Midfield strength

[Older demon 2,779]

At the start of the year we were touted as having the best midfield in the competition. This certainly hasn't been the case on the evidence shown in 17 rounds of football. The KPI I don't like is clearances and inside 50's which suggest our mids are getting plenty of the ball and there is a disconnect with the forward line.

I have looked at the midfield depth of other clubs and their marquee players and come to the conclusion that our midfield is inexperienced, shallow in depth and is lacking skill and kicking efficiency. I hope that this draft we look to bring some class and speed into the mix.

To prove my point I am comparing Max, Clarry, Gus, Harmes & Viney with other teams. Max and Viney are experienced but Clarry, Gus and Harmes are still learning the caper. Of this group I consider only Harmes able to hit targets on a regular basis. It is fair to also include the others who may run through the midfield ie wings and flankers, to see how we match up. At the top we have WestCoast with 2 rucks feeding Shuey, Yeo, Sheed, Gaff & Masten with Ryan and Rioli as rovers. The Pies carry 2 rucks feeding Pendlebury, Adams, Crisp, Sidebottom, Treloar, Phillips and Wells. Both have players who hit targets up forward and pace.
Yesterday English was removed from the ruck and they let Bontempelli, Dunkley, MacCrae and Hunter run wild and still have Libba and Wallis to return. Geelong try 2 rucks but have Danger, Kelly Selwood, Duncan, Guthrie, Ablett, and this year have added  Myers, Dalhaus and Clarke to the mix.

Our support group is Fritch (efficiency 50%) Hunt (quick but awful kick) Trac (who should be in the midfield but gets lost sometimes on the half forward flank) Salem (needed down back) Melksham (injured and sadly missed) Vandenburg (perpetually injured). Special cases are  Lewis (Last season) and  Jones (better kick on either foot than Clarrie & Gus but rarely in the middle).

In comparison our mids is still young compared to those I have mentioned with Jack the reader being a bull rather than the cream. I don't despair that this year we have gone backwards and maybe next year won't be as good as we expect because I believe we need to develop a lot more before we can consistently play finals and challenge. We need goal kicking mids, centreline and half forward players. We need more class, speed and midfield depth in my opinion. A good old fashioned rover would be a godsend i.e the Papley, Gresham, Rioli, Betts, Tipungwuti type.

What do you think?

[chookrat 4,268]

3 hours ago, Older demon said:

At the start of the year we were touted as having the best midfield in the competition. This certainly hasn't been the case on the evidence shown in 17 rounds of football. The KPI I don't like is clearances and inside 50's which suggest our mids are getting plenty of the ball and there is a disconnect with the forward line.

I have looked at the midfield depth of other clubs and their marquee players and come to the conclusion that our midfield is inexperienced, shallow in depth and is lacking skill and kicking efficiency. I hope that this draft we look to bring some class and speed into the mix.

To prove my point I am comparing Max, Clarry, Gus, Harmes & Viney with other teams. Max and Viney are experienced but Clarry, Gus and Harmes are still learning the caper. Of this group I consider only Harmes able to hit targets on a regular basis. It is fair to also include the others who may run through the midfield ie wings and flankers, to see how we match up. At the top we have WestCoast with 2 rucks feeding Shuey, Yeo, Sheed, Gaff & Masten with Ryan and Rioli as rovers. The Pies carry 2 rucks feeding Pendlebury, Adams, Crisp, Sidebottom, Treloar, Phillips and Wells. Both have players who hit targets up forward and pace.
Yesterday English was removed from the ruck and they let Bontempelli, Dunkley, MacCrae and Hunter run wild and still have Libba and Wallis to return. Geelong try 2 rucks but have Danger, Kelly Selwood, Duncan, Guthrie, Ablett, and this year have added  Myers, Dalhaus and Clarke to the mix.

Our support group is Fritch (efficiency 50%) Hunt (quick but awful kick) Trac (who should be in the midfield but gets lost sometimes on the half forward flank) Salem (needed down back) Melksham (injured and sadly missed) Vandenburg (perpetually injured). Special cases are  Lewis (Last season) and  Jones (better kick on either foot than Clarrie & Gus but rarely in the middle).

