On 14/10/2019 at 10:27, Moonshadow said:

Also worth noting that whilst player trades finish on Wednesday, picks can be traded up until Nov 22. And then again on draft night.

Yes but only picks, so if a player is potentially going to be involved then the trade needs to get done by Wednesday.

I’m still hoping for 6+Caldwell personally!

Do GWS have any choice but to give up a player? They still need enough points to pay for Green so paying us 2 first rounders would appear to leave them short. 

  On 14/10/2019 at 10:37, Lord Travis said:

Yes but only picks, so if a player is potentially going to be involved then the trade needs to get done by Wednesday.

I’m still hoping for 6+Caldwell personally!

Who would Caldwell push out of the midfielder? With Trac also wanting to move in there.

  On 13/10/2019 at 09:54, Macca said:

Upside along with a pick around the 10 -12 mark (for pick 3) but we don't want another Dom Tyson type.  Dom gave his all and at times he was more than handy but not handy enough to keep (ultimately)

Above all else we are screaming out for good decision makers possessed with excellent skills.  And a functional forward line.

Our best (Oliver,  Brayshaw & Harmes) struggled (in real terms) this season.  That may have had a lot to do with the opposition sweating on the recipients of Gawn's taps* but again,  it's a real issue.

 

*Taps to advantage (from Gawn) this year compared to 2018?  Anyone know?  DeeSpencer?  Rusty?  Pates?

More so 'Taps to advantage with a clean possession to advantage"  (that outcome (in total) was one of the main reasons we won 16 games in 2018 - in my opinion)

                          2018            2019

Hit outs           1,000              829

To Adv (ave)     16.2            13.6

  On 14/10/2019 at 11:03, olisik said:

Who would Caldwell push out of the midfielder? With Trac also wanting to move in there.

You can never have too many quality mids, Oli.

At the moment we only have Clarry, so it would be a problem that i would love for us to have.

  On 14/10/2019 at 11:28, Rusty Nails said:

                          2018            2019

Hit outs           1,000              829

To Adv (ave)     16.2            13.6

Thanks Rusty

Down a bit but the eyes have it in terms of whether those taps to advantage this season became productive.

I say no and I reckon the recipients of many of those taps to advantage were often immediately tackled or pressured.  Time after time and game after game. 

The ideal scenario sees a tap to advantage quickly given off to a player streaming forward kicking it to the advantage of a forward leading into space.  And then a shot at goal.  It's not rocket science. 

But the opposition often roved to Gawn's taps so we got hurt the other way.  Taps to disadvantage should be a stat.

And that's no knock on Gawn.  With such a dominant ruckman the coaching staff has to be able to turn that dominance into an advantage.  And our midfielders should be properly drilled into getting to the right spots. 

Anyway,  we'll see how we go with a revamped coaching structure.  And we've at least seen personnel changes in those areas.  That's a positive.

Edited October 14, 20195 yr by Macca

  On 14/10/2019 at 11:55, Demon Disciple said:

You can never have too many quality mids, Oli.

At the moment we only have Clarry, so it would be a problem that i would love for us to have.

We need mids that are complimentary of one and other. At the moment, we've got too many of the same and they don't have the flexibility to roll through the midfield AND play forward, or on a wing, or at half back. 

I still think we should be trading Gus or Viney, but anyway. Not going to happen this year.

I'm convinced we will have some sort of deal with GWS, whether its done in the trade period or up until the draft could be another matter. I just can't see why they would trade up to pick 6 if it wasn't to put themselves in a position to acquire pick 3 from us.  As others have pointed out, they're actually worse off points wise with the St Kilda trade and if they aren't aiming to add two high end talents then what was the point of it?

Green sure isn't getting past Adelaide or whoever ends up with Pick 5.

  On 14/10/2019 at 11:58, Macca said:

Thanks Rusty

Down a bit but the eyes have it in terms of whether those taps to advantage this season became productive.

I say no and I reckon the recipients of many of those taps to advantage were often immediately tackled or pressured.  Time after time and game after game. 

