On 25/07/2024 at 06:28, Moonshadow said:

Even this year the flag is there for the taking.

 

You'll start to see a breakaway now. Any team with a % of <108% is imo out of the running and making up the numbers. With the exception of maybe Hawthorn's whose percentage since Round 6 is 118%. 

Who’s responsible for the trades which as all of them weren’t getting games at their former clubs and can’t get games in our team yet we lose Jordan & Harmes  how is this list improvement our list & not to mention Grundy 

 

Who’s responsible for the trades which as all of them weren’t getting games at their former clubs and can’t get games in our team yet we lose Jordan & Harmes  how is this list improvement our list & not to mention Grundy 

 

  On 25/07/2024 at 09:54, kozzyisalegend said:

Hawthorn have recruited massimo dambrisio, Jack ginnivan and mabior chol. All very good players who were cheap, were playing vfl and were up for grabs. The failure to talk to them is a disgrace 

Yes, the Hawks refuse to lie down, it makes me ill, i have seen them do it 3-4 times since 1971

If they get a taste of Finals this year, they will monster teams next year 

  On 25/07/2024 at 09:54, kozzyisalegend said:

The failure to talk to them is a disgrace 

You don't know that mfc didn't talk to them

  On 25/07/2024 at 10:24, Demonsone said:

Who’s responsible for the trades which as all of them weren’t getting games at their former clubs and can’t get games in our team yet we lose Jordan & Harmes  how is this list improvement our list & not to mention Grundy 

  On 25/07/2024 at 07:11, Jibroni said:

 

- We tried with Grundy but apart from Meek or Goldstein I dont know who else was available?

- We have drafted Jefferson but there are no Tom Lynch's available atm.

- Apart from Billings and Fullarton most of our trades have provided a net positive (ie: Langdon, Tomlinson, Ben Brown).

Come on, man!

- we we went all chips in on Grundy "We see 4 flags ahead of us" was what he was told! Had we thrown $600-700k plus on a key forward instead of a non-forward ruck, we migh've got more bites. We were sitting in the window, after all. Top clubs get what they want if they go hard enough... Geelong, Bris, Coll, Richmond have recruited key forwards

- there are a number of key forwards who mightve been tempted with the Grundy money. Many re-signed at their clubs between 2021-24, but our tunnel vision of trying to turn rucks and key backs into forwards has missed the point

- Dunstan, Billings, Grundy, Hunter, Fullerton, Schache, McAdam, Majak Daw, Marty Hore have all not succeeded and came from other clubs. I know, I know, "We have to have depth players!"

In short, our recruitment to fix needs has been bitterly inadequate. We've drafted some good long term players, Windsor, McVee, JvR, but trading has been poor since 2021.

  On 25/07/2024 at 08:01, Sir Why You Little said:

Signing Grundy for 4 years and then giving up after 6 months. 

Josh Schache and Tom Fullarton as replacements 

billings for Jordan 

Letting go of Bedford…. (I was angry at the time, i knew he would become an very good player)

I think our trading since the Flag has been a big F

Sorry but this post is ridiculous and has been laid out numerous times before

1. Jordon was a free agent. It was not a 'swap' per se. Billings was available and was cheap. Who else would you have got?

2. We did not let Bedford go. He was offered a 2 year deal I recall and took 3 from the Giants with guaranteed game time

3. Schache and Fullarton have been failures but this is where its a lazy argument. Name me the payers that you would have been able to draft?

4. I agree with you on Grundy

  On 25/07/2024 at 11:09, jnrmac said:

1. Jordon was a free agent. It was not a 'swap' per se. Billings was available and was cheap. Who else would you have got?

2. We did not let Bedford go. He was offered a 2 year deal I recall and took 3 from the Giants with guaranteed game time

I hope @Demonsone is watching.  

  On 25/07/2024 at 10:15, praha said:

You'll start to see a breakaway now. Any team with a % of <108% is imo out of the running and making up the numbers. With the exception of maybe Hawthorn's whose percentage since Round 6 is 118%. 

Yes, the classically called '8 point' games will start exacting their toll from here on.

As well there is little point falling in over the line into the eight if you've spent all the 'reserves'  at hand.  Not the time of year to be running on fumes or buggered legs. These teams are quickly put to the sword.

Id rather we we're starting on 25 now than trying to prove anything else in 24.

Not put cue in rack... just adjust the focus.

I think we have to a degree...with some encouraging results. We need to keep going down this path.

  On 25/07/2024 at 10:58, Moonshadow said:

Come on, man!

