Its the captain stupid

[beelzebub 23,376]

I wonder if Hodge would have just stood on the other side of the pitch looking at Sidebottom ??  ...i wonder 

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

Thankyou for this thread. Those clips of 2 Captains says it all. 

I have never been happy with Jones as Captain. It is not a natural for him. 

He is a worker. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 hours ago, billyblanks29 said:

When Jordan won 3 championships with the Bulls the captain was Bill Cartwright and when he left the team didn't win anymore championships even with Jordan.

 

1 hour ago, praha said:

"When Jordan won 3 championships with the Bulls the captain was Bill Cartwright and when he left the team didn't win anymore championships even with Jordan."

Jordan won 6 championships. Three of which when he was captain, after Cartwright retired.

Plus, he was a co-captain with Jordan, not captain outright, and only for one year, plus only played about half the time in the second 2 championships.

[Deemania since 56 6,639]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

Because of his style and lack of real footy smarts the team has been influenced to play Jones style over many years.

A very valid point and it has always been observable - yet on occasion, he drove some great rallies and made some keen decisions. It was consistency and the gathering of statistics for his efforts that cruelled his game; thus, mid-career he began breeding an urgency to 'bomb it long' and let the recipient wear the consequences.

Viney was also quick to adopt this habit, at the expense of his 'once'-short passing excellence and rapid ball movement. Too concerned with being a hit man/hard man at the expense of efficient team play was our dual captain. 

[drdrake 3,163]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Without doubt we have enormous skills issues

We have NO leadership. Our games are played out rudderless.

What leadership does is harness and direct what assets you DO have.

Look at Lions pre Hodge..and Now.  That's no accident.

When you turn the footy over like we do making basic skill execution errors you will not win games of Football, no leader in the history of the game would improve our results from this year, we just give the Footy away

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

11 minutes ago, drdrake said:

When you turn the footy over like we do making basic skill execution errors you will not win games of Football, no leader in the history of the game would improve our results from this year, we just give the Footy away

Better Captains will demand better skills from the team. Including themselves 

Our Captains are both bog ? ordinary sadly. 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

2 hours ago, Lamberto Bava said:

I was disappointed with Jones after the Round 1 loss. Someone asked him if they would do some soul searching given the nature of the loss. His response was "it's one game, $#! + happens." I thought that was a very poor attitude and this season has shown that the fish rots from the head. 

No offence LB, but if I hear that phrase one more time I'm going to spew up. 

It's a dumb, nothing phrase that comes from a lack of nuance.

'Drain the swamp' is the other one, thanks to Donald.

[billyblanks29 184]

Its a hard one because Jones is a loyal champ of the MFC, but when he leaves the side I dare say we'll be better for it. I'd say he has at least 1 maybe 2 years to go.

[Fork 'em 6,983]

4 hours ago, america de cali said:

Hmm.... Jones is mostly vocal when he want teammates to pass the ball to him. And what’s happened to all the tackles he used to apply? Hodge reads the game like a chess master. No wonder the Lions now look so well drilled and organised. 

And the Dawks won multiple flags with Hodge down one end and Roughy up the other.
Can we get Roughy as a forward coach?
 

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by Fork 'em

[Deemania since 56 6,639]

3 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

No offence LB, but if I hear that phrase one more time I'm going to spew up. 

It's a dumb, nothing phrase that comes from a lack of nuance.

'Drain the swamp' is the other one, thanks to Donald.

Additionally, Moonshadow, ' ... one more time I'm going to spew up...' is another dumb, nothing phrase that emanates from the intolerant when those of interest confirm generalisations of opinion.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

I listened to the Hodge one first. Not really any surprise there.

When you play cricket, you (the team) are always saying "talk it up boys" "let's have plenty of noise" etc etc. It's not really sledging, more like keeping your team revved up. (There's a bit of sledging involved.) Some are naturals at the talk. Some have to be constantly encouraged, and some don't really have it in them and go through the motions. (They can still be good players though.)

Jones sounds like the latter. Hodge clearly comes across as a teacher and coach, whereas Jones has to lead by example. That of course relies on him playing well and boosting the other players by making an example. So if he's not playing well ........

Change of captains urgently needed. We can't go through this again next year.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

3 hours ago, billyblanks29 said:

Its a hard one because Jones is a loyal champ of the MFC, but when he leaves the side I dare say we'll be better for it. I'd say he has at least 1 maybe 2 years to go.

2018 and 2019?

 

I don't want to crucify the guy, he's earned all the plaudits he will rightfully get when he hangs up the boots ... but we're heading for an existential crisis if things don't turn around.  Club needs to tap NJ on the shoulder and tell him he's decided to retire honourably, or at least pass the captaincy on to the next generation and go on a performance based contract, year by year.

[deespicable me 1,486]

I feel sad that Jones has such a minor impact on games these days.

He's been taken away from his normal 'in and under' role and has probably (with over a years evidence in front of us) gone backwards. I know Jonesey is a limited footballer but the coaches seem to want to highlight his weaknesses rather than his strengths. Gee it's a hard gig for a bloke like Jones to play wing, he's not super quick and his disposal although improved is nowhere near elite. He still wants to get the ball around the fifty and kick the inspirational goal, it's become his thing like Dunne kicking torps to no-one in particular from full-back. And yet I think he's only kicked a handful of goals all year. I mean what are the coaches doing.

