Welcome to Demonland: Taj Woewodin

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,826]

37 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

His highlight package is seriously very impressive. His left foot kicking and poise is what stood out for me. 

I'm hoping his career pans out the same way as James Harmes. Came through the rookie draft, both Melbourne supporters and every year he's just gotten better to play a big part in our premiership campaign.

No reason why little Woey can't nut out 100 games for us and become a great role player in our best 22. All reports suggest he has a high character, and unbelievable work rate for someone his age.

Welcome Taj.

Would be a great outcome.  By the time that guys like Viney, Oliver, Patracca, Harmes, Salem etc are reaching the back end of their careers, to have a second solid core comming through in behind them, the likes of James Jordan, Tommy Sparrow, Bailey Laurie, Kosie, Jacko and now potentially the likes of Taj Woewden reaching their prime will be so important to our sustained sucess.

Having solid characters like Jack Viney, James Harmes and Taj Woewdin that bleed red and blue and have that almost unbreakable loyalty to the club  is so important to a strong team culture IMHO.

[mo64 5,874]

1 hour ago, DeesFlag2020 said:

I agree. We were a mess as a club then, and it was not until Roos came in that we started the reforms that have lead to our current success. Part of this is we are now getting the best out of our playing Group, which obviously includes developing young talent effectively, to the extent that it seems we are elite in that pathway in the AFL.
 

I have no doubt the Billy Stretch would have benefited greatly from that environment, along with a number of other recruits which we managed to burn. Our current recruitment and development pathways are setting us up for sustained success. Exciting times. 

I just want to refute this narrative that Paul Roos developed young talent, and changed the club culture. I suggest you listen to a podcast by Dylan Buckley with James Harmes, which was recorded in the week leading up to the GF. Harmes said that when he started at the club, which was the same time as Roos, the young players weren't given any guidance as to how and where they would fit into the senior team. They would just play for Casey and hope they could break in. Now all the young players are given clear guidance as to where they'll fit into the team, and what they need to do to achieve that. Case in point is Jason Taylor coming out and saying Van Rooyan will be developed as a forward.

I'd also suggest you listen to Dylan Buckley's podcast with Max Gawn. It goes for over an hour, and covers a lot about the club. When asked who changed the culture of the club, Max said one word, "Goody". When talking about Roos, Max laughs and says that the players loved it when Roos arrived. After training 9-5 under Neeld, Max says that Roos was a family man, so would leave training at 1PM. So the players would leave after him.

And listening to a recent interview with Goody, the only compliment he gave Roos was to say that he delegated authority.

This narrative that Roos changed the culture, and was a big factor in our flag win, has to stop. 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,826]

Loved those post premership scene with Gary Lyon interviewing Shane in his 2000 GF jumper.  Similarly the probably somewhat staged scene with Jack presenting the premiership cup to Todd made me all warm and fuzzy inside.

Will be great to see a video of Shane and Taj celebrating his selection for the mighty Red and Blue.

Also wounding if Jack and Taj got to know each other hanging out around the MFC rooms all those years ago?

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,826]

6 minutes ago, mo64 said:

I just want to refute this narrative that Paul Roos developed young talent, and changed the club culture. I suggest you listen to a podcast by Dylan Buckley with James Harmes, which was recorded in the week leading up to the GF. Harmes said that when he started at the club, which was the same time as Roos, the young players weren't given any guidance as to how and where they would fit into the senior team. They would just play for Casey and hope they could break in. Now all the young players are given clear guidance as to where they'll fit into the team, and what they need to do to achieve that. Case in point is Jason Taylor coming out and saying Van Rooyan will be developed as a forward.

I'd also suggest you listen to Dylan Buckley's podcast with Max Gawn. It goes for over an hour, and covers a lot about the club. When asked who changed the culture of the club, Max said one word, "Goody". When talking about Roos, Max laughs and says that the players loved it when Roos arrived. After training 9-5 under Neeld, Max says that Roos was a family man, so would leave training at 1PM. So the players would leave after him.

And listening to a recent interview with Goody, the only compliment he gave Roos was to say that he delegated authority.

This narrative that Roos changed the culture, and was a big factor in our flag win, has to stop. 

That's a bit of a stretch isn't it Mo?

Roosy and Jackson bought us some space and credability and laid the foundations of the culture for guys like Goodie to build upon.

Roos bought a build from defense mindset that bought back compeditiveness and confidence to a team that had neither for the preceding period.  His impact was huge.

With all the sack Goodwin now thread that was going pretty hard up until the start of this season, do you seriously think Goodie would have made it through the period that Roos guided us through as a rookie coach?

[mo64 5,874]

4 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

That's a bit of a stretch isn't it Mo?

Roosy and Jackson bought us some space and credability and laid the foundations of the culture for guys like Goodie to build upon.

