1 hour ago, Clint Buzzkill said:

What makes you think Goodwin is so good?

I'm genuinely interested.

Must admit the OP's comment about Goodwin also piqued my interest.

8 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

I agree with the views that Northey got the best out of some very workmanlike players and also that 1990 was an opportunity wasted. Against WC we were just never on our game. But the biggest waste of all was 1994 when Balme had us overusing the ball with a terrible game style and a great team ended up in 7th place. We then thrashed Carlton who were 1or 2 as I remember. We had the Febeys, ,Schwarz,Lyon, Tingay, Neitz and so many others, all at the top of their game and injury-free. But because of our ladder position we ended up having to play WC in Perth.....

The greatest waste ever.

Don't forget Jakovich.

But in Balme's defense he rarely had all of the aforementioned on the field at once. When he did we were unstoppable. Injuries and poor player management defined Balme's regime.

3 hours ago, Clint Buzzkill said:

What makes you think Goodwin is so good?

I'm genuinely interested.

That's a story for another thread Clint, but FWIW it's the "Goodwin era" and I think the current list quality is a big part of my optimism.

Here's the Northey 1988 GF team, I've added Steven O'Dwyer who was suspended in the PF for not even touching Steve Da Rui and it happened "right in front of me".  He won the B&F that year and everyone walked taller when he was playing.  Hawthorn still would have beaten us but it would have been a different match if Strawbs played.   The team is pretty evenly strong across all lines and I think it stacks up well against the 2000 side below.

B:    9 Alan Johnson    10 Danny Hughes    14 Rod Grinter
HB:    34 Stephen Newport    28 Jamie Duursma    17 Brett Lovett
?  12 Todd Viney    7 Brian Wilson    8 Graeme Yeats
HF:    3 Garry Lyon    5 Earl Spalding    15 David Williams
F:    11 Jim Stynes    27 Sean Wight    45 Ricky Jackson
Foll:    1 Steven O'Dwyer    16 Andy Lovell    33 Greg Healy (c)
Int:    37 David Flintoff    21 Steven Febey    18 Steven Stretch
Coach:    John Northey

Here's the Daniher 2000 GF team.  That forward line is mighty potent, but the backline and midfield are a bit pedestrian.

B:    26 Daniel Ward    27 Anthony Ingerson    44 Alistair Nicholson
HB:    42 Peter Walsh    28 Matthew Collins    21 Steven Febey
?  13 Adem Yze    22 Shane Woewodin    35 Anthony McDonald
HF:    18 Brad Green    5 David Schwarz    7 Stephen Powell
F:    24 Russell Robertson    9 David Neitz (c)    33 Jeff Farmer
Foll:    34 Jeff White    43 Guy Rigoni    36 Andrew Leoncelli
Int:    4 Brent Grgic    16 Travis Johnstone    47 Ben Beams  46 Troy Simmonds        
Coach:    Neale Daniher

I think our current list is very competitive with these two lists.

2 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

Here's the Daniher 2000 GF team.  That forward line is mighty potent, but the backline and midfield are a bit pedestrian.

B:    26 Daniel Ward    27 Anthony Ingerson    44 Alistair Nicholson
HB:    42 Peter Walsh    28 Matthew Collins    21 Steven Febey
?  13 Adem Yze    22 Shane Woewodin    35 Anthony McDonald
HF:    18 Brad Green    5 David Schwarz    7 Stephen Powell
F:    24 Russell Robertson    9 David Neitz (c)    33 Jeff Farmer
Foll:    34 Jeff White    43 Guy Rigoni    36 Andrew Leoncelli
Int:    4 Brent Grgic    16 Travis Johnstone    47 Ben Beams  46 Troy Simmonds        
Coach:    Neale Daniher

I think our current list is very competitive with these two lists.

I had totally forgotten Grgic played in that Grand Final.

On 1/8/2020 at 2:18 PM, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Northey era > Daniher era.

The only metric I'm interested in is the win-loss stat and Northey beat Daniher 53.8% to 48.4%.

