On 03/10/2019 at 05:51, Sorry kids said:

Listened to McCartney on SEN. What a polarizing figure he is. Egonamic, been there, done everything type desperately trying to convince he is still relevant. All over the place. So, see ya, thanks for your service and lets make sure we do better next time. 

Classy.

I’ll bet you have no friends or influence outside of the dark room where you sit each night on the computer wish thinking to yourself that you’re Rocky Balboa.

Fair dinkum.

 

  On 03/10/2019 at 06:01, Pennant St Dee said:

We had that for the last 3 years in Lewis  though people like TGR see absolutely no benefit in the club taking him on when clearly that was identified by Roos as being a big void.

I think May and Lever are 2 who identify issues on field and try to address them

I don't think he posts now that Lewis has retired.

At the end of 2016 at the Tigers, Hardwick couldn’t coach, Cotchin couldn’t lead, the committee was challenged, according to some the club was in disarray!

It’s easy to poke holes from affair, particularly into the Demons after a terrible year. Let some changes be made, get a decent pre season behind the players, hopefully injury free, pickup a few players from draft & trading, a few new assistant coaches and see what happens.

In the AFL very few teams just go up up up on a linear improvement. While very disappointed with this year, I’m excited to see what Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw, Harmes, TMac, May, & Lever do next year. Max & Petracca build on this year.

Have supported Demons for over 50 years and still believe that this is best list we’ve had in that time. While maybe only Gawn & Oliver delivered an A grade season, think back a year and we have a lot of talent!

  On 03/10/2019 at 21:19, D4Life said:

At the end of 2016 at the Tigers, Hardwick couldn’t coach, Cotchin couldn’t lead, the committee was challenged, according to some the club was in disarray!

It’s easy to poke holes from affair, particularly into the Demons after a terrible year. Let some changes be made, get a decent pre season behind the players, hopefully injury free, pickup a few players from draft & trading, a few new assistant coaches and see what happens.

In the AFL very few teams just go up up up on a linear improvement. While very disappointed with this year, I’m excited to see what Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw, Harmes, TMac, May, & Lever do next year. Max & Petracca build on this year.

Have supported Demons for over 50 years and still believe that this is best list we’ve had in that time. While maybe only Gawn & Oliver delivered an A grade season, think back a year and we have a lot of talent!

This is very true! People have short memories, while we are all growing impatient we still understand the talent is there.

 

If we fail to make the finals next year I want this club to be ruthless. 

I also expect some changes this trade period, just because things aren' bbing rreported (most of wich is [censored] anyway) doesn't ' mean something big isn' brewing in the background. 

 

Please use pick three to our advantage! 

  On 03/10/2019 at 21:31, Carn dees said:

This is very true! People have short memories, while we are all growing impatient we still understand the talent is there.

 

If we fail to make the finals next year I want this club to be ruthless. 

I also expect some changes this trade period, just because things aren' bbing rreported (most of wich is [censored] anyway) doesn't ' mean something big isn' brewing in the background. 

 

Please use pick three to our advantage! 

The club aims to be ruthless (or good decision makers) every year. So why wait??

Interesting he mentioned he was old school.  Maybe that's where he failed as a coach.  He couldn't connect with the modern generation of players.

  On 03/10/2019 at 21:35, Engorged Onion said:

The club aims to be ruthless (or good decision makers) every year. So why wait??

Exactly should be ruthless every year

A big part of the problem

  On 03/10/2019 at 21:35, Engorged Onion said:

The club aims to be ruthless (or good decision makers) every year. So why wait??

Very true, but if where ruthless surely Goodwin would be gone, we where atrocious from round 1 even the pre season and still didn' mmnage to remotely turn it around

I have here a commercial quantity of Bex and some very comfy beds and doonas and hot water bottles. I have some nursery rhymes queued. I think we all need a little Bex, a lie down and a warm sleep.

