Preseason Training 2020

[Its Time for Another 4,303]

Only 9 sleeps to go until the best DL pre season training threads recommence. Can’t wait. Life’s been so meaningless since the last ones. 
Happy New Year everyone. 2020’s going to be a ripper. Strap in my fellow long sufferers. It’s about bl$&dy Time from It’s Time. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Demonland
Changed Thread Title so as not to confuse with The official first training thread when they resume.

[Damo 3,445]

I remember this time last year. I could not believe how many great players we had to choose a best 22 from. My hopes were slowly and excruciatingly dashed when it started to become apparent in late January and early February that those players who we were assured were merely a week away from full training, were in actual fact out for months. And months. Not a peep from the club, and that hurt too.

Sorry to be a downer, I am still getting over it. Id prefer to wrap all our freshly minted '20 team all up in cotton wool till February...

but then Id miss the training reports.

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

22 hours ago, Damo said:

I remember this time last year. I could not believe how many great players we had to choose a best 22 from. My hopes were slowly and excruciatingly dashed when it started to become apparent in late January and early February that those players who we were assured were merely a week away from full training, were in actual fact out for months. And months. Not a peep from the club, and that hurt too.

Sorry to be a downer, I am still getting over it. Id prefer to wrap all our freshly minted '20 team all up in cotton wool till February...

but then Id miss the training reports.

Rather over dramatic, you cant help injury to players

Most players were ready to go 1st round, physically, mentslly another different matter

[Ethan Tremblay 31,271]

7 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Rather over dramatic, you cant help injury to players

Most players were ready to go 1st round, physically, mentslly another different matter

[Damo 3,445]

25 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Rather over dramatic, you cant help injury to players

Most players were ready to go 1st round, physically, mentslly another different matter

I prefer to believe your reports at the time were trying to protect the players and very glass half full rather than consciously telling porkies. It was a pity we didn't have many other reports coming through and many here, including me loved the optimism. Your heart is in the right place.

Go Dees!

[Slartibartfast 18,039]

4 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Rather over dramatic, you cant help injury to players

Most players were ready to go 1st round, physically, mentslly another different matter

Saty they weren't ready physically.  If what you're suggesting is right nobody would consider practicing.  Tennis players, golfers, cricketers and the list goes on. They'd do a few running and gym sessions and not lift a bat, racket or club.  We all know that's not the case.

They practice what they do before a game. They hit ball after ball after ball

This is important in an individual sport but doubly so in a team sport because not only do you have the individual skills that need honing you have a game plan to mesh with 21 other players that needs hours of practice.

In 2019 we didn't have that and it showed in every facet of our game.  People often use Oliver as an example of someone who "didn't need a preseason to have a good season".  Rubbish.  2019 was a shadow of his 2018 and if your assertion is correct it should have been better given his age and the natural progression that should have taken place.

People are focusing on the injury toll but it's the preseason.  The skills practice so many missed out on.  The game plan execution so many missed out on.  The match fitness so many missed out on.

It's been reported that the PA players went to the three quarter time huddle knowing we were shot physically.  All they had to do was keep running.  They did and they won easily despite the game being in the balance at that point.

We weren't physically ready and we were not "ready to go".  It's quite simple really.

[binman 44,689]

4 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

Most players were ready to go 1st round, physically, mentslly another different matter

For all the reasons bb lists this comment is palpable nonsense, on two levels.

One being that it is an incontrovertible fact most players were not physically ready to go round one. Indeed arguably most never reached optimal fitness levels.

Two it is supposition on your part that most players were not mentally ready. It may well be true of some players and there have been some comments from mfc people implying that (e.g. lewis), but nonetheless it is supposition.

I am assuming you keep repeating this nonsense to create some drama. But perhaps not. Maybe you actually believe it to be true, in spite of all the contrary evidence and the statements from the club.

I'm not sure which of these two scenarios is stranger to be honest.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

[buck_nekkid 6,082]

We put out a team that beat the pies in the first pre season game.  Dees were a ‘buy’!  We started the season and the complete lack of physical and mental preparation became apparent.

 We may have had 22 fit players to put on the park, but they had almost zero preparation in the systems.  The so called ‘connection’ didnt emerge for the whole season.  So they may have been ‘physically ready’ (they could get out there), but they had no systems training, no endurance to run out matches, and pretty quickly zero confidence.

Now turn the calendar over to 2020.  We have already had most of the team in main training, handling footballs and running match-valid drills.  Before Christmas!  Now I am optimistic!

[tiers 2,875]

Of all the features that are common to good teams, it is games played together as a group that is most important.

Aerobic fitness and mental strength can be trained into the players but the intuitive and instinctive responses to team mates' play counts for at least as much if not more and can only be developed by training and playing together as a group for an extended period.