Plus, Northey has been the only coach post 1964 to deliver us 3 finals wins in the one finals series. Who can guess which year that was?

Goodwin is on 46.4% after his disastrous 2019.

1988. Gf year

1 minute ago, Demon17 said:

1988. Gf year

Correct.

3 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

That's a story for another thread Clint, but FWIW it's the "Goodwin era" and I think the current list quality is a big part of my optimism.

Here's the Northey 1988 GF team, I've added Steven O'Dwyer who was suspended in the PF for not even touching Steve Da Rui and it happened "right in front of me".  He won the B&F that year and everyone walked taller when he was playing.  Hawthorn still would have beaten us but it would have been a different match if Strawbs played.   The team is pretty evenly strong across all lines and I think it stacks up well against the 2000 side below.

B:    9 Alan Johnson    10 Danny Hughes    14 Rod Grinter
HB:    34 Stephen Newport    28 Jamie Duursma    17 Brett Lovett
?  12 Todd Viney    7 Brian Wilson    8 Graeme Yeats
HF:    3 Garry Lyon    5 Earl Spalding    15 David Williams
F:    11 Jim Stynes    27 Sean Wight    45 Ricky Jackson
Foll:    1 Steven O'Dwyer    16 Andy Lovell    33 Greg Healy (c)
Int:    37 David Flintoff    21 Steven Febey    18 Steven Stretch
Coach:    John Northey

Here's the Daniher 2000 GF team.  That forward line is mighty potent, but the backline and midfield are a bit pedestrian.

B:    26 Daniel Ward    27 Anthony Ingerson    44 Alistair Nicholson
HB:    42 Peter Walsh    28 Matthew Collins    21 Steven Febey
?  13 Adem Yze    22 Shane Woewodin    35 Anthony McDonald
HF:    18 Brad Green    5 David Schwarz    7 Stephen Powell
F:    24 Russell Robertson    9 David Neitz (c)    33 Jeff Farmer
Foll:    34 Jeff White    43 Guy Rigoni    36 Andrew Leoncelli
Int:    4 Brent Grgic    16 Travis Johnstone    47 Ben Beams  46 Troy Simmonds        
Coach:    Neale Daniher

I think our current list is very competitive with these two lists.

O dwyer wasnt in team . Suspended. Nevertheless i reckon the 88 team had more class and A graders. Northey a superior coach for consistency of effort 

On 1/8/2020 at 2:28 PM, Diamond_Jim said:

The Northey era was probably the more enjoyable. I will never forget the open door policy to the change rooms that allowed you to go along and listen to Swoop rouse the players. The first two 87 finals and the unforgettable prelim at Waverley can never be forgotten.

Daniher's era suffered from the up down form of the team. Just our luck to come up against the most successful one year team in Essendon in 2000. Many here blame Daniher for the subsequent collapse that we are really yet to emerge from as a club. Harsh.. maybe... but he did provide some great years unlike after he left.

Not really. Very flaky finals performances after 2000. 

Flakiness was never an issue with northey teams. 

I unfortunately don't go as far back (in AFL life) as the Northey years.

But what also strikes me about the Daniher years is that we had many 'senior' players who would only produce the occasional really grand season and then just be good the rest of the time.

Some of that was just plain old injury, some of that seemed to be a bit of self-satisfaction.  I'm not going to try to judge too much, i just find it an interesting pattern.

Hmm, off the top of my head, Johnstone is the poster boy for it.  And then quite a few definitely good players - but the question is, if they had strung together the form consistently could they have been 'great' and could the team have jumped an important step further?

Johnstone, White, Woewodin, Robertson, Rivers, Leoncelli, Mclean, Bizzell, Bruce, even Green and McDonald who only really consolidated late in or after the Daniher period.

A dozen players bobbing up like whack-a-mole rather than being a potent, consistent core to keep turning over the wins column and provide a structure and leadership for new kids to develop in.

It is clearly still a pattern and is why I prize the consistency of the likes of Gawn, Oliver and Harmes, and why I desperately long for a few nice clean preseasons for important players who I feel would be consistent if injury let them, like May, T.Mc, Melksham, and Viney.