Roos bought a build from defense mindset that bought back compeditiveness and confidence to a team that had neither for the preceding period.  His impact was huge.

With all the sack Goodwin now thread that was going pretty hard up until the start of this season, do you seriously think Goodie would have made it through the period that Roos guided us through as a rookie coach?

If Goody or any first time coach took over from Neeld, and had Roos' record of finishing 17th, 13th, 11th and lost their final game by 111 points, they would have been sacked. If the subsequent coach took us to a flag, would you be giving the plaudits to that coach, as you are with Roos?

 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,826]

15 minutes ago, mo64 said:

If Goody or any first time coach took over from Neeld, and had Roos' record of finishing 17th, 13th, 11th and lost their final game by 111 points, they would have been sacked. If the subsequent coach took us to a flag, would you be giving the plaudits to that coach, as you are with Roos?

 

Look, I totally rate Goody and agree he should be getting most of the coaching credit for taking us to a flag, but I think Roos did still play an important part in turning around our culture.

Other guys within the coaching staff like Choco, Stafford, Chapman, Yze, Burgess etc probably also deserve some credit too.  Although 2019 was a Fing disaster, Dave Misson was also probably the one who lifted our fittness and traing standards to anything like where they needed to be (under Roos?).  After all, it's a team game on and off the field.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[rpfc 28,433]

37 minutes ago, mo64 said:

I just want to refute this narrative that Paul Roos developed young talent, and changed the club culture. I suggest you listen to a podcast by Dylan Buckley with James Harmes, which was recorded in the week leading up to the GF. Harmes said that when he started at the club, which was the same time as Roos, the young players weren't given any guidance as to how and where they would fit into the senior team. They would just play for Casey and hope they could break in. Now all the young players are given clear guidance as to where they'll fit into the team, and what they need to do to achieve that. Case in point is Jason Taylor coming out and saying Van Rooyan will be developed as a forward.

I'd also suggest you listen to Dylan Buckley's podcast with Max Gawn. It goes for over an hour, and covers a lot about the club. When asked who changed the culture of the club, Max said one word, "Goody". When talking about Roos, Max laughs and says that the players loved it when Roos arrived. After training 9-5 under Neeld, Max says that Roos was a family man, so would leave training at 1PM. So the players would leave after him.

And listening to a recent interview with Goody, the only compliment he gave Roos was to say that he delegated authority.

This narrative that Roos changed the culture, and was a big factor in our flag win, has to stop. 

Roos didn’t rebuild the club around himself because he knew he was there for such a short time. He was like the best consultant you could possibly get.

I think Goodwin is going to be remembered as the fulcrum of our renaissance but we don’t need to diminish Roos.

Its not zero sum - all can get credit. Jackson, Bartlett, Roos, McCartney, Mahoney, MacPherson, Viney, Taylor, Lamb… a long list of people who did a great job turning this place around.

[Demonland 72,193]

 

[dazzledavey36 54,944]

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

I just want to refute this narrative that Paul Roos developed young talent, and changed the club culture. I suggest you listen to a podcast by Dylan Buckley with James Harmes, which was recorded in the week leading up to the GF. Harmes said that when he started at the club, which was the same time as Roos, the young players weren't given any guidance as to how and where they would fit into the senior team. They would just play for Casey and hope they could break in. Now all the young players are given clear guidance as to where they'll fit into the team, and what they need to do to achieve that. Case in point is Jason Taylor coming out and saying Van Rooyan will be developed as a forward.

I'd also suggest you listen to Dylan Buckley's podcast with Max Gawn. It goes for over an hour, and covers a lot about the club. When asked who changed the culture of the club, Max said one word, "Goody". When talking about Roos, Max laughs and says that the players loved it when Roos arrived. After training 9-5 under Neeld, Max says that Roos was a family man, so would leave training at 1PM. So the players would leave after him.

And listening to a recent interview with Goody, the only compliment he gave Roos was to say that he delegated authority.

This narrative that Roos changed the culture, and was a big factor in our flag win, has to stop. 

Well said.

I have been banging on about this for a while now. The whole narrative that Paul Roos played a significant part in this premiership is becoming a joke now. Not only has their been a lot of personal and staff change over since Roos era, but Simon Goodwin has brought in his own philosophy on coaching and recruiting. 

Not discounting Roos for what he done for this club, but its been 5 years since he last set foot in this door.

I would say 2019 was the ideal wack we needed before we had a full club review and changed the culture complete upside down even from the Roos era.

[DeeSpencer 25,711]

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

If Goody or any first time coach took over from Neeld, and had Roos' record of finishing 17th, 13th, 11th and lost their final game by 111 points, they would have been sacked. If the subsequent coach took us to a flag, would you be giving the plaudits to that coach, as you are with Roos?