  On 03/10/2019 at 22:24, Carn dees said:

Very true, but if where ruthless surely Goodwin would be gone, we where atrocious from round 1 even the pre season and still didn' mmnage to remotely turn it around

Hmmm, an extreme ruthlessness gets no one anywhere... 

  On 03/10/2019 at 07:22, demonstone said:

It's an old adage that there are three types of people in this world.

Those that can add up and those that can't.

 

There are 10 types of people in the world.

Those that understand the binary system and those that don't...

Edited October 3, 20195 yr by frankie_d
spelling

  On 03/10/2019 at 10:15, loges said:

Can someone explain what egonamic means please.

Isn’t it when you sit upright in your chair and have the desk at the correct height?

Bit of a shame that we have lost Brendan McCartney.

 

Think he is a quality football person. But some times you need a change if people get used to your message and it doesn't sink in any more.

 

Hopefully we get another good quality football person to replace him. As I have harped on about I would love to get Mark "Choco" Williams as a development coach. But in the end, it doesn't matter who we get to the Demons as long as they are a good quality football person and help develop our players to reach their full potential.

 

Edited October 5, 20195 yr by Supreme_Demon

Nice to see when I was defending the efforts of the coaches, paricularly Goodwin, in trying to right the season, the comedians and kings of hindsight were wrong, again, in disparaging my posts 

  On 03/10/2019 at 09:36, binman said:

A lot gets said about the tiger's  system.  And rightfully so. It relies on everyone knowing their role, everyone executing their role and total trust from the team that all players will do so.

Goody is a systems man. I reckon there are some players who get games because they do what they are told to. They execute their role.

The modern game is all about systems, so he's on the right track. Not only is the modern AFL game about systems, but modern sport. 

  On 10/3/2019 at 7:36 PM, binman said:

The comment from Macca in that interview marries up with Earle fascinating post that Macca told him at training that some of the young players were not following instructions on game day.

This is what worries me about 2020. Having demanded for the entirety of 2019 that players perform their roles, only for them to ignore those instructions, how do you go about changing these attitudes in a single off season? If the players weren't listening to the coaches, that's an indictment on the players, but also the senior coach.

  On 05/10/2019 at 04:55, Satyriconhome said:

Nice to see when I was defending the efforts of the coaches, paricularly Goodwin, in trying to right the season, the comedians and kings of hindsight were wrong, again, in disparaging my posts 

  On 05/10/2019 at 04:55, Satyriconhome said:

Nice to see when I was defending the efforts of the coaches, paricularly Goodwin, in trying to right the season, the comedians and kings of hindsight were wrong, again, in disparaging my posts 

Actually, if you go back and look at the posts you'll realise many of us were calling it as we saw it. "interrupted pre-seasons". 

You were the one refuting that their preparation was interrupted and now that coaches have come out to confirm what we thought, you're unhappy. 

  On 03/10/2019 at 11:10, BAMF said:

Viney knows how to get the ball just about better than anyone. He doesn't need any advice or to change his approach at all.

It's his ability to cover ground, spread from stoppages and truly woeful disposal at times which is the problem. 

Unfortunately, he has been injured far too often and it won't surprise me to hear post career about how many games he fought through pain. He would be brilliant with a good run but like VDB, I doubt he will ever get it due to the way he plays. But I have to say that I'm [censored] sick of posters asking for him to be traded.

Is he the best leader judging by the outside? No, probably not.

Is he a leader. Yes. Undeniably.

Should a team who lack leadership and have a reputation for being soft trade their captain who would run through brick walls for the club?

No. And he certainly doesn't need to change the way he gets the ball.

Where would you play him next year mate? He's ordinary by foot, which you can get away with in the midfield, but like much of our midfield is an inconsistent two-way-runner and an ordinary decision maker.

If Viney is playing in the midfield, that either means Oliver or Gus isn't. It's too offensive with no defensive accountability. Jack might be able to play a run-with role like Harmes has managed in the past, but the good games Viney has played as a run-with has seen him completely sacrifice disposal count and clearances, unlike Harmes, who has a really good ability to restrict his opponent and also get the ball, as well as kick the odd goal. 

