31 minutes ago, Older demon said:

If we look at the premiers and their player mix I can see some glaring gaps in our list and team. Roos wanted big bodied mids but IMO the game has changed and 1 or 2 at most and the need is for speed.

Consider these 6 players from yesterday and their height" Prestia 175 cm, Short 178 cm, Rioli 179 cm, lambert 178 cm, Bolton 175 cm and Baker 173 cm. They are all quick and mobile and kick well. That is 6 players under 180 cm and they win the flag in fact 2 out of 3 and a near miss last year. Also note they play 2 ruckman. MFC have Viney, Spargo, JKH & Bedford under 180

The target is pace, pace and more pace whoever they may be

We also have Chandler and Lockhart as rookies = 6; same as Richmond.

The difference is Richmond have either chosen their 6 'small' players better or developed them better.

But not sure the quantity is so important as 2019 Premiers, WCE have only 2 under 180:  Rioli and Ryan.  I suspect the quantity depends on what works for the respective game plans.  But its fair to say WCE have also recruited and/or developed better than us. 

Edited September 29, 20195 yr by Lucifer's Hero

2 hours ago, Older demon said:

If we look at the premiers and their player mix I can see some glaring gaps in our list and team. Roos wanted big bodied mids but IMO the game has changed and 1 or 2 at most and the need is for speed.

Consider these 6 players from yesterday and their height" Prestia 175 cm, Short 178 cm, Rioli 179 cm, lambert 178 cm, Bolton 175 cm and Baker 173 cm. They are all quick and mobile and kick well. That is 6 players under 180 cm and they win the flag in fact 2 out of 3 and a near miss last year. Also note they play 2 ruckman. MFC have Viney, Spargo, JKH & Bedford under 180

The target is pace, pace and more pace whoever they may be

Yeah, but hang on. We've been crying out for pace for a while now. It's just as likely next year another team will win it with a different mix. 

I'm all for pace, but West Coast won it without an abundance of it. As did the Bulldogs. 

Getting the structures right from a coaching level is far more important. Pace is probably an important part of that mix, but the danger of looking at the Richmond mix is that you draft too many smalls and you go the other way.

Balance is needed and the game style needs to be clear, and this is, I'd suggest, what should dictate recruiting.

Now that it’s official GC get pick 2 this is what I could see unfolding/what I want to happen this trade period

IN: Tomlinson, Elliot through Free Agency

-          Elliot would be a good get, gives us a small forward we have been crying out for

-          Tomlinson has lowered his colours a bit this finals but he’s simply still better than any wingman we have right now so still an upgrade on what we have

IN: Langdon, pick 7  OUT: Pick 3

-          Win-win for both teams, freo prefer this because they would lose our pick 21 in the henry bid and the players that suit our needs in the top end of the draft will still be there at 7

IN: Pick 26  OUT: Frost to north

-          Sounds like frosty is gone, if we can snag a early to mid second I’ll take that

IN: Pick 11  OUT:Picks 21, 26 to GWS

-          GWS get more than enough points to use on Green and keep their 1^st round pick, we move up the draft were its said there will still be good players there at 11

-          Western Bulldogs pick 12 could be another option as they will need multiple picks to get Bruce and Keath

IN: Tomlinson, Elliot, Langdon, Pick 7, Pick 11

Out: Frost, Pick 3, Pick 21

Other moves I’d like to see:

-          Target S.Gray or Butler for cheap

-          If Jenkins came cheap and didn’t have to pay him much I wouldn’t be against it but I’d rather back in Weed for next season. If he doesn’t show anything next season we should be throwing everything at B.King or Cameron

-          If we could get a top 10 pick for Brayshaw or first rounder for Viney I would look at a deal

-          Gaff and WC first rounder for pick 3

-          I don’t get what the hype is about splitting the picks with GWS, it’s said there’s a big drop off in the draft after about pick 12 and pretty much all these players mentioned to be in the deal such as Caldwell, Bonar, O’Halloran, Hately are all inside mids which doesn’t help our team at all.