 

3 hours ago, Demon17 said:

O dwyer wasnt in team . Suspended. Nevertheless i reckon the 88 team had more class and A graders. Northey a superior coach for consistency of effort 

My guess is readin' isn't one of your strong points.

Even though we got knocked out in the semi final prior to the preliminary final in 2002, I reckon it was one of the most enjoyable seasons I’ve watched in my time supporting the club.

We just kept coming from behind in the last quarter to overrun teams including beating the Lions at the Gabba that year (who were unstoppable). I seem also to recall cracking wins against North and Carlton that year when we were well behind at three quarter time, but you just knew we would win. And we did.

The loss to the Crows in the semi final was just heart-breaking. But that season, following an ordinary 2001, represented the best of Daniher’s attacking game style IMO. I reckon Fagan had a big hand in it too.

As an aside, I’d really like to see Daniher inducted into the MFC’s Hall of Fame. IMO he needs to be acknowledged during his remaining time on this planet.

If there is merit in this (and it is achievable and others agree), is there any chance we can start a petition here (or something like that)?

 

One aspect of the Daniher/Northey eras and to a lesser extent now with Goodwin is that when on the cusp of tangible success and it appears achievable we get stage fright and exit ingloriously. I can’t recall any of our finals exits with the exception of the elimination final in 2004 against Essendon since 1987 that were fought out to the finish or we being unlucky. We tend to fold like a cheap suit and get tossed out in an ugly manner. 

Edited January 10, 20205 yr by america de cali

On 1/8/2020 at 1:48 PM, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Northey era > Daniher era.

The only metric I'm interested in is the win-loss stat and Northey beat Daniher 53.8% to 48.4%.

Plus, Northey has been the only coach post 1964 to deliver us 3 finals wins in the one finals series. Who can guess which year that was?

Goodwin is on 46.4% after his disastrous 2019.

1988

87 & 88 was an exciting time for the club in its quest for a premiership post 64.

amazing.

Both Northey & Daniher great coaches in their own right & put the MFC back on the map during their tenure at the club. Not sure how Goodwin is even talked about in the same breath as these greatly respected & proven coaches.

Northey the pick for me purely & simply because of the pure excitement & public impact on a club that was starved of success for 23 years.

Northey had 7 years & Daniher had 10 years.

SG success as a coach will be measured after another 2 or 3 years I would have thought.

A common line through this thread seems to be that the list which Northey had was not as good as that enjoyed by Daniher. With this I tend to agree.

On the Goodwin note I think short of a figurehead full forward (Neitz) the present list largely rivals that which Daniher had. He has it all ahead of him in the next six to twelve months. The measure of a good coach is of course to get more out of the combined unit than each individual could contribute if acting alone. Northey certainly did that...

Definitely Northey. We had so many great wins against tough opposition. Daniher era we lost just about every time we played tough opposition.

As our most successful coach since Norm Smith I think it would be fitting if Swooper was made a life member at the club.  He coached 167 games for 90 wins and five finals series including our first in 24 years, as well as 2 night flags when that was actually a real competition.  I know 10 years service is the mark, although Brian Wilson was admitted on the basis of 150 games played after falling short of the 10 years service.  I think Swooper's contribution was enormous and it'd be nice to see him acknowledged now he's well into his mid-late seventies.

Swooper Coached a Tough Side. Really tough. We lacked a little Polish and needed a Gun CHF as opposed to a good one. 
 

The Reverend Sides had more skill but the roller coaster ? years were infuriating 

1990 we shoulda

1998 we shoulda

1988 lucky to make The GF but we did it from 5th, dropped games at critical times. 
 

2000 we were a dam good side, but Essendrug were 10x better all season

2002 we were far too loose in defence, good to watch, but Brisbane would have smashed us up on GF day

2004 was another year we coulda, but we choked after being top of the ladder in Round 18. 5 straight losses....