Pre season 2019 did not allow this to happen and the team suffered. Pre season 2020 is looking much better.

2020

Go dees.

 

 

[Its Time for Another 4,303]

6 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Rather over dramatic, you cant help injury to players

Most players were ready to go 1st round, physically, mentslly another different matter

Saty always thankful for your training reports but this is not your finest work. 

Given the overwhelming amount of detail the Club (President, Head of football, Coach, conditioning staff etc etc etc) provided about how unready physically the players were this is a bizarre post. It's worse than that, it's actually insulting the players to ignore everything the Club has said about the impact of physical injuries and suggest it was a mental problem. Disrespects the effort players who missed a pre season put in to nevertheless do their gut busting best. 

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

38 minutes ago, It's Time said:

Saty always thankful for your training reports but this is not your finest work. 

Given the overwhelming amount of detail the Club (President, Head of football, Coach, conditioning staff etc etc etc) provided about how unready physically the players were this is a bizarre post. It's worse than that, it's actually insulting the players to ignore everything the Club has said about the impact of physical injuries and suggest it was a mental problem. Disrespects the effort players who missed a pre season put in to nevertheless do their gut busting best. 

I hardly missed a pre season session, most of the ops were upper body, so the running, aerobic fitness didn't lack

Towards the end of pre season most were back in the main group and looking good

My opinion, the lack of a 'proper' preseason became an excuse that got repeated so often, it became fact, and an out for a non.performing player

Other 'reporters' would have reported exactly the same thing,  apart from the occasional skill error to give Demonland something to hang their hat on

My opinion the issue was mental and too many voices and messages trying to right the ship

Edited January 2, 2020 by Satyriconhome

[buck_nekkid 6,082]

We put out a team that beat the pies in the first pre season game.  Dees were a ‘buy’!  We started the season and the complete lack of physical and mental preparation became apparent.

 We may have had 22 fit players to put on the park, but they had almost zero preparation in the systems.  The so called ‘connection’ didnt emerge for the whole season.  So they may have been ‘physically ready’ (they could get out there), but they had no systems training, no endurance to run out matches, and pretty quickly zero confidence.

Now turn the calendar over to 2020.  We have already had most of the team in main training, handling footballs and running match-valid drills.

[Watson11 2,249]

4 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I hardly missed a pre season session, most of the ops were upper body, so the running, aerobic fitness didn't lack

Towards the end of pre season most were back in the main group and looking good

My opinion, the lack of a 'proper' preseason became an excuse that got repeated so often, it became fact, and an out for a non.performing player

Other 'reporters' would have reported exactly the same thing,  apart from the occasional skill error to give Demonland something to hang their hat on

My opinion the issue was mental and too many voices and messages trying to right the ship

At the forum, they had all the GPS stats up and only 2 players did more than 50% of the loads required last preseason. Max was the highest, at 80% from memory.  The issue was only mental to the extent that players quickly had no confidence in anything due to their poor conditioning.
 

[FireInTheBennelly 4,104]

How in hell are we having this discussion again?

[McQueen 17,867]

Sticks his chin out...

[Salems Lot 2,691]

My neice bumped into Milky in Dromana looking fit and healthy on NY Day.  She left him to his parenting duties.

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

12 hours ago, Watson11 said:

At the forum, they had all the GPS stats up and only 2 players did more than 50% of the loads required last preseason. Max was the highest, at 80% from memory.  The issue was only mental to the extent that players quickly had no confidence in anything due to their poor conditioning.
 

You mean players like Harmes and Oliver who came in top 5 of B&F, hence why I formed my opinion, obviously their confidence didn't drop

Ask the same question again, if we have a disappointing 2020, what will be the reason

49 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Sticks his chin out...

Has a different opinion

Notice you still haven't replied to my post in other thread, would be interested in your opinion 

[Demons1858 1,793]

17 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I hardly missed a pre season session, most of the ops were upper body, so the running, aerobic fitness didn't lack

Towards the end of pre season most were back in the main group and looking good

My opinion, the lack of a 'proper' preseason became an excuse that got repeated so often, it became fact, and an out for a non.performing player

Other 'reporters' would have reported exactly the same thing,  apart from the occasional skill error to give Demonland something to hang their hat on

My opinion the issue was mental and too many voices and messages trying to right the ship

rubbish, l went to training and quickly realised we would not achieve the heights of 2018 after a couple of sessions and posted a few times accordingly. all you need to do is count the number of starting 22 players doing match simulation / match practice to realise we were stuffed. would be great if that stat was/is in each of our training reports

Edited January 3, 2020 by Demons1858

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,354]

17 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

My opinion, the lack of a 'proper' preseason became an excuse that got repeated so often, it became fact, and an out for a non.performing player

 

I'm not sure if you can blame 2019 on mental issues as you've stated above but this sentence I've quoted carries some merit. It seems to me that the club has been very aggressive in using injuries and an interrupted pre season as the sole reason we had a garbage 5 win season. And keep in mind we had a full complement of mids all year - supposedly our strongest department.