In comparison our mids is still young compared to those I have mentioned with Jack the reader being a bull rather than the cream. I don't despair that this year we have gone backwards and maybe next year won't be as good as we expect because I believe we need to develop a lot more before we can consistently play finals and challenge. We need goal kicking mids, centreline and half forward players. We need more class, speed and midfield depth in my opinion. A good old fashioned rover would be a godsend i.e the Papley, Gresham, Rioli, Betts, Tipungwuti type.

What do you think?

I think our poor kicking is less about skill and more about confidence and trust between players. That is the player kicking has enough time, space and options to execute the kick or handball to recievers advantage and trusts the recieving player to mark or take ball cleanly and not turn it over. At the moment we don't have this 'connection' which means we either cannot score because we are playing too defensively or we get opened up and opposition scores when we turn ball over.

[Adam The God 30,407]

Our midfield's biggest problem is that it doesn't defend. We basically have 3 attackers and one defensive mid at every stoppage. That's great if we win it, although the opposition expects this and closes us down. But if we lose it, we basically surrender a score going the other way with only one tackler defending.

I reckon we a need a new midfield coach and a new game plan at stoppages, or at least a more adaptable stoppage game.

Edited July 15, 2019 by A F

[dpositive 1,683]

I reckon the biggest problem is our disposal is often done when we are off balance. Part of this is that no shepherding is occurring to make aand protect space.

An initial release is made and no shepherd or attempt to stop the receiver being tackled.

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

We were killed for pace by Essendon early in the season and by Neale and Zorko against Brisbane. 

Oliver, Harmes and Viney aren't slow but they need to get even sharper in two way efforts from stoppages as well as across the ground.

As good as Gawn is he's also a bit of a liability at centre bounces compared with some rucks who can chase down opposition mids and can also be used as effective clearance players. So often a Clarry handball goes to a stationary Gawn who then struggles to get a kick away. 

Then there's Brayshaw who's too slow entirely to be in the centre clearances if he can't pick up his defensive transition and Petracca who's lazy in swapping to defensive work and lazy around the ground.

At stoppages teams hold Oliver and rove to Gawn. Our best clearances have all come with Viney who actually has the pace and smarts to read a tap and get moving forward with the ball. Unfortunately it then means he has to kick it.

Outside mid has been spoken about in depth. I still have a decent amount of faith in Fritsch and I like Baker as a developmental player who needs a huge summer. Otherwise the cupboard is bare.

[Supermercado 2,802]

1 hour ago, dpositive said:

I reckon the biggest problem is our disposal is often done when we are off balance. Part of this is that no shepherding is occurring to make aand protect space.

An initial release is made and no shepherd or attempt to stop the receiver being tackled.

I'm with you on this. And half the time they don't get in place for a return handball, just dispose of it and drop off the contest. It's terrible. When somebody does one it stands out because they're so infrequent.

[DeeZee 7,445]

I just think we have too much of the same type of player in contested ball getters like Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw who can’t all play in the middle together because only one can extract ball right?

From then on you need to use it, and I believe we simply don’t have enough good runners and users.

Trying to play contested ball players like Brayshaw on the wing doesn’t really work.

[binman 43,757]

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

 

At stoppages teams hold Oliver and rove to Gawn. Our best clearances have all come with Viney who actually has the pace and smarts to read a tap and get moving forward with the ball. Unfortunately it then means he has to kick it.

 

All good points.

It is really noticeable this  year how well schooled other teams are on where gawn likes to tap it. And the good mids are really taking advantage of it. The lions being the best example.

Teams are tagging Oliver and he simply does not seem to get a free for being held and impeded at centre bounces. Umpires seem to hate him, I suspect because he is lippy. Which is yet another reason to have professional umpires because that should not be a factor in making a decision.

And viney is such a woeful kick teams are ok to let him free.

[spirit of norm smith 16,588]

Answer.  Hill and Langdon or similar types.  We need two skilful wing types that run and deliver. Fritsch may be likely but I prefer him at half forward. 

None of our mids are particularly skilled or fast.  Their disposal is average at best.  That’s Viney Oliver Harmes Brayshaw and Jones.  

Our entries into the fwd50 reflect this. It’s the biggest challenge.

 

[poita 3,902]

11 hours ago, dpositive said:

I reckon the biggest problem is our disposal is often done when we are off balance. Part of this is that no shepherding is occurring to make aand protect space.