USE Pick 7: Young/Ash/Stephens (all high quality outside players)

-          Serong and flanders will go inbetween 3 and 7 so one of these guys has to still be available

USE Pick 11: Weightman/Kemp/Gould/McAsey

-          Weightman probably best fit but if kemp slides we must pick him

BEST 22

B: Jetta, May, Hore

HB: Salem, Lever, Hibberd

C:    Langdon, Oliver, Tomlinson

HF: Petracca, Weid, Melksham

F: Fritsch, Tmac, Elliot

R: Gawn, Brayshaw, Viney

I: Harmes, Hunt/Hannan, Vanders, Young/Ash/Stephens

Edited September 30, 20195 yr by Gawndog98

On 9/29/2019 at 2:47 PM, titan_uranus said:

Travis Varcoe?

Hell no. His best was 5-10 years ago. We don't need more inconsistent forwards who float in and out of games.

McIntosh I'd be interested in, though. Might free up Salem off half-back.

Varcoe would add pace and class to a side that lacks decent small forwards and wingers. He would come at zero cost in terms of draft picks and modest salary. He would also come with the benefit of a one year deal, whereas pick 88 gets two years.

I would be less inclined to go for Varcoe if we land Elliott.

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

Varcoe would add pace and class to a side that lacks decent small forwards and wingers. He would come at zero cost in terms of draft picks and modest salary. He would also come with the benefit of a one year deal, whereas pick 88 gets two years.

I would be less inclined to go for Varcoe if we land Elliott.

Varcoe is going to be 32 when the 2020 season starts. Too old for me.

Yes, I know, we may not need another bull, but if Ben King is a no go, I'd put pick 3 down on the table for Tim Taranto and that way GWS get their man, but we get a guy who is trending upwards is an incredible way.

Oliver, Taranto, Harmes. That's a tough, ball-winning trio. The guy is 19 and had a super consistent year at GWS.

Thoughts...

 

Edited September 30, 20195 yr by A F
Oh and it doesn't hurt that Taranto supported Melbourne as a kid. ;)

And since I'm on a roll tonight, maybe Jeremy Cameron is gettable on a 6-7 year contract? 

24 minutes ago, A F said:

Yes, I know, we may not need another bull, but if Ben King is a no go, I'd put pick 3 down on the table for Tim Taranto and that way GWS get their man, but we get a guy who is trending upwards is an incredible way.

Oliver, Taranto, Harmes. That's a tough, ball-winning trio. The guy is 19 and had a super consistent year at GWS.

Thoughts...

 

Taranto is 21, will be 22 next season and just signed on until 2022. Nice idea, but the Giants aren't letting him go.

9 minutes ago, A F said:

And since I'm on a roll tonight, maybe Jeremy Cameron is gettable on a 6-7 year contract? 

I'm not convinced he'll be a 1 club player but the Giants can't afford to lose him after Finlayson's grand final and Himmelberg's quiet September. He'd also be so expensive in a trade you'd almost ask him to become a free agent. A team can't afford to pay him 2 million a season and trade the picks required to get him as well.

Personally I don't think he's worth it but you'd offer him 10 mil over 5 years from 2021 if you wanted him.

Edited September 30, 20195 yr by DeeSpencer

41 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Taranto is 21, will be 22 next season and just signed on until 2022. Nice idea, but the Giants aren't letting him go.

Good call. He was in the 2016 draft. Thought it was strange he was only 19. What a derper.

Quote

I'm not convinced he'll be a 1 club player but the Giants can't afford to lose him after Finlayson's grand final and Himmelberg's quiet September. He'd also be so expensive in a trade you'd almost ask him to become a free agent. A team can't afford to pay him 2 million a season and trade the picks required to get him as well.

Very true too. Shut up, A F. Let's get back on the Ben King train.

Edited September 30, 20195 yr by A F

17 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Varcoe would add pace and class to a side that lacks decent small forwards and wingers. He would come at zero cost in terms of draft picks and modest salary. He would also come with the benefit of a one year deal, whereas pick 88 gets two years.

I would be less inclined to go for Varcoe if we land Elliott.

Varcoe isn't the answer we need a better longer term one

Kamdyn McIntosh and Zac Langdon

 

We don't even have close to the money required to get Cameron so best to just stop talking about that now

Aside from the 3 blokes we're heavily targeting (Langdon, tomlinson, Elliott), I like the idea of Dan Butler or Zac Langdon from the Giants 

It would be amazing to land Elliott as Free Agents and Langdon as Freo trade. Early Xmas!

This article looks at every club’s needs in the coming trade & draft period -

Trade, free agency, draft: Your club's list needs

ED Langdon is a must, he has pace and muscle to hit and tackle.