I hope the club has identified other issues that went wrong as it can't be solely injuries/surgeries.

I can't accept the fact that ONLY injuries/surgeries were the reason we lost 9 more home and away games in 2019 compared to 2018, and got schooled by mediocre mid-low table sides such as St Kilda and Sydney on our home turf.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Bring-Back-Powell

[binman 44,689]

12 hours ago, Watson11 said:

At the forum, they had all the GPS stats up and only 2 players did more than 50% of the loads required last preseason. Max was the highest, at 80% from memory.  The issue was only mental to the extent that players quickly had no confidence in anything due to their poor conditioning.
 

That's extraordinary really.

I have been saying for years that the biggest determinant for success in the AFL is a strong preseason preparing the whole team properly in terms of the required fitness and injury (which includes factors such as who is injured, when they are injured, how long they are out  how long to get back to fitness etc etc).

This has never been more the case than now.

The silly soldier out, soldier in, never blame injury mantra is a weird cultural thing where real men are stoic and teams overcome injury with sheer mental strength. Stupid.

The bombers are having a horror run this preseason with many players rehabbing from surgery and injury. Watch them struggle.

When they do It is worth noting that their numbers in rehab and missing sessions is not even in the same ball park numbers wise as what we experienced in the 2019 preseason.

 

[McQueen 17,867]

20 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

You mean players like Harmes and Oliver who came in top 5 of B&F, hence why I formed my opinion, obviously their confidence didn't drop

Ask the same question again, if we have a disappointing 2020, what will be the reason

Has a different opinion

Notice you still haven't replied to my post in other thread, would be interested in your opinion 

Which ones that?

[Its Time for Another 4,303]

19 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I hardly missed a pre season session, most of the ops were upper body, so the running, aerobic fitness didn't lack

Towards the end of pre season most were back in the main group and looking good

My opinion, the lack of a 'proper' preseason became an excuse that got repeated so often, it became fact, and an out for a non.performing player

Other 'reporters' would have reported exactly the same thing,  apart from the occasional skill error to give Demonland something to hang their hat on

My opinion the issue was mental and too many voices and messages trying to right the ship

We'll have to agree to disagree.

You're forgetting Jones and Viney didn't train in the main group at all and only played in one Casey practice game before playing round 1. Clarry from memory didn't join main group training until March. It was pretty clear he was missing Goody's keyword for 2020, "connection" which was to be expected. Coming in the top 5 B & F when you're in the engine room of a decimated team isn't that relevant. To suggest all you have to do is run laps and you are ready to go is to suggest that missing all the pre season training doesn't make any difference. Clearly that's nonsense.

Brayshaw missed main group training from pre Christmas to well into Feb. Tracc also carried injuries and missed a lot of the main group training and could only run slow laps. That's basically the engine room. Hats off to Harmes but he was back into main group training much earlier than the others and maybe his injuries didn't restrict his running like it did the others. That's nearly the whole engine room. Don't know which preseason you were watching where they were all ready to go round 1.

 

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,339]

5 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

You mean players like Harmes and Oliver who came in top 5 of B&F, hence why I formed my opinion, obviously their confidence didn't drop

Ask the same question again, if we have a disappointing 2020, what will be the reason

Has a different opinion

Notice you still haven't replied to my post in other thread, would be interested in your opinion 

Even in the worst year some one has to finish in the top 5 spots of a B&F, I would suggest the votes they polled in the B&F is a better indication as to their season performance.

Oliver polled 464 votes in 2019 compared to 595 in 2018.

Harmes similarly 319 (2019) and 468 (2018).

Even allowing for additional votes for finals this is a significant reduction in the impact of their season according to those coaches who vote.

Time to let it go and concede that as reported everywhere and as shown by our performances our players were significantly impacted by reduced preseasons.

 

[Neil Crompton 5,780]

15 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

How in hell are we having this discussion again?

Couldn’t agree more.

I have no problem with posters wanting to criticise the 2019 pre and in-season, but for f sake, do it in a separate thread, where you can sprout whatever history you want. Personally, I think 2019 has been done to death - as has the last 55 years - but if you think more needs to be said and argued about, be a bit considerate and establish your own “shaking your fist at clouds” thread or “lessons to be learnt” thread.

As far as i’m concerned, 2019 is gone and no amount of arguing will change that. I am only interested in 2020, and would prefer current threads to be just that - current. 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

16 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

How in hell are we having this discussion again?

We will keep having this discussion in its various permutations until something more dramatic overtakes it and pushes the trauma of 2019 into the background.

Wins, wins and more wins in 2020 should do the trick. (And then some more wins. GO DEMONS!!!)