An initial release is made and no shepherd or attempt to stop the receiver being tackled.

On this point, I am convinced that certainly Oliver and probably Brayshaw are playing hurt. Last year they would draw an opponent, hand off the ball and take the hit themselves. This year they can't wait to hand off the ball, often to a player who is in a worse position. I suspect that Oliver is struggling with his shoulders.

There is no doubt that our midfielders, with the exception of Harmes, don't work hard enough defensively. With Brayshaw and Oliver both having zero impact on Sunday, there was a clear opportunity to give one of those a defensive job on Dunkley to try and reduce his influence. 

Our midfield depth is non-existent, as it has been for several years. Offloading Tyson and his salary was one thing, but not replacing him was inexcusable. 

[Lucifers Hero 40,359]

I'm all for putting players in their natural positions and settle the team for the next 6 games and as for the W/L que, sera, sera. 

That means:

• Gus in the midfield.  As others have said we are styfling his development on the wing as we did when we played him in the fwd pocket a few years ago.  Jones and now Lewis have taken his spot. Time to put him where he is most damaging injury permitting).  Their is room for him in the midfield with Harmes, Viney and Oliver as our mids spend about 80% game time on filed, the 4 can easily rotate off the bench for the whole game.
• Fristch and Baker on the wings. 
• Backline is fairly settled so time to get the cohesion going.
• Jones has found his niche in defence
• Lewis?  Love everything he brings to our club but would rather he not play as he won't be there in 2020 and this is get ready for 2020 time.  If he must play put him fwd.
• Not much we can do about the fwd line with a number of our best out.  But we can settle the rest of the team as above.

As an aside, Mahoney in a 3AW interview lauded Petracca's strength and ability to clear the ball from stoppages.  For mine it is another reason for Lewis to not play in the midfield as it is styfling Petracca's development.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Sir Why You Little 37,125]

Our players are not trained well enough, both mentally and physically 

We need better coaches. Last year we went under the radar, but this year we have been studied hard, and we were not prepared for that (God knows why!!)

so for mine it is over to Bartlett and Pert to get better people. 

[chookrat 4,268]

40 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I'm all for putting players in their natural positions and settle the team for the next 6 games and as for the W/L que, sera, sera. 

That means:

• Gus in the midfield.  As others have said we are styfling his development on the wing as we did when we played him in the fwd pocket a few years ago.  Jones and now Lewis have taken his spot. Time to put him where he is most damaging injury permitting).  Their is room for him in the midfield with Harmes, Viney and Oliver as our mids spend about 80% game time on filed, the 4 can easily rotate off the bench for the whole game.
• Fristch and Baker on the wings. 
• Backline is fairly settled so time to get the cohesion going.
• Jones has found his niche in defence
• Lewis?  Love everything he brings to our club but would rather he not play as he won't be there in 2020 and this is get ready for 2020 time.  If he must play put him fwd.
• Not much we can do about the fwd line with a number of our best out.  But we can settle the rest of the team as above.

As an aside, Mahoney in a 3AW interview lauded Petracca's strength and ability to clear the ball from stoppages.  For mine it is another reason for Lewis to not play in the midfield as it is styfling Petracca's development.

Petracca stood out v Doggies for his strength and ability to clear the ball (to our advantage) from stoppages. He's been building very nicely and with an uninterrupted pre-season could become anything next year. 

Harmes has been very good for us on the wing and linking up forward. I'd rate him as our most consistent player over the past couple of seasons whether he's playing on ball running both offencively and defensively, mopping up out of our backline, generating run through the midfield, kicking into our F50, or sneaking forward to take a big mark and kicking goals. He's also a handy tagger. Super reliable and set to become a 200+ game player who is widely respected across the competition. 

[dpositive 1,683]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I'm all for putting players in their natural positions and settle the team for the next 6 games and as for the W/L que, sera, sera. 

That means:

• Gus in the midfield.  As others have said we are styfling his development on the wing as we did when we played him in the fwd pocket a few years ago.  Jones and now Lewis have taken his spot. Time to put him where he is most damaging injury permitting).  Their is room for him in the midfield with Harmes, Viney and Oliver as our mids spend about 80% game time on filed, the 4 can easily rotate off the bench for the whole game.
• Fristch and Baker on the wings. 
• Backline is fairly settled so time to get the cohesion going.
• Jones has found his niche in defence
• Lewis?  Love everything he brings to our club but would rather he not play as he won't be there in 2020 and this is get ready for 2020 time.  If he must play put him fwd.
• Not much we can do about the fwd line with a number of our best out.  But we can settle the rest of the team as above.