Leadership is critical, throughout the whole Club, and it has let us down so often

Edited January 10, 20205 yr by Sir Why You Little

I reckon 98 was a lost opportunity. Those 2 finals against stkilda and adelaide were awesome. Unfortunately nth got us in the prelim. 

Having just finished regarding Neale's book it's interesting to read when he talks about the 2000 gf & how that night at the function he saw the players standing around and having a laugh and he thought you have just lost a grand final, how could you not be angry, disappointed or even sad because he was. He wanted the players to be hurting because he was. He then mentioned how we haven't made a gf since. 

It's what we say about our club. They either get caught up in the hype, don't learn from losses, fall into the media trap of believing there great or just expect things will happen. 

They are a frustrating club to watch but you know what each year I renew my membership and show up to the games. One day it will click for us. 

On 1/9/2020 at 8:17 PM, Fifty-5 said:

My guess is readin' isn't one of your strong points.

Good Point.  Missed that lengthy preamble.

 

So you put him in the team, even though he wasn't selected, because...

Anyway, I must admit also at the game the round arm looked serious to me at the time and started a blue from memory so interesting to hear that It may well have been soft.

Strawbs did seem confident when coming off after the game that he would be exonerated. This was reflected by comments to me from his father whom I worked with at the time.

hard done by is the family version.

Go Dees

59 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

Good Point.  Missed that lengthy preamble.

 

So you put him in the team, even though he wasn't selected, because...

... era.

On 1/8/2020 at 1:42 PM, Swooper1987 said:

I was fortunate enough to witness the stirring run home in 1987 - 6 in a row and relying on others to lose.  Northey was a terrific coach who extracted everything from his group. 1990 we were the best team in the comp but unfortunately we had a shocker against North and lost by 127 points which cost us percentage and the double chance.  We won 16 games and finished 4th.  We beat top side Essendon twice including at Windy Hill and beat Hawthorn in consecutive weeks including the Elimination Final to end their run of consecutive GF's which stretched from 1983-89. We were the only team that could really trouble Collingwood - we had knocked them out of the 1988 and 89 finals series- yet inexplicably got rolled by WC at Waverley in the first semi.  There went Northey's best hope of landing us a flag

 

We also beat west coast twice in 1990. The Pies beat us in H&A but we had knocked them out of the finals in 88 and 89 and our September record against them overall means we would've had a chance. Truly the one that got away

On 1/10/2020 at 12:23 PM, Tony Tea said:

Definitely Northey. We had so many great wins against tough opposition. Daniher era we lost just about every time we played tough opposition.

The teams Northey coached had far more grit.  They would fight out tough contests with the best of them.  They could have used a tad more class across the field,  but they were tough honest sides full of character and ability.

 IMO, they would have torn strips off the sides Robbo played in.

Sean Wight would have licked his lips with Robbo,  and SFebey would have taken good care of Yze.

Who else.?

On 1/9/2020 at 5:03 PM, Demon17 said:

Not really. Very flaky finals performances after 2000. 

Flakiness was never an issue with northey teams. 

Debatable.
87' premlim.
22pts up at 3/4 time and blew it with poor kicking.
Why we let Northey and Spalding walk after is beyond me.

And for what it's worth.
The Daniher years were a disgrace for the clubs flakiness.
Even in the up years they would look unbeatable for a block of games and then lose blocks of games.
They'd either come out firing early in the season and then collapse or were poor early season and made late runs to fall into the finals.
The 2002 semi final against Adelaide was Melbourne in a nutshell.
Gave adelaide and 8goal head start in the 1st qr.
Come storming back in the 2nd and 3rd playing some of the best footy I've seen us play and then just stopping dead in the last.

Don't get me started on the down years.

 

 

Edited February 21, 20205 yr by Fork 'em

On 1/9/2020 at 4:03 PM, Demon17 said:

Not really. Very flaky finals performances after 2000. 

Flakiness was never an issue with northey teams. 

Oh yes it was - every single year we would lose a string of games and lose games to bottom 9 teams that cost us the double chance in finals.