- we we went all chips in on Grundy "We see 4 flags ahead of us" was what he was told! Had we thrown $600-700k plus on a key forward instead of a non-forward ruck, we migh've got more bites. We were sitting in the window, after all. Top clubs get what they want if they go hard enough... Geelong, Bris, Coll, Richmond have recruited key forwards

- there are a number of key forwards who mightve been tempted with the Grundy money. Many re-signed at their clubs between 2021-24, but our tunnel vision of trying to turn rucks and key backs into forwards has missed the point

- Dunstan, Billings, Grundy, Hunter, Fullerton, Schache, McAdam, Majak Daw, Marty Hore have all not succeeded and came from other clubs. I know, I know, "We have to have depth players!"

In short, our recruitment to fix needs has been bitterly inadequate. We've drafted some good long term players, Windsor, McVee, JvR, but trading has been poor since 2021.

 

I forgot McAdam but Schache, Daw and Dunstan were essentially free hits. I wish we had Jordan and Bedford but they chose to move on.

The only players traded in 2022 they could have been useful were Lobb or Meek; we went for Grundy instead which few complained about at the time. 

We tried for Harley Reid last year but apart from Koschitzke or Ratugolea I cant think of a player available that would significantly improve the list?

 

Edited July 25, 2024Jul 25 by Jibroni

  On 25/07/2024 at 11:09, jnrmac said:

Sorry but this post is ridiculous and has been laid out numerous times before

1. Jordon was a free agent. It was not a 'swap' per se. Billings was available and was cheap. Who else would you have got?

2. We did not let Bedford go. He was offered a 2 year deal I recall and took 3 from the Giants with guaranteed game time

3. Schache and Fullarton have been failures but this is where its a lazy argument. Name me the payers that you would have been able to draft?

4. I agree with you on Grundy

Jordan should have been given time on the ground in the last quarter of the GF. If that had happened, he may have wanted to stay. 
Bedford deserved more game time and didn’t get it, which I found very frustrating, i don’t blame him for leaving, but he is a much better option than Laurie who plays a similar role. 
Schache and Fullarton are self explaining, were they the only options?

I fully understand tall Players are hard to find, but how hard did we look? Are we lacking staff to find replacements? 
But these 2 guys have sadly been a bust, it’s not lazy to discuss that, it’s just a fact 

Our Drafting has been excellent, but not so Trading. 
I am glad somebody agrees with me about Grundy. 
My opinion is that if a player signs a deal for x amount of years they should have to see out 50% of that contract before they can request a trade. 
It’s too easy to just back out of a signed deal. 
Sydney are top of the ladder & Grundy has been a big part of it, I don’t blame Grundy, but the MFC got rolled over

You cannot say that we have traded well over the last 3-4 years, other Clubs have won the deals

  On 25/07/2024 at 11:18, Jibroni said:

 

I forgot McAdam but Schache, Daw and Dunstan were essentially free hits. I wish we had Jordan and Bedford but they chose to move on.

The only players traded in 2022 they could have been useful were Lobb or Meek; we went for Grundy instead which few complained about at the time. 

We tried for Harley Reid last year but apart from Koschitzke or Ratugolea I cant think of a player available that would significantly improve the list?

 

These are excuses.

We had gaps that needed to be filled. To say there was no one available when there are 17 other clubs out there is a cop out

Hawks, Bombers and Swans were each able to grab a bunch of players from other clubs and turn them into very solid players. Some cost them a fair amount, many came cheap. We watched.

Edited July 25, 2024Jul 25 by Moonshadow

  On 25/07/2024 at 10:58, Moonshadow said:

Come on, man!

- we we went all chips in on Grundy "We see 4 flags ahead of us" was what he was told! Had we thrown $600-700k plus on a key forward instead of a non-forward ruck, we migh've got more bites. We were sitting in the window, after all. Top clubs get what they want if they go hard enough... Geelong, Bris, Coll, Richmond have recruited key forwards

- there are a number of key forwards who mightve been tempted with the Grundy money. Many re-signed at their clubs between 2021-24, but our tunnel vision of trying to turn rucks and key backs into forwards has missed the point

- Dunstan, Billings, Grundy, Hunter, Fullerton, Schache, McAdam, Majak Daw, Marty Hore have all not succeeded and came from other clubs. I know, I know, "We have to have depth players!"

In short, our recruitment to fix needs has been bitterly inadequate. We've drafted some good long term players, Windsor, McVee, JvR, but trading has been poor since 2021.

Never a truer post posted...

Honestly. When will this club wake up and realise that the last few years have been abject failures?!?!?! The recruiting has been nothing short of disgraceful. You could also argue that the Bowey/Laurie draft has not delivered. So other than some good drafting, we have been woeful.