 

Roos took over a 2 win team and went 4 wins, 7 wins, 10 wins. Only someone like Carlton would sack a coach for that record. 

[Wrecker46 2,982]

58 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

Woey jnr is a fair bit shorter than his old man even taking into account he is barefoot.

Wonder if he still has some growth left in him. Woey snr didn't really blossom until he was 21.

[DeeSpencer 25,711]

I really hope he keeps the dual sided kicking. Speed and an accurate short kick on both sides seem to be his main assets. Even though the game is very homogenous these days every player needs a weapon. Development coaches can round out a player but you have to have something to hurt the opposition. 

[Fritta The Hair G.O.A.T. 510]

2 hours ago, rpfc said:

Its not zero sum - all can get credit. Jackson, Bartlett, Roos, McCartney, Mahoney, MacPherson, Viney, Taylor, Lamb… a long list of people who did a great job turning this place around.

Correct. Many fingerprints are on this year's cup, and we should celebrate the contribution of all who played a part (Except maybe Mark Neeld and Cameron Schwab).

[Jaded No More 68,915]

3 hours ago, mo64 said:

I just want to refute this narrative that Paul Roos developed young talent, and changed the club culture. I suggest you listen to a podcast by Dylan Buckley with James Harmes, which was recorded in the week leading up to the GF. Harmes said that when he started at the club, which was the same time as Roos, the young players weren't given any guidance as to how and where they would fit into the senior team. They would just play for Casey and hope they could break in. Now all the young players are given clear guidance as to where they'll fit into the team, and what they need to do to achieve that. Case in point is Jason Taylor coming out and saying Van Rooyan will be developed as a forward.

I'd also suggest you listen to Dylan Buckley's podcast with Max Gawn. It goes for over an hour, and covers a lot about the club. When asked who changed the culture of the club, Max said one word, "Goody". When talking about Roos, Max laughs and says that the players loved it when Roos arrived. After training 9-5 under Neeld, Max says that Roos was a family man, so would leave training at 1PM. So the players would leave after him.

And listening to a recent interview with Goody, the only compliment he gave Roos was to say that he delegated authority.

This narrative that Roos changed the culture, and was a big factor in our flag win, has to stop. 

Roos did something that nobody else could do at the time, he commanded respect and was able to do a lot of things regarding list management, game style, and training that a rookie coach could not do.

He set standards, but more importantly he finally got a group of young players to listen and believe. It was never going to be a magic cure, but it started the ball rolling. I don't think anyone else could have done that, and certainly not so quickly. We were at rock bottom when he came, and a year after he left we made a prelim. And yes it took another 3 years to win a flag, but in the grand scheme of 57 years of failings, it was a very quick climb. 

We needed Roos and Jackson to make us a serious club again, and because Roos had no long term hat in the ring, he was able to do it without emotion and without selfish motives. He was the perfect transitional figure to claw us out of the grave we found ourselves in. 

 

Edit: and honestly after the disaster of Neeld, there is absolutely no way our members would have stood by another untried coach. It was too risky and we needed a big name to keep us afloat. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Jaded No More

[Antioch 232]

Choco Williams had a huge hand in the background towards winning this Premiership. 

[Gator 17,357]

4 hours ago, mo64 said:

If Goody or any first time coach took over from Neeld, and had Roos' record of finishing 17th, 13th, 11th and lost their final game by 111 points, they would have been sacked. If the subsequent coach took us to a flag, would you be giving the plaudits to that coach, as you are with Roos?

 

To answer this specific point and it only:

(And I see that Deespencer has answered in the exact fashion I'm about to, but I'll add to it)

Roos took over a 2 wins/54% basket case.  One of the wins was against a fledgling GWS.  It was arguably the worst or second worst team from an established club in the AFL era.  The terrible percentage meant that our average score was almost doubled every game we played.  As a comparison, this year's spooner finished with 70%.

Under his tenure we went to 4 wins/68%, 7 wins/77%, and 10 wins/97%.

To suggest any other coach would have been sacked with such a record is one of the most ill-considered posts I've seen.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Hannibal Inc.

[Guest]

I’d also add that in 2013, there were very strong rumblings about mass walkouts. I clearly remember PJ saying his first order of business was to convince players that there was a future at Melbourne. This was coming off 4 years where Scully, McLean, Riv and Beamer all walked out fairly disgruntled.

While we did lose Col and Chip in years one and two of Roosy’s era (and Howey was traded), by the end we were actually attracting players like Melk, Jordie and Hibbo. The bleeding had started to stop. Thanks to Roosy, we were no longer a clown car veering out of control.