As an aside, Mahoney in a 3AW interview lauded Petracca's strength and ability to clear the ball from stoppages.  For mine it is another reason for Lewis to not play in the midfield as it is styfling Petracca's development.

Agree with all you say.Would add that Lewis placement and distribution is often outstanding. Perhaps his role as coach assistant can be better utilised in passing these attributes on . Saw comment that Roughie had given advice in VFL to a Doggies player who had been more effective since then. 

Habits learned at VFL level can become instinctive and valuable. If Lewis style is what Goody wants perhaps he might be better placed there.

[praha 11,240]

History shows that midfield and contested ball dominance almost always equates to wins most of the time.

As always, however, Melbourne leads the way in breaking records no one knew existed. We set standards no one else dared set. And we add new meaning to "inefficient".

If we were salesmen, it would be like selling 100% of your stock with a return/refund rate of 80%. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

14 hours ago, dpositive said:

An initial release is made and no shepherd or attempt to stop the receiver being tackled.

We never shepherd.

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

2 hours ago, poita said:

On this point, I am convinced that certainly Oliver and probably Brayshaw are playing hurt. Last year they would draw an opponent, hand off the ball and take the hit themselves. This year they can't wait to hand off the ball, often to a player who is in a worse position. I suspect that Oliver is struggling with his shoulders.

There is no doubt that our midfielders, with the exception of Harmes, don't work hard enough defensively. With Brayshaw and Oliver both having zero impact on Sunday, there was a clear opportunity to give one of those a defensive job on Dunkley to try and reduce his influence. 

Our midfield depth is non-existent, as it has been for several years. Offloading Tyson and his salary was one thing, but not replacing him was inexcusable. 

We did use our first pick on an inside midfielder with Sparrow as well as adding Corey Wagner for some mature depth and KK was set to come in and play on the wing/mid. I'm sure the plan was for Vanders to be fit and for Corey Maynard to be a depth option as well. Plus JKH who missed the first 10 weeks. And Stretch.

The drop off between our first choice mids and our depth is too great but it's not like we don't have options. Unfortunately:

Injured: Sparrow, Stretch, Vanders, KK and even young Nietschke

Returning from injury within the last month: JKH, Maynard

And by the way, also injured: Dom Tyson (calf TBC)

[Lucifers Hero 40,359]

Midfield coach, Plapp has gone under the radar. 

I would say the deplorable midfield performance this year needs to be laid at his door.  Be it his lack of experience, creativity, adaptability or whatever, it is his job to get them performing.

Just for now, forget midfield connection with the forwards and two-way running.  Let's just consider their stoppage and clearance work, which supposedly is their strength.

There was one game where Max had more clearances at stoppages than the whole midfield combined!!!!  What are those midfielders doing between the 50m arcs which is where they should excel and dominate?.  Can understand that 666 upset last year's dynamics but here we are round 17 and there has been little improvement in the middle.  Max has not dropped off this year, the people around him have.  That they can't take advantage of Max's dominance game after game is the biggest mystery of our season.  (BTW Max made TOTW again this week).  So what has Plapp being doing/not doing for the clearance and stoppage work to have gone backwards.

In my mind if he is still midfield coach next year our rise up the ladder will be limited.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero
Thanks to @DeeSpencer for correct spelling of Plapp's name

[Ouch! 2,266]

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-07-16/stats-files-where-has-it-all-gone-wrong-for-the-demons

This article is interesting... depends how much you put an emphasis on stats though.

"As an interesting aside, Melbourne's expected hit rate with its field kicks (excluding kick-ins and shots at goal) of 51.5 per cent is the fourth-hardest in the AFL, so it's attempting to play a bold style."

Shows also that our midfield group only Harmes and Brayshaw are slightly better than 'expected' given the kick and the expected chance of success of a kick hitting a target. Oliver not great, but Viney has been horrid (-11%). 