The ideal scenario sees a tap to advantage quickly given off to a player streaming forward kicking it to the advantage of a forward leading into space.  And then a shot at goal.  It's not rocket science. 

But the opposition often roved to Gawn's taps so we got hurt the other way.  Taps to disadvantage should be a stat.

And that's no knock on Gawn.  With such a dominant ruckman the coaching staff has to be able to turn that dominance into an advantage.  And our midfielders should be properly drilled into getting to the right spots. 

Anyway,  we'll see how we go with a revamped coaching structure.  And we've at least seen personnel changes in those areas.  That's a positive.

Would be handy to see the results from center square (666) vs stoppages.  And also who is on the receiving end of those successful connections.

Those able to read the taps and on the move a little better maybe?  Also off opposition tap outs.

Champion might provide something along these lines at club level but merely a guess.  There's vanilla stats (public) and then there's no doubt plenty of meaty stuff we don't get the privilege of seeing.

  On 14/10/2019 at 12:07, A F said:

We need mids that are complimentary of one and other. At the moment, we've got too many of the same and they don't have the flexibility to roll through the midfield AND play forward, or on a wing, or at half back. 

I still think we should be trading Gus or Viney, but anyway. Not going to happen this year.

If Burgess gets Christian on Tracc (improved tank) there's at least one plausible option AF.

On trading: I just realized that we have traded out all picks in the first 5 rounds except 3, 26 and 50. We also currently have 3 list spots.

So instead of just focusing on the total points traded, the Frost and Lagdon trades might also need to be viewed in terms of "giving away picks we were going to use anyway".

That being said, Stretch and JKH are still OOC. Maybe a pick comes back from GC for Stretch (58, 78 or 90). Maybe we split pick 3 to two top 20 picks and delist JKH.

 

  On 14/10/2019 at 20:30, deanox said:

On trading: I just realized that we have traded out all picks in the first 5 rounds except 3, 26 and 50. We also currently have 3 list spots.

So instead of just focusing on the total points traded, the Frost and Lagdon trades might also need to be viewed in terms of "giving away picks we were going to use anyway".

That being said, Stretch and JKH are still OOC. Maybe a pick comes back from GC for Stretch (58, 78 or 90). Maybe we split pick 3 to two top 20 picks and delist JKH.

 

I wouldnt worry a whole lot on list spots at this point in time. There’s still delisted free agents (e.g Murray) rookie draft and preseason draft as well to fill all our spots

Regarding list spots, 3 alone wouldn’t get us the 2x top 15 picks we are looking for.

26 would need to be included, so our number of draft picks wouldn’t change 

  On 14/10/2019 at 01:59, Demon Forever said:

Im hearing pick 3 for 6 and 11 and swaps of later picks

DF, where did you hear this? 

No need to name sources but an indication would be useful as right now the claim lacks credibility. 

 

As 11 is held by Hawks, it set me and others off on a wild goose chase to work out how 11 would get to GWS.

  On 14/10/2019 at 02:01, Lucifer's Hero said:

So they get 11 from Hawks for Patton, Bonar and something/someone else?

Edit:  Maybe we give a future 2nd/3rd round to GWS which they pass to Hawks...

Fox is reporting "... It is understood they won’t offer up Pick 42 for Patton, meaning GWS might need to settle for Pick 61".  Patton Trade

 

DF, if your claim is correct, how will GWS get 11 from Hawks or was your post  trolling...?

Edited October 14, 20195 yr by Lucifer's Hero

  On 14/10/2019 at 12:07, A F said:

We need mids that are complimentary of one and other. At the moment, we've got too many of the same and they don't have the flexibility to roll through the midfield AND play forward, or on a wing, or at half back. 

I still think we should be trading Gus or Viney, but anyway. Not going to happen this year.

I can see it now.

"ClayClay, your new hair style just screams sartorial splendor, what!"