I believe our midfield completely lacks balance and if we're going to take the next step and seriously challenge for the top 4, we need more diversity in there.

I'm not convinced he has a position going forward, outside of a tagger or a defensive forward with occasional stints in the midfield. Viney's best comes when he's in the midfield though (West Coast 2017 and Hawthorn 2018 SF). 

But each to their own.

  On 03/10/2019 at 22:01, one_demon said:

Interesting he mentioned he was old school.  Maybe that's where he failed as a coach.  He couldn't connect with the modern generation of players.

His closest relationships were seemingly with the likes of Petracca and Oliver, so I don't think that plays.

I had heard from a few people that he was pushing the players really hard in 2019 and the impression I got was that it was actually the older players who weren't as receptive to that.

  On 05/10/2019 at 04:55, Satyriconhome said:

Nice to see when I was defending the efforts of the coaches, paricularly Goodwin, in trying to right the season, the comedians and kings of hindsight were wrong, again, in disparaging my posts 

That went well. Won 2 of the last 10.

Ship righted.

 

On the ocean floor.

  On 05/10/2019 at 05:23, A F said:

The modern game is all about systems, so he's on the right track. Not only is the modern AFL game about systems, but modern sport. 

This is what worries me about 2020. Having demanded for the entirety of 2019 that players perform their roles, only for them to ignore those instructions, how do you go about changing these attitudes in a single off season? If the players weren't listening to the coaches, that's an indictment on the players, but also the senior coach.

This is the core of the problem. Look at Richmond...selfless team orientated football. Solid structures. Every player plays their role.

We are the opposite of that. And when players lose faith on the 'system' they start looking after their own game, own player, own stats etc. 'Why should I run to position if they don't kick it to me' or '.. if no-one else does'

Our players looked lost out there with ball in hand and with their run and spread. That tells you exactly what they think of the game plan and the ability of the coaches to correct things. Yet all along the club said things were turning the corner and all would be right and we'll reset during the bye etc....they were badly wrong.

There is a mountain of trouble there and if it doesn't go right in the pre-season and the first few rounds all hell will break loose because players and fans will see another train wreck about to happen in 2020 and it will be every man for himself.

Goodwin has a very short window to turn this around. And he will have a whole new team of assistants who will take time to bed down what they want from this team, how the coaching panel will work etc.

It's a monumental task. It's very concerning.

  On 05/10/2019 at 06:18, jnrmac said:

This is the core of the problem. Look at Richmond...selfless team orientated football. Solid structures. Every player plays their role.

We are the opposite of that. And when players lose faith on the 'system' they start looking after their own game, own player, own stats etc. 'Why should I run to position if they don't kick it to me' or '.. if no-one else does'

Yep, this is the thing that worries me most about next year. I like that we've pulled the trigger on Richo though. Hopefully a different approach to the same message of work rate. Even simply changing a few coaches could get us a result, given that it may feel like a new approach and game style, despite it coming from essentially the same place (Goodwin).

  39 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Our players looked lost out there with ball in hand and with their run and spread. That tells you exactly what they think of the game plan and the ability of the coaches to correct things. Yet all along the club said things were turning the corner and all would be right and we'll reset during the bye etc....they were badly wrong.

What else were they going to say? You didn't really expect the club to come out and say, 'nope, we're stuffed for this year and we won't turn it around. Oh and don't bother coming to games, members'. No club would say anything different. 

  39 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

There is a mountain of trouble there and if it doesn't go right in the pre-season and the first few rounds all hell will break loose because players and fans will see another train wreck about to happen in 2020 and it will be every man for himself.

Goodwin has a very short window to turn this around. And he will have a whole new team of assistants who will take time to bed down what they want from this team, how the coaching panel will work etc.

It's a monumental task. It's very concerning.