Our best performers in the team (for those with a minimum of 100 kicks) are Jones, Salem and Fritsch in that order

Without knowing our stats in this area from last year.... are our players being asked to execute a level of difficulty in the game plan that they are not capable of? Our contested ball and clearance stats haven't really changed since last year, just our ability to execute kicking, especially when connecting i50. Also our players also seem to have taken the 'we'll all eventually get our lick of the icecream' concept too far in my opinion when inside 50, and instead of taking responsibility for the shot at goal, they are trying to give the ball to another player, and without the skill to execute it results in a horrid fail.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Ouch!

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Midfield coach, Platt has gone under the radar. 

I would say the deplorable midfield performance this year needs to be laid at his door.  Be it his lack of experience, creativity, adaptability or whatever, it is his job to get them performing.

Just for now, forget midfield connection with the forwards and two-way running.  Let's just consider their stoppage and clearance work, which supposedly is their strength.

There was one game where Max had more clearances at stoppages than the whole midfield combined!!!!  What are those midfielders doing between the 50m arcs which is where they should excel and dominate?.  Can understand that 666 upset last year's dynamics but here we are round 17 and there has been little improvement in the middle.  Max has not dropped off this year, the people around him have.  That they can't take advantage of Max's dominance game after game is the biggest mystery of our season.  (BTW Max made TOTW again this week).  So what has Platt being doing/not doing for the clearance and stoppage work to have gone backwards.

In my mind if he is still midfield coach next year our rise up the ladder will be limited. 

Firstly, if you've got a theory without a lot of evidence you should at least get the guys name right. It's Justin Plapp.

Secondly, he's the midfield coach but Ben Matthews is the stoppage coach. He'd have far more say in what occurs at the stoppages where as Plapp's role would be based on how the midfielders move and use the ball in transition.

Gawn has been excellent and the midfield has taken advantage in a number of games particularly in wins - v Syd, v Haw, v Freo. Max doesn't have Nic Nat's ability to leap over and hit it 360's though, so he's not a cheat code in the ruck. There's hitouts to advantage and there's hitouts that go clearly in to space and result in a beautiful clearance and Max can only get so many of them in a game. As for Gawn's clearance numbers they come about because after the hit out he's got some space to work, where as the other 3 mids have opponents on them. That we can't find little link up handballs to create clearer clearances is a bad mark on our coaches but in several games we have created a decent quality of clearance. Oliver turns the chance at a decent kick forward 50m in to a handball to Gawn who then hacks it 30m. For most of the Dogs game we did very well around the ground at stoppages and throw ins. But we also lack burst speed and dual sided ball use, we need a quicker/smarter ball user in the mix and we need a summer of the mids training together. They spent the first 2 months of the season trying to get fit and cover defensively.

 

 

 

[binman 43,757]

1 hour ago, Ouch! said:

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-07-16/stats-files-where-has-it-all-gone-wrong-for-the-demons

This article is interesting... depends how much you put an emphasis on stats though.

"As an interesting aside, Melbourne's expected hit rate with its field kicks (excluding kick-ins and shots at goal) of 51.5 per cent is the fourth-hardest in the AFL, so it's attempting to play a bold style."

Shows also that our midfield group only Harmes and Brayshaw are slightly better than 'expected' given the kick and the expected chance of success of a kick hitting a target. Oliver not great, but Viney has been horrid (-11%). 

Our best performers in the team (for those with a minimum of 100 kicks) are Jones, Salem and Fritsch in that order

Without knowing our stats in this area from last year.... are our players being asked to execute a level of difficulty in the game plan that they are not capable of? Our contested ball and clearance stats haven't really changed since last year, just our ability to execute kicking, especially when connecting i50. Also our players also seem to have taken the 'we'll all eventually get our lick of the icecream' concept too far in my opinion when inside 50, and instead of taking responsibility for the shot at goal, they are trying to give the ball to another player, and without the skill to execute it results in a horrid fail.

Interesting stats.

On your question (bolded) i don't think we are being more aggressive as such but we simply have too many of our better players  either not playing or out of form (possibly a a result of injury and interrupted preparation). Plus we have had nowhere near the same dominance from the center meaning less clean inside 50 entries (and around the ground from stoppages) and more scrappy quick kicks.