My opinion is that were Roos still coach in 2021, we wouldn’t have won a flag. We’d have been competitive for sure and honest as the day is long. But would Roos’ mantra have kept up with the modern game? Furthermore, he wasn’t omnipotent. He was clearly wrong on keeping Watts in 2017 and Goody was correct that Jack’s attitude was detrimental to young blokes entering the club.

That said, to build a flourishing business, organization or society, premises need to be satisfied before you get to where you need to get to. If we don’t get Roosy in 2013 (or at least a coach who didn’t need to learn on the job), I’m not sure we aren’t the Hobart Devils by now. If Goody was suffering from anxiety leading into 2021, imagine how he would have felt walking into the minefield that was MFC in 2014? 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Colin B. Flaubert
Just a few points to clean up

[layzie 33,805]

The romance of a father/son selection like this just caps off a magnificent year. Merry (soon) Xmas everyone 

[BDA 22,755]

I thought Roos took the coin and left before the job was finished so I was dirty on him there for a few years. But there is no doubt he took over a rabble and instilled some defensive organisation and fortitude. His appointment signaled to the world that we were serious about finally getting our act together. We needed the gravitas and authority that only a Roos like figure could provide

And he selected Goody, provided him with 2 years cover while he got to know the club and form relationships with the players. Roos handed over the reigns to Goody with a list and club that was in much better shape than when he took over.

I don’t want to over-state his influence. Goody was absolutely the architect of our flag but Roos was critical in turning us from a basket case to a competent AFL team. Goody did the rest.

[spirit of norm smith 16,459]

On 9/26/2021 at 9:20 PM, spirit of norm smith said:

Taj Woewodin.  Get him in. 

Taj.  Welcome to the Dees. 👍🏻🏆❤️💙

[DeesFlag2020 90]

9 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Well said.

I have been banging on about this for a while now. The whole narrative that Paul Roos played a significant part in this premiership is becoming a joke now. Not only has their been a lot of personal and staff change over since Roos era, but Simon Goodwin has brought in his own philosophy on coaching and recruiting. 

Not discounting Roos for what he done for this club, but its been 5 years since he last set foot in this door.

I would say 2019 was the ideal wack we needed before we had a full club review and changed the culture complete upside down even from the Roos era.

Roos succeeded Nield at a time of crisis overseen by the AFL with the management under Jackson. What Roos did was to create a stable professional environment so that the club could be rebuilt and was a more attractive and professional set up to attract quality players. In that process Jackson and Roos oversaw the appointed of Goody as a designated successor in a two year timeframe but with a much stronger list. This also allowed Goody time to set his own environment and to attract his own coaching/management team.

The recent premiership would not have been possible without that process under Roos/Jackson, although the vision and professional set up we now have is clearly Goody’s,  with a strong recent contribution from Gary Pert.l. Am not disputing Gioody is primarily responsible for winning the flag, but initial insightful and visionary management certainly helped.

[buck_nekkid 5,861]

I feel like I have dissociative identity disorder reading this thread. Post about Raj, post about Roos, post about Taj, post about Roos…

the last post was about Roos, so I’d better make this one about Taj.

Welcome to the Dees, young man.  Welcome to the premiers, who are set for a feast over the next few years.  

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

 

16 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Edit: and honestly after the disaster of Neeld, there is absolutely no way our members would have stood by another untried coach. It was too risky and we needed a big name to keep us afloat. 

 

10 hours ago, BDA said:

I thought Roos took the coin and left before the job was finished so I was dirty on him there for a few years. But there is no doubt he took over a rabble and instilled some defensive organisation and fortitude. His appointment signaled to the world that we were serious about finally getting our act together. We needed the gravitas and authority that only a Roos like figure could provide

...

I don’t want to over-state his influence. Goody was absolutely the architect of our flag but Roos was critical in turning us from a basket case to a competent AFL team. Goody did the rest.

 

At the time. we were so terrible on the field and so disrespected off the field, it felt like the last roll of the dice for club. We were going down the plughole. Who can forget our pathetic struggles for sponsors, for instance? Roos and Jackson pulled us out of the vortex. If not for their efforts, we would now be half heartedly cheering on the Gold Coast Demons ("MFC" proudly on the back of the jumper) or huddling in small groups at Casey v Sandringham games recalling the glory of 1964.

[DeeZone 9,842]

Just watched Taj interview with Benny Gibson he looks a really happy chip off the old block even sounds like Woey as a youngster. Also Jud McVee is a teammate and close friend of Taj’s as well and how good was it to see Riv And  LJ drop in to Woeys house to welcome Taj into the fold.

just to add my 2 cents worth Peter Jackson and Paul Roos bought us the much needed time and respect in the football world to commence a complete rebuild of our mighty football club. Look at us now.!!!

[one_demon 826]

Anyone know where Taj would of been taken if not a father-son?  I'm guessing in the thirties.