This list deserved better management

I get that Tim Lambs job isn’t easy. Just look at the two players we are currently being linked too. Houston and Isaac Cumming. Both would fill a need for us but it’s easy to make a case against both of them. 
Houston could be seen as too expensive given his age and  we have other spots to fill. 
Cumming has had 3 soft tissues injuries this year and will miss the rest of the home and away season. If we were to trade for him and he’s often injured then Tim Lamb screwed up again. If he goes somewhere else and plays most game then Tim also got it wrong. Hard to win.
 

But to win premierships you need to be get you recruitment right the majority of the time. We haven’t done that over the past few years and we can’t afford to get it wrong any longer.

@Moonshadow hits the nail on the head.

Couldn't help but think about this yet again last night. And before I get shot down, please don't talk about 'effort'. The club's "we fought to the end" social media post at FT just about sums us up. It's picking and choosing - that isn't sustained or consistent, 4 qtrs of effort, as that would suggest we fought the whole game. We didn't.

Time to actually get serious - which I give the club credit for doing in their pursuit of May and Lever. Hibberd was also a fine recruit. Melksham has also turned out to be excellent - but apart from that, we have been devoid of any astute recruiting. It's time to make the hard calls.

Not up to it:
- Schache

- McAdam

- Billings 

- Laurie

 

Hasn't come on:

- Bowey (some injuries, yes)

- Sparrow (too one dimensional)

- Chandler (signs a new deal and then shows flashes/hasn't played well since).

 

Trade potential:

- Salem (thanks for your wonderful service and a flag, but injuries and health have taken over)

- Fritsch (rarely applies pressure - all the talent in the world, but hollywood)

 

Oliver is a must keep. Absolute generational mid who had no pre-season, all the off field issues, broke his hand when he shouldn't have been playing, kept playing when he shouldn't have. 

 

Positives:
- McVee and Rivers have kept going and will be super

- Woewodin has shown enough to get some more game time (stunted as the super sub too often)

- Windsor and Tholstrupp

- JVR only his 2nd year (people assume he's a 4th/5th year player)

- Oliver and Trac still under 30.

- Moniz-Wakefield looks hungry and ready
 

 

Gawn and May are now 32. Viney nearly 30. Time to get serious.

 

Edited July 28, 2024Jul 28 by Red and Blue Flame

  On 25/07/2024 at 11:18, Jibroni said:

 

I forgot McAdam but Schache, Daw and Dunstan were essentially free hits. I wish we had Jordan and Bedford but they chose to move on.

The only players traded in 2022 they could have been useful were Lobb or Meek; we went for Grundy instead which few complained about at the time. 

We tried for Harley Reid last year but apart from Koschitzke or Ratugolea I cant think of a player available that would significantly improve the list?

 

We had the perfect opportunity to go after Mabior Chol last year when GC put him up for trade. 

He's kicked 29 goals this year playing as a genuine forward/ruckman which is exactly what we're screaming out for.

Instead we go and put our chips in for Tom Fullarton instead.

  On 25/07/2024 at 11:27, Sir Why You Little said:

Jordan should have been given time on the ground in the last quarter of the GF. If that had happened, he may have wanted to stay. 
Bedford deserved more game time and didn’t get it, which I found very frustrating, i don’t blame him for leaving, but he is a much better option than Laurie who plays a similar role. 
Schache and Fullarton are self explaining, were they the only options?

I fully understand tall Players are hard to find, but how hard did we look? Are we lacking staff to find replacements? 
But these 2 guys have sadly been a bust, it’s not lazy to discuss that, it’s just a fact 

Our Drafting has been excellent, but not so Trading. 
I am glad somebody agrees with me about Grundy. 
My opinion is that if a player signs a deal for x amount of years they should have to see out 50% of that contract before they can request a trade. 
It’s too easy to just back out of a signed deal. 
Sydney are top of the ladder & Grundy has been a big part of it, I don’t blame Grundy, but the MFC got rolled over

You cannot say that we have traded well over the last 3-4 years, other Clubs have won the deals

Jordon being left on the bench in the grand final had zero factor into his decision for leaving.

The sub rule at the time meant you couldn't sub anyone in whenever you wanted. It was an injury sub rule which meant that the sub would only be forced to activate if there was an injury to a player which we didn't have on grand final day.

Plus, he played 2 solid years of AFL footy at the dees after the grand final. He left purely because he was offered a better contract and plus he wanted a change of scenery as Longmire sold to him that there would be a spot for him as a starting mid rotating on a wing as well.

That decision was based off the 2023 year alone and not previous years.

Edited July 28, 2024Jul 28 by dazzledavey36

  On 28/07/2024 at 09:52, dazzledavey36 said:

Jordon being left on the bench in the grand final had zero factor into his decision for leaving.