I do agree that Goodwin has a very short time to right this ship though. If we're thereabouts for 2020, he'll last the year and it'll be touch and go whether we look elsewhere for 2021. But we'd have to make finals and probably win one for Goodwin to be absolutely safe.

  On 05/10/2019 at 05:29, A F said:

Where would you play him next year mate? He's ordinary by foot, which you can get away with in the midfield, but like much of our midfield is an inconsistent two-way-runner and an ordinary decision maker.

If Viney is playing in the midfield, that either means Oliver or Gus isn't. It's too offensive with no defensive accountability. Jack might be able to play a run-with role like Harmes has managed in the past, but the good games Viney has played as a run-with has seen him completely sacrifice disposal count and clearances, unlike Harmes, who has a really good ability to restrict his opponent and also get the ball, as well as kick the odd goal. 

I believe our midfield completely lacks balance and if we're going to take the next step and seriously challenge for the top 4, we need more diversity in there.

I'm not convinced he has a position going forward, outside of a tagger or a defensive forward with occasional stints in the midfield. Viney's best comes when he's in the midfield though (West Coast 2017 and Hawthorn 2018 SF). 

But each to their own.

To start with. I wouldn't play him. Not till he was over his injuries to a sufficient amount to get back to his normal level.

This is the issue with him IMO. He is perpetually playing injured. We rarely see him at his best and have only seen snippets over the past 2 years.

He played some decent games towards the back end of the year (which many refused to notice btw).

I don't think you give him enough credit for his defensive capabilities. I think his best games are when he goes head to head. His defensive work [censored] all over Brayshaw in games where Brayshaw isn't tagging (which isn't often).

I agree with you though. He is inside mid or nothing. Just like Jones.

Hoping he can get back to his best next season.

 

 

  On 05/10/2019 at 06:24, A F said:

Yep, this is the thing that worries me most about next year. I like that we've pulled the trigger on Richo though. Hopefully a different approach to the same message of work rate. Even simply changing a few coaches could get us a result, given that it may feel like a new approach and game style, despite it coming from essentially the same place (Goodwin).

What else were they going to say? You didn't really expect the club to come out and say, 'nope, we're stuffed for this year and we won't turn it around. Oh and don't bother coming to games, members'. No club would say anything different. 

I do agree that Goodwin has a very short time to right this ship though. If we're thereabouts for 2020, he'll last the year and it'll be touch and go whether we look elsewhere for 2021. But we'd have to make finals and probably win one for Goodwin to be absolutely safe.

My view is that Goody lost the players this year. They weren't buying what he was selling. I get that others have different views. Thats fine of course

But lets say i'm right. His window for getting it right next year is tiny. They have rolled the dice and turned over most of the coaching staff. Everything has to go right in the preseason and the first 4 or so rounds. If not it will implode. Its a big ask.

  On 05/10/2019 at 06:47, BAMF said:

To start with. I wouldn't play him. Not till he was over his injuries to a sufficient amount to get back to his normal level.

This is the issue with him IMO. He is perpetually playing injured. We rarely see him at his best and have only seen snippets over the past 2 years.

He played some decent games towards the back end of the year (which many refused to notice btw).

I don't think you give him enough credit for his defensive capabilities. I think his best games are when he goes head to head. His defensive work [censored] all over Brayshaw in games where Brayshaw isn't tagging (which isn't often).

I agree with you though. He is inside mid or nothing. Just like Jones.

Hoping he can get back to his best next season.

And just like Brayshaw I'm afraid. Which is exactly why I don't think we should be afraid of trading one or two of our mids until we get more balance and versitility.

The only untradeable for me is Oliver, who is so clearly the best talent at Melbourne in 30+ years. 

If it's Viney, Oliver and Harmes, then Gus probably has to go. Harmes offers goals and accountability. 

Anyway, let's wait and see. It's pretty obvious the club won't try anything too bold like trading Jack or Gus regardless.