6 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

If we're going down this road then:

1) He shouldn't be playing. He should be getting right for next year.

2) He should give up the captaincy given he's such a risk and is apparently not around for most of the preseason.

3) He should have learned from how he handled his injury the first time that he's being selfish if he doesn't listen this time.

Trust is one of the biggest things in footy clubs, how much can we say we trust Jack to do all those things?

He needs to play, he isn't injured

He was injured all pre-season, not around, I'm sure he was doing his rehab program

Was he being selfish or the club mis-managing him, the club has a pretty poor record on re-occuring foot injuries with some players

The club has serious issues that unfortunately is in the culture of the club, no matter what coach or captain we have the club has a losing culture for half a century. We are a mile off a premiership just have the to many poorly skilled by hand and foot players. It will take a long time to get the required players to improve our list.

Just now, drdrake said:

He needs to play, he isn't injured

He was injured all pre-season, not around, I'm sure he was doing his rehab program

Was he being selfish or the club mis-managing him, the club has a pretty poor record on re-occuring foot injuries with some players

The club has serious issues that unfortunately is in the culture of the club, no matter what coach or captain we have the club has a losing culture for half a century. We are a mile off a premiership just have the to many poorly skilled by hand and foot players. It will take a long time to get the required players to improve our list.

I believe it was Jack himself that made the call about the return from injury, and that the medical advice at the time was he shouldn't play. From memory, he came out and admitted that when the injury resurfaced.

My comments about him not playing was based around the assertion by others that he's playing injured. Seems to be a common consensus here so I'm just going by that info.

I agree the culture has been terrible, absolutely no argument from me about that, and I absolutely love a lot of things about Jack, but just because he plays hard it doesn't mean he's doing anything to improve our culture. I'm not saying he is or he isn't of course.

In the end, my only problems with him are his lack of directional leadership (not all his fault, but it's what we need out there) and his decision making, especially given he's the co-captain of a team with notoriously bad inside 50 delivery.

I think Jack is a very limited football player. The only role that I think fits the skill set he does have is a run with / shut down role. Mind you, he would need to leave his ego back in the change room for him to play this role well. But with no ego, I believe he could well become one of the best shut down players in the comp. Of course, all this assumes he is fit. 

3 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

I think Jack is a very limited football player. The only role that I think fits the skill set he does have is a run with / shut down role. Mind you, he would need to leave his ego back in the change room for him to play this role well. But with no ego, I believe he could well become one of the best shut down players in the comp. Of course, all this assumes he is fit. 

Reckon youve nailed it. Unsure whether  other powers that be would facilitate. 

 

Was hoping Viney would be a catalyst in changing the player culture of the club. Unfortunately it doesn't look that way. It was a lot to hope for though given the long and distinguished history of shirking the work within our club.

Starting to wonder whether there's ever been a leader in the AFL who could get consistent competitiveness out of a modern MFC playing group.

12 hours ago, Kent said:

If he is injured then DONT PLAY HIM

I don't believe he's injured per se - or at least, no more injured than a lot of players are through the season.

He is though seriously lacking in pre-season fitness, and all that it brings. The Wayne Carey comments re the importance of pre-season in his article were revealing, so god knows where that leaves JV, who hasn't had a full pre-season since 2015.

8 minutes ago, bing181 said:

I don't believe he's injured per se - or at least, no more injured than a lot of players are through the season.

He is though seriously lacking in pre-season fitness, and all that it brings. The Wayne Carey comments re the importance of pre-season in his article were revealing, so god knows where that leaves JV, who hasn't had a full pre-season since 2015.

You dont think his own admission  he came back too early  has no bearing ? 

The word injury gets bandied around. Injuries, sub-fit, susceptible  niggle, underdone. Could all be the same thing.

Reality is he played sub-capable.. at his own volition. 

Hopefully  a full preseason might help. 

Lets roĺl with that.

12 hours ago, drdrake said:

Common sense, the bloke hasn't done a pre-season in 2 years

I think you'll find he hasn't done a full pre-season for 3 years. 2016 he had hip surgery, 2017 was the foot, 2018 was the ankle plus the foot.

