WELCOME TO DEMONLAND - ADAM TOMLINSON

[CHF 2,817]

I believe that this deal is over the line and will be one of the first inked.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

1 hour ago, binman said:

That's not a solution. 

 

1 hour ago, binman said:

Again. Thats not a solution.

The solution is fast, outside mids

The process is outside of my remit

Tomlinson will not solve our needs and my solution

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,525]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I'm quite happy with Tomlinson but we have quite a few average role players.  Just not sure we need another one, even if he is better than those we have.  I would be a lot happier if we had not signed up role players in ANB, the two Wagners etc with other role players in contract.  At some point we need impact players.

Tbh, I would rather keep the spot on our list vacant for a year rather than commit to another role player albeit versatile, for a 3-4 year contract.  At the quoted rate that is $1.2 to $1.6 of our salary cap.  I know by 'free' you mean draft picks/trades but that sort of money in a tight sal cap doesn't make him 'free'.

The average AFL players wage by 2022 is expected to be 371K.  Recruiting a player with 140 games experience for 400K a season is a good deal.  

We’d be paying him slightly above the average wage for a quality player who has played the 5th most games for his club.

 

[Ethan Tremblay 31,271]

1 hour ago, Demon Disciple said:

Do we know what each is relatively asking for though @Ethan Tremblay?

I was told Frost is asking 250k more per season than what we’ll be paying Tomlinson. Guessing around 400k vs 650k.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Ethan Tremblay

[binman 44,683]

11 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

 

The solution is fast, outside mids

The process is outside of my remit

Tomlinson will not solve our needs and my solution

The solution is a Kelly, gaff or a hill. But we won't getting one of those players.

Fast outside mids who have good skills are pretty hard to come by. Really the only option is via the draft. We have pick 3. We have to use that. We have zero currency to trade in a top liner outside mid. Unless we trade Brayshaw. We don't need a fast outside mid. We need a reall5 gid one. And none are free agents or available for our pick 20. 

And by the by, I agree that a fast outside mid is the type of player we need. Have been saying so for years. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by binman

[Moonshadow 17,678]

28 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

Do I detect a climate warrior from the Uber Eats packaging, Bottled water generation, air conditioned driven to school, ?

Quality post.

Worse poster on Demonland 

[Demon Disciple 12,489]

10 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I was told Frost is asking 250k more per season than what we’ll be paying Tomlinson. Guessing around 400k vs 650k.

Well if you are anywhere close to accurate, then i'd agree with the footy department behind that decision.

Frost's worth should be no more than $500k.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Demon Disciple

[Demon Disciple 12,489]

12 minutes ago, binman said:

Fast outside mids who have good skills are pretty hard to come by. Really the only option is via the draft. We have pick 3. We have to use that.

I'm guessing Lachie Ash is your preference then bin?

Edited September 29, 2019 by Demon Disciple

[whatwhat say what 23,624]

18 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I was told Frost is asking 250k more per season than what we’ll be paying Tomlinson. Guessing around 400k vs 650k.

Good grief

Will anyone give him that sort of dosh?

[Adam The God 30,644]

1 hour ago, binman said:

The solution is a Kelly, gaff or a hill. But we won't getting one of those players.

Fast outside mids who have good skills are pretty hard to come by. Really the only option is via the draft. We have pick 3. We have to use that. We have zero currency to trade in a top liner outside mid. Unless we trade Brayshaw. We don't need a fast outside mid. We need a reall5 gid one. And none are free agents or available for our pick 20. 

And by the by, I agree that a fast outside mid is the type of player we need. Have been saying so for years. 

This is the thing. If we want fast outside pace with good foot skills, we have to trade someone.

Those same people lamenting Tomlinson will be up in arms if we traded Brayshaw or Viney. But that's who we should be trading.

Build your midfield around Oliver, Harmes and Petracca. They're all relatively different players. We need to add a kicker to that group. Is it Salem? Maybe, if he can hold down a midfield spot. 

1 hour ago, Demon Disciple said:

Well if you are anywhere close to accurate, then i'd agree with the footy department behind that decision.