The sub rule at the time meant you couldn't sub anyone in whenever you wanted. It was an injury sub rule which meant that the sub would only be forced to activate if there was an injury to a player which we didn't have on grand final day.

Plus, he played 2 solid years of AFL footy at the dees after the grand final. He left purely because he was offered a better contract and plus he wanted a change of scenery as Longmire sold to him that there would be a spot for him as a starting mid rotating on a wing as well.

That decision was based off the 2023 year alone and not previous years.

My view is JJ would still be at the club if we hadn’t brought Hunter to the club to take over his spot on the wing. Hunter was ok last year but really no upgrade on what JJ had done the previous year. I would much prefer JJ on our list for many reasons and I think if  the club had their time again they wouldn’t have gone near Hunter.   
 

Just my two cents. 

  On 28/07/2024 at 09:52, dazzledavey36 said:

Jordon being left on the bench in the grand final had zero factor into his decision for leaving.

The sub rule at the time meant you couldn't sub anyone in whenever you wanted. It was an injury sub rule which meant that the sub would only be forced to activate if there was an injury to a player which we didn't have on grand final day.

Plus, he played 2 solid years of AFL footy at the dees after the grand final. He left purely because he was offered a better contract and plus he wanted a change of scenery as Longmire sold to him that there would be a spot for him as a starting mid rotating on a wing as well.

That decision was based off the 2023 year alone and not previous years.

If only this post could be pinned. How many times do these delusional narratives need to be corrected?

  On 28/07/2024 at 10:21, ANG13 said:

My view is JJ would still be at the club if we hadn’t brought Hunter to the club to take over his spot on the wing. Hunter was ok last year but really no upgrade on what JJ had done the previous year. I would much prefer JJ on our list for many reasons and I think if  the club had their time again they wouldn’t have gone near Hunter.   
 

Just my two cents. 

I agree.

Jordon owned that wing spot in 2022 until his footy injury. We then tried to turn him into a half forward/midfielder which then meant he was in and out of the side.

McAdam for a pick that'll likely be an early 20s pick is not ideal. Silver lining is that pick may push out to pick 108 after NGA, academy and father/son selections.

Still, it's not trading away a top 10 pick for Lachie Shultz I guess.

  On 28/07/2024 at 09:52, dazzledavey36 said:

Jordon being left on the bench in the grand final had zero factor into his decision for leaving.

The sub rule at the time meant you couldn't sub anyone in whenever you wanted. It was an injury sub rule which meant that the sub would only be forced to activate if there was an injury to a player which we didn't have on grand final day.

Plus, he played 2 solid years of AFL footy at the dees after the grand final. He left purely because he was offered a better contract and plus he wanted a change of scenery as Longmire sold to him that there would be a spot for him as a starting mid rotating on a wing as well.

That decision was based off the 2023 year alone and not previous years.

Daz I always respect your posts on here, but I disagree on this one. 
Harmes was ready to come off in the last Quarter, so JJ could get a Run (cramp) but it didn’t happen 

Jordan would have felt like an outsider (to a degree) for those next 2 years, he wasn’t part of the clan. 
It’s a shame because I think he is a very important foot soldier 

Goodwin and Co thought differently. 
But we have definitely downgraded the list since ‘21 (Brayshaw is a huge hole) probably bigger than first thought. 
 

We just have to nail all the trades this Summer, there’s no room for error if we are to challenge again next year and beyond 

Lever speaks well in the rooms post match last night. He can see the problems

  On 28/07/2024 at 10:52, Sir Why You Little said:

Daz I always respect your posts on here, but I disagree on this one. 
Harmes was ready to come off in the last Quarter, so JJ could get a Run (cramp) but it didn’t happen 

Jordan would have felt like an outsider (to a degree) for those next 2 years, he wasn’t part of the clan. 
It’s a shame because I think he is a very important foot soldier 

Goodwin and Co thought differently. 
But we have definitely downgraded the list since ‘21 (Brayshaw is a huge hole) probably bigger than first thought. 
 

We just have to nail all the trades this Summer, there’s no room for error if we are to challenge again next year and beyond 

Lever speaks well in the rooms post match last night. He can see the problems

We wanted to send Harmes off as a sub for cramping but the AFL officials on the interchange bench wouldn't approve it.

  On 28/07/2024 at 10:55, dazzledavey36 said:

We wanted to send Harmes off as a sub for cramping but the AFL officials on the interchange bench wouldn't approve it.

Ok, i was told a different story, from an insider so the truth is somewhere inbetween. 
I am sure Harmesy could have had cramp if he had really wanted to, in front of an “AFL” official. 
Sad the way it ended for both of them actually….