"Gus, old boy, that purple velvet number you wore to Goo last night was just marrrrvelous"

Meanwhile whilst we're spending all our time complimenting instead of complementing, we're losing by 10 goals. Wait, is this what happened last year?

?

 

(good natured post intended)

Edited October 14, 20195 yr by Superunknown

  On 14/10/2019 at 20:58, DemonLad5 said:

Regarding list spots, 3 alone wouldn’t get us the 2x top 15 picks we are looking for.

26 would need to be included, so our number of draft picks wouldn’t change 

This would be an epic result, given that the club and all of us had factored in us having just won the flag this time last year, and we haven’t lost any of our ‘stars’ during this trade period.

 

Edited October 14, 20195 yr by Ron Burgundy

  On 14/10/2019 at 11:03, olisik said:

Who would Caldwell push out of the midfielder? With Trac also wanting to move in there.

Anyone but Oliver.

I really rate Caldwells potential as either an inside mid or outside mid. He’s well rounded and could be versatile if needed. I’d be pouring games into him and adding him to the midfield rotation, maybe stints in the wing and stints on ball.

I think Viney is the one who needs to add more strings to his bow, potentially rotate up forward. Oliver has already started playing stints up forward, though was more effective there in 2018 when getting cleaner delivery. Brayshaw can play wing, half back or half forward. Harmes can tag or play forward and use his marking skills and leap. Viney is the one who needs to find another position he can play that’s not around the ball. Defensive forward is probably the most likely.

Edited October 14, 20195 yr by Lord Travis

Barrett said this morning on radio that he doesn't think the pick 3 for GWS split picks will eventuate at all. Said he hasn't heard anything at all and looking most likely that we'll take pick 3 to the draft.

  On 14/10/2019 at 23:06, dazzledavey36 said:

Barrett said this morning on radio that he doesn't think the pick 3 for GWS split picks will eventuate at all. Said he hasn't heard anything at all and looking most likely that we'll take pick 3 to the draft.

Good. 

If something happens, it means we didn't leak. If something does not happen, we still didn't leak.

  On 14/10/2019 at 23:06, dazzledavey36 said:

Barrett said this morning on radio that he doesn't think the pick 3 for GWS split picks will eventuate at all. Said he hasn't heard anything at all and looking most likely that we'll take pick 3 to the draft.

I think if we take 3 to the draft, and don’t pick Serong, we might trade our future 1st for a 2019 1st, around 10, & pick Cody Weightman.

  On 14/10/2019 at 23:21, Dees247 said:

I think if we take 3 to the draft, and don’t pick Serong, we might trade our future 1st for a 2019 1st, around 10, & pick Cody Weightman.

Serong is more and more likely to be the one at 3. 

  On 14/10/2019 at 23:21, Dees247 said:

I think if we take 3 to the draft, and don’t pick Serong, we might trade our future 1st for a 2019 1st, around 10, & pick Cody Weightman.

Our future 1st might end up being around 16-18. Not because we will necessarily rise up the ladder, but because there is a [censored] load of academy/fs draftees next year that clubs may want to match bids on before we have a 'live' pick. 

I'm thinking 3 this year and the 2020 second rounder we got for frost trade might get us two picks this year around the 7-12 mark. Could land us Stephens and Weightman

  On 14/10/2019 at 23:26, ChaserJ said:

Serong is more and more likely to be the one at 3. 

That’s what my post said. I said we might trade for a pick around 10 for Weightman, if we haven’t already picked Serong.

  On 14/10/2019 at 23:26, ChaserJ said:

Serong is more and more likely to be the one at 3. 

Jason Taylor must be sweating bullets on this pick.

 

  On 14/10/2019 at 23:28, Moonshadow said:

Our future 1st might end up being around 16-18. Not because we will necessarily rise up the ladder, but because there is a [censored] load of academy/fs draftees next year that clubs may want to match bids on before we have a 'live' pick. 

I'm thinking 3 this year and the 2020 second rounder we got for frost trade might get us two picks this year around the 7-12 mark. Could land us Stephens and Weightman

Where do we get the picks from though?