Frost's worth should be no more than $500k.

Frost is depth. He should be on much less than $500k, though I don't particularly find debating player salary's with our lack of information that helpful.

[Demon Disciple 12,489]

12 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

Good grief

Will anyone give him that sort of dosh?

Doubt it. Looking at salary cap rules, in 2022 the cap limit will be $13.54m spread across a list.

If only looking at the 40 spot main list that equates to $338,500 per player. If what ET is true, then we would only be able to afford to keep a list of just over 20 players (heck even at 500k we'd only be able to afford 27 players).

Sure Frost provides something we genuinely lack, but his weaknesses (which are more often than not detrimental) should indicate his true worth to us in the scheme of managing our overall list.

[Demonland 73,834]

Let's keep politics out of the footy threads please

[Adam The God 30,644]

54 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Doubt it. Looking at salary cap rules, in 2022 the cap limit will be $13.54m spread across a list.

If only looking at the 40 spot main list that equates to $338,500 per player. If what ET is true, then we would only be able to afford to keep a list of just over 20 players (heck even at 500k we'd only be able to afford 27 players).

Sure Frost provides something we genuinely lack, but his weaknesses (which are more often than not detrimental) should indicate his true worth to us in the scheme of managing our overall list.

One of my mates' cousins is a Hawthorn player. He's relatively experienced and his contract is not quite at that $340k before match payments. I think we vastly inflate what we think players are paid because we have no [censored] idea.

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Therein are some scary tables, JD:

Worst Kicks Inside 50

1. Clayton Oliver (Melbourne): 45 kicks — 8.9 per cent retention rate

3. Ed Langdon (Fremantle): 30 kicks — 16.7 per cent retention rate

I guess the retention rate has a bit to do with how well the forwards defend.  Nonetheless, Oliver and Langdon 1 and 3 worst are a bit of a worry.

A terrible result LH but the way our non-existent forward line up performed this season (ie: it didn't) even the best (Zorko), probably would have produced a 50% lower rating or worse!

We were shocking in the air and on the ground and too crowded far too often i50 (no cohesion/craft)!

Even with our bog ordinary entry skills, a quality forward line up would have converted a fair stack more with the amount of entries (sometimes off the charts from our mids eg vs Geelong early) and produced a decent W/L outcome vs MFC's this season.

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,084]

Deal is far from done

[binman 44,683]

2 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

I'm guessing Lachie Ash is your preference then bin?

I don't know dd. I don't know enough about the draftees to have an informed opinion. But ash does sound the right type.

Above all anyone we draft needs to be an elite kick. Our kicking is, in my opinion, our biggest weakness. And it needs to be addressed.

[GCDee 3,200]

7 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

Good grief

Will anyone give him that sort of dosh?

Norf...

[Lucifers Hero 40,555]

7 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

A terrible result LH but the way our non-existent forward line up performed this season (ie: it didn't) even the best (Zorko), probably would have produced a 50% lower rating or worse!

We were shocking in the air and on the ground and too crowded far too often i50 (no cohesion/craft)!

Even with our bog ordinary entry skills, a quality forward line up would have converted a fair stack more with the amount of entries (sometimes off the charts from our mids eg vs Geelong early) and produced a decent W/L outcome vs MFC's this season.

Agreed Rusty.  It could have as much to do with our forward pressure as the kicking.

What it showed was that our long-chased recruit in Ed Langdon is the 3rd worst in the league.  This dampened my hopes of his recruitment significantly improving the 'connection' with our forward line.

[Lucifers Hero 40,555]

8 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

The average AFL players wage by 2022 is expected to be 371K.  Recruiting a player with 140 games experience for 400K a season is a good deal.  

We’d be paying him slightly above the average wage for a quality player who has played the 5th most games for his club.

I also think that is fair.  But we are tying that up for 3-4 years.  My point was at some stage we need impact players and will need the money to get them.  And having an abundance of 'role players' on good money for 2, 3, 4 years inhibits our ability to get the impact player(s).  So I'm all for Tomlinson but would rather keep the money free by either not recruiting him or letting go of others.