As a further contrast look at a bloke like Stephens who has obviously struggled but when given the right role showed emphatically he can still play.

As for the captaincy, for mine, it should be one player only, dual Captaincy "out".

[Moonshadow 17,676]

41 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Additionally, Moonshadow, ' ... one more time I'm going to spew up...' is another dumb, nothing phrase that emanates from the intolerant when those of interest confirm generalisations of opinion.

Glad you're paying attention.

[tiers 2,840]

I posted this a couple of weeks ago. Nothing has changed on field but it is clear that we need a captain who acts as a leader on the field by voice and by actions. The job can be shared but there must be only one captain on the team sheet.

It's funny how in the history of the game that in many cases the best captain is the best leader with the coolest head, not the gun player.

Think Harley and Ling at cats, Davis at GWS, Easton at dogs, Hurn at toasters and many others.

Who is our born leader with a cool head who can lift the side? Not Max because he is too busy being the best ruckman in the game and definitely not Viney who seems to believe that there is never too much stupid effort.

My preferred options include TMac (who is always seen directing the team in close games), a versatile Tracca who has become the papa bear in the forward line (he is the one patting heads when team mates come to him after doing well) and has a football brain.

Any other choices that fit the bill?

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

6 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Compare these clips.
The difference is stark.

 

 

Reasonable point but not entirely fair given Jones was playing as one of if not the teams most damaging midfielders at that time, you'd hope there's some stoppage structure stuff he's doing in there but otherwise his job was more to get the ball, tackle, provide constructive praise for his team mates and he was doing all of that.

Hodge was playing the role of backline general and the backline's always got the most chance to set up and work together given they can adjust to where the ball is and where their opponents are. When Hodge was in the midfield in the prime of his career he was probably still talking a lot about stoppage set ups but was probably getting yelled at by Gibson about the backline system.

Really the video highlights the importance of having leaders across all 3 lines.

May and Lever are surely the guys who will be tasked to organise the backline and if Jones signs on and gets a role across half back I'd imagine he'd be part of that.

[Sorry kids 635]

Goodwin said just last week that Viney and Joney are magnificent leaders of the Club.

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

32 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

Goodwin said just last week that Viney and Joney are magnificent leaders of the Club.

Yes i heard that...

interesting preseason coming up

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

1 hour ago, tiers said:

I posted this a couple of weeks ago. Nothing has changed on field but it is clear that we need a captain who acts as a leader on the field by voice and by actions. The job can be shared but there must be only one captain on the team sheet.

It's funny how in the history of the game that in many cases the best captain is the best leader with the coolest head, not the gun player.

Think Harley and Ling at cats, Davis at GWS, Easton at dogs, Hurn at toasters and many others.

Who is our born leader with a cool head who can lift the side? Not Max because he is too busy being the best ruckman in the game and definitely not Viney who seems to believe that there is never too much stupid effort.

My preferred options include TMac (who is always seen directing the team in close games), a versatile Tracca who has become the papa bear in the forward line (he is the one patting heads when team mates come to him after doing well) and has a football brain.

Any other choices that fit the bill?

Lever, even though he is still not fully match fit.

Edited August 12, 2019 by america de cali

[Dee Dubya 220]

We need a Donald Trump like leader.

[beelzebub 23,376]

1 hour ago, Sorry kids said:

Goodwin said just last week that Viney and Joney are magnificent leaders of the Club.

And there  my friends is the problem in a nutshell. 

God help us

[Sorry kids 635]

14 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

And there  my friends is the problem in a nutshell. 

God help us

He is not to be trusted. Just a feeling, now a belief.

[daisycutter 29,616]

2 hours ago, Sorry kids said:

Goodwin said just last week that Viney and Joney are magnificent leaders of the Club.

is that like when the chairman says "we are completely happy with the coach"?   

[Deemania since 56 6,639]

2 hours ago, tiers said:

I posted this a couple of weeks ago. Nothing has changed on field but it is clear that we need a captain who acts as a leader on the field by voice and by actions. The job can be shared but there must be only one captain on the team sheet.

It's funny how in the history of the game that in many cases the best captain is the best leader with the coolest head, not the gun player.

Think Harley and Ling at cats, Davis at GWS, Easton at dogs, Hurn at toasters and many others.

Who is our born leader with a cool head who can lift the side? Not Max because he is too busy being the best ruckman in the game and definitely not Viney who seems to believe that there is never too much stupid effort.

My preferred options include TMac (who is always seen directing the team in close games), a versatile Tracca who has become the papa bear in the forward line (he is the one patting heads when team mates come to him after doing well) and has a football brain.

Any other choices that fit the bill?

These are some of the thoughts that matter for a team in a massive rebuild, such as the MFC.

 

[Deemania since 56 6,639]

41 minutes ago, Dee Dubya said:

We need a Donald Trump like leader.

Oh, Dear! We need a brain, first. A fully focussed hard nut with common sense.