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Reckon youve nailed it. Unsure whether  other powers that be would facilitate. 

 

The SAs

could we, would we trade him?

21 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

I think Jack is a very limited football player. The only role that I think fits the skill set he does have is a run with / shut down role. Mind you, he would need to leave his ego back in the change room for him to play this role well. But with no ego, I believe he could well become one of the best shut down players in the comp. Of course, all this assumes he is fit. 

Ego is the key word with Viney (and a few of his teammates). There is absolutely no need for Viney to take on tacklers or try and crash through packs the way he does. He might have got away with it in junior football as the hardest nut on the field, but it doesn't work at AFL level. I still think he can be a really good player, but he needs to play the percentages a lot better than he does at present.

Cut our losses and trade

24 minutes ago, olisik said:

Cut our losses and trade

Wouldnt get much.

1 minute ago, KingDingAling said:

Wouldnt get much.

2nd rounder

1 hour ago, olisik said:

2nd rounder

If you think we’d trade Jack for a 2nd rounder your kidding yourself. Nor should we do it.

1 minute ago, Murph1524 said:

If you think we’d trade Jack for a 2nd rounder your kidding yourself. Nor should we do it.

Why not? If we bring in Anderson someone needs to make room for him. Who do you suggest is the one to be pushed out?

4x Premiership winner Jason Dunstall said pre-game tonight that Viney would be the player to trade to seek to fix the balance in our midfield.

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

4x Premiership winner Jason Dunstall said pre-game tonight that Viney would be the player to trade to seek to fix the balance in our midfield.

100% agree. Unlike some of the commentators on Fox, Dunstall often talks  a lot of sense.

4 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

4x Premiership winner Jason Dunstall said pre-game tonight that Viney would be the player to trade to seek to fix the balance in our midfield.

The Chief has quietly run Whorethorn for years

Smart Operator

Gawn is the only untouchable in my opinion 

We need massive changes. What we have has gone off. It stinks

9 minutes ago, olisik said:

Why not? If we bring in Anderson someone needs to make room for him. Who do you suggest is the one to be pushed out?

I feel like a 5 man of Clayton, Brayshaw, Viney, Anderson and Harmes would go well. Anderson can play more outside and even push forward more than the others is I don’t think it’ll be as big a problem

Edited August 16, 20195 yr by Murph1524

Where would Viney play when his rotated out of the guts? Honestly I think if Coniglio leaves GWS they would be interested in Viney.

Edited August 16, 20195 yr by olisik

Viney doesn't inspire much as a captain. Infront of the MCC members in the 3rd qtr, he didn't chase a Sydney player, he jogged. Yes the season is over but I want a captain with a never say die attitude. How can he lift the team around him if he cannot lift himself. 

He's one week away from by some miracle getting through the season and having a chance to actually train over summer with his team mates.

The pace and running problems of our midfield can easily be solved with Jack Viney if he's healthy - he'll cover the kms with work rate and has more than enough burst speed. He doesn't help the kicking skills problem but if Oliver, Harmes and Gus aren't going to use the ball better with Viney why are they going to use it better without him?

 

3 hours ago, olisik said:

Cut our losses and trade

Our midfields problem is balance around stoppages - something that is so easily coachable I have no idea why it has been so consistently poor, and work rate - these guys cant run both ways, they’re just unfit and unmotivated (can’t blame them). 

Looks like I’m one of the few who actually rates Viney. Hasnt had 2-3 seasons without being on/off wtih injuries but has slowly been finding plenty of footy, lays tackles and has that powerful speed to get the ball out of stoppages. Needs to drop the captaincy, will greatly benefit his game. 

Ideally I’d have him and clayton rotating with a Vandenberg/Petracca type as the stoppage ball-winners with someone like Harmes hanging outside to distribute. 

1 hour ago, Murph1524 said:

I feel like a 5 man of Clayton, Brayshaw, Viney, Anderson and Harmes would go well. Anderson can play more outside and even push forward more than the others is I don’t think it’ll be as big a problem

If we’re hanging our club’s future on an 18 year old kid saving our midfield structure we may as well go back to the days of Dean Bailey throwing Jack Watts under an enormous bus