Tomlinson we have been sort of after for many years. This is the ideal time.

Jamie Elliot for Weideman.  ( to replace garlett)      Tom McDonald at CHF replacing Weideman

Joel Smith FF if he is fit

We need a driving kick half back flanker. We tried hunt but he kicked it up in the air.

There is no certainty Viney will get games. He cant kick or mark. His few shots at goal drop short or go wide.

Anderson would have been my No.3 pick, but may get picked up by GC No. 2.    Serong I don't know too much about, is he the Collingwood legends Grandson?

Billy stretch must go. Too afraid to kick. Garlett gone. Keilty, Tim Smith and Lewis gone Walker gone.

Gawn to Captain.  Harmes to V.C his improvement in the past 2 years has been rapid.

7 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

Jamie Elliot for Weideman.

1.  Elliot is a free agent and doesn't require a trade.

2.  That would be a terrible trade anyway!

6 minutes ago, demonstone said:

1.  Elliot is a free agent and doesn't require a trade.

2.  That would be a terrible trade anyway!

your opinion

4 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

your opinion

Well it’s obviously a bad trade if we don’t need to trade for him! Also he’s a young tall forward prospect, would be of great value to many teams. 

9 hours ago, DemonLad5 said:

We don't even have close to the money required to get Cameron so best to just stop talking about that now

Aside from the 3 blokes we're heavily targeting (Langdon, tomlinson, Elliott), I like the idea of Dan Butler or Zac Langdon from the Giants 

How can that be. Every Club must make min Salary cap payments.

2 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

How can that be. Every Club must make min Salary cap payments.

Maybe because we picked up Lever and May in the last 2 seasons who both are on $800k+?

Not to mention Gawn is out of contract next season, as is Viney.

You want to still be flexible 

33 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

ED Langdon is a must, he has pace and muscle to hit and tackle.

Tomlinson we have been sort of after for many years. This is the ideal time.

Jamie Elliot for Weideman.  ( to replace garlett)      Tom McDonald at CHF replacing Weideman

Joel Smith FF if he is fit

We need a driving kick half back flanker. We tried hunt but he kicked it up in the air.

There is no certainty Viney will get games. He cant kick or mark. His few shots at goal drop short or go wide.

Anderson would have been my No.3 pick, but may get picked up by GC No. 2.    Serong I don't know too much about, is he the Collingwood legends Grandson?

Billy stretch must go. Too afraid to kick. Garlett gone. Keilty, Tim Smith and Lewis gone Walker gone.

Gawn to Captain.  Harmes to V.C his improvement in the past 2 years has been rapid.

Elliot is a free agent so no need to trade the Weed.

4 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

Maybe because we picked up Lever and May in the last 2 seasons who both are on $800k+?

Not to mention Gawn is out of contract next season, as is Viney.

You want to still be flexible 

Well yes, then it is a question of balance rather than not having the money to afford a gun.

4 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

This article looks at every club’s needs in the coming trade & draft period -

Trade, free agency, draft: Your club's list needs

Melbourne

List needs

1. Outside speed
2. Rebounding defender
3. General forward

Draft picks: 3, 22, 40, 58, 76

Who should they target? Melbourne's midfield is slow, so Ed Langdon would add significant outside run and speed, improving the balance of the team.

With Trent McKenzie unable to establish himself for Port Adelaide, his penetrating kick would be a welcome addition to defence well and add a much-needed punch if available.

Considering Gold Coast received a priority pick, Melbourne will likely add Caleb Serong to improve their front half.

Personally all for the idea of trading our future first round pick if that can get us a second selection in the first round this year. 

if we could somehow wrangle a pick between 7-9 for our future first and something else perhaps we could get Lachie Ash and Hayden Young/Sam Flanders/Brodie Kemp

41 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

Personally all for the idea of trading our future first round pick if that can get us a second selection in the first round this year. 

if we could somehow wrangle a pick between 7-9 for our future first and something else perhaps we could get Lachie Ash and Hayden Young/Sam Flanders/Brodie Kemp

It seems like a bit of a no brainer to try and trade our future first rounder this year, and see who bites. We must improve in 2020 and we can't wait until 2021.

We need to back ourselves to improve next year and if we don't, we'll need to trade players out anyway, which should enable us to trade back into the first round in 2020.