[Lucifers Hero 40,555]

7 hours ago, A F said:

One of my mates' cousins is a Hawthorn player. He's relatively experienced and his contract is not quite at that $340k before match payments. I think we vastly inflate what we think players are paid because we have no [censored] idea.

A good example is Brandon Ellis.  Two time premiership player.  Fast, talented mid.  I was surprised to read that he reportedly would get about $350-$400 if he stayed at Tigers.  He is going to GCS as a Free Agent for a reported $500k pa.  Still not a huge amount.  

He is reportedly very close to his family who are here in Melbourne.  Don't know how we couldn't put up a competitive offer to him.

I wish we could have had Ellis.  Reckon he would probably be better for us than Tomlinson or Langdon.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Ethan Tremblay 31,271]

15 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

A good example is Brandon Ellis.  Two time premiership player.  Fast, talented mid.  I was surprised to read that he reportedly would get about $350-$400 if he stayed at Tigers.  He is going to GCS as a Free Agent for a reported $500k pa.  Still not a huge amount.  

He is reportedly very close to his family who are here in Melbourne.  Don't know how we couldn't put up a competitive offer to him.

I wish we could have had Ellis.  Reckon he would probably be better for us than Tomlinson or Langdon.

How long is the contract if he stays? The below article states he’ll be getting $3 million over 6 years at the Suns. Given the length of contract I reckon he’ll end up making significantly more than if he stays at Richmond. 

I agree he’d be a good addition for us, surely he won’t pass up a six year offer though. 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/afl-trade-news-2019-brandon-ellis-to-gold-coast-restricted-free-agent-tiger-set-for-suns-switch-dual-premiership-player-contract/news-story/b66f3da0866ccf94cd6580fad7028124

Edited September 29, 2019 by Ethan Tremblay

[Kent 2,920]

8 hours ago, A F said:

This is the thing. If we want fast outside pace with good foot skills, we have to trade someone.

Those same people lamenting Tomlinson will be up in arms if we traded Brayshaw or Viney. But that's who we should be trading.

Build your midfield around Oliver, Harmes and Petracca. They're all relatively different players. We need to add a kicker to that group. Is it Salem? Maybe, if he can hold down a midfield spot. 

Frost is depth. He should be on much less than $500k, though I don't particularly find debating player salary's with our lack of information that helpful.

Exactly all speculation! For all I know Frost could be on 400K now or 500 Who knows? So discussing salarys is just noise.

[Lucifers Hero 40,555]

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

How long is the contract if he stays? The below article states he’ll be getting $3 million over 6 years at the Suns. Given the length of contract I reckon he’ll end up making significantly more than if he stays at Richmond. 

I agree he’d be a good addition for us, surely he won’t pass up a six year offer though. 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/afl-trade-news-2019-brandon-ellis-to-gold-coast-restricted-free-agent-tiger-set-for-suns-switch-dual-premiership-player-contract/news-story/b66f3da0866ccf94cd6580fad7028124

I wasn't suggestion he should stay at Richmond.  More an example in response to how fans overestimate what players earn ie Ellis would reportedly get $350k ish if he stayed.  

That article is an update on the one I read.  It is saying $3m over 5 years which is $600k pa.  $600k  may put him our of our reach.  But I would rather spend that on him than two existing 'depth' role players or one existing role player plus one of the mooted new recruits especially as Ellis is a Free Agent, an 'impact' player.

re the 5 years, clubs are getting creative on length of contract eg Gaff, Kelly and I think Coniglio signed 7+ year contracts but there are a few 'outs' built into them. 

I would like to think that we can also be creative on contract length, terms and shape.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[whatwhat say what 23,624]

Ellis is an RFA as he was on $600k a year at the Tigers too - he’d only have to take a haircut to stay cos they have recruited heavily with the likes of Prestia and Lynch, and paid big money to Martin to retain him

 

[Nelo 813]

So it seems like it will be Frost out and Tomlinson in. Immediate downgrade. Great start to the trade period. ?