The other factor is that this this year footy has been more defensive than ever before as evidenced by the incredibly low average scores (well done AFL your intervention worked a treat), this is partly a function of slow ball movement, which is all the rage, which allows teams to get back behind the ball and set up zones and really congested defensive 50s and a general  increased focus on defence and defensive systems. This all makes hitting targets inside 50 that much harder, putting a premium on elite kicks.

On that last point there has been some discussion on DL about the notion that during the season teams are playing defensively for three quarter before launching in the last q (and for all the finals) as a a way of getting through the physical rind of the season. Apparently this model is very common in the NFL

 

[Lucifers Hero 40,359]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Firstly, if you've got a theory without a lot of evidence you should at least get the guys name right. It's Justin Plapp.

Secondly, he's the midfield coach but Ben Matthews is the stoppage coach. He'd have far more say in what occurs at the stoppages where as Plapp's role would be based on how the midfielders move and use the ball in transition.

Gawn has been excellent and the midfield has taken advantage in a number of games particularly in wins - v Syd, v Haw, v Freo. Max doesn't have Nic Nat's ability to leap over and hit it 360's though, so he's not a cheat code in the ruck. There's hitouts to advantage and there's hitouts that go clearly in to space and result in a beautiful clearance and Max can only get so many of them in a game. As for Gawn's clearance numbers they come about because after the hit out he's got some space to work, where as the other 3 mids have opponents on them. That we can't find little link up handballs to create clearer clearances is a bad mark on our coaches but in several games we have created a decent quality of clearance. Oliver turns the chance at a decent kick forward 50m in to a handball to Gawn who then hacks it 30m. For most of the Dogs game we did very well around the ground at stoppages and throw ins. But we also lack burst speed and dual sided ball use, we need a quicker/smarter ball user in the mix and we need a summer of the mids training together. They spent the first 2 months of the season trying to get fit and cover defensively.

Thank you for the correction.

Well Matthews shares the responsibility with Plapp re our terrible midfield stoppages and clearances this year vs 2018.  There has been no change to personnel in that part of the ground so something isn't working.  If our mids have opp on them that hold them up them maybe they need to lean how to shake a tag.  Coaches need to be held accountable for those things  The mids have had 3/4 years of training together.  At round 17, I no longer buy all the stuff about preseason/injuries/fitness to explain all our poor performances, some part yes but not all.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

31 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Thank you for the correction.

Well Matthews shares the responsibility with Plapp re our terrible midfield stoppages and clearances this year vs 2018.  There has been no change to personnel in that part of the ground so something isn't working.  If our mids have opp on them that hold them up them maybe they need to lean how to shake a tag.  Coaches need to be held accountable for those things  The mids have had 3/4 years of training together.  At round 17, I no longer buy all the stuff about preseason/injuries/fitness to explain all our poor performances, some part yes but not all.

I can't find clearance differentials online but last year we were 3rd in the league with 39 clearances a game, this year we are 6th with 40 clearances a game average and 0.8 behind the 3rd place team. I'm not sure we've fallen all that badly in clearances.

Last year we used 1 or 2 off the back of the square to help our lack of speed in centre clearances, we can't do that this year which I think is a big reason Brayshaw has fallen out of the centre square group.

I still have confidence that Gawn, Oliver, Viney (who's looked better post bye), and Harmes (who has been shifted to the wing, I think to protect his body) make a very good clearance unit, but we're doing all sorts of different things to find the right midfield balance. Lewis as a tagger is the latest. Jones and Melksham as mids was tried. 

So many things have gone wrong this year that isolating individual problems gets away from the bigger picture which is that we are robbing peter to pay paul with so many decisions. It's summed up by our best wingman in Fritsch having to move positions during games as an intercept marking defender one week after Hore's injury and then as a full forward the next after Tommy Mc's absence.

[jnrmac 20,185]

On 7/15/2019 at 9:22 PM, DeeSpencer said:

We were killed for pace by Essendon early in the season and by Neale and Zorko against Brisbane. 

Oliver, Harmes and Viney aren't slow but they need to get even sharper in two way efforts from stoppages as well as across the ground.

As good as Gawn is he's also a bit of a liability at centre bounces compared with some rucks who can chase down opposition mids and can also be used as effective clearance players. So often a Clarry handball goes to a stationary Gawn who then struggles to get a kick away. 

Then there's Brayshaw who's too slow entirely to be in the centre clearances if he can't pick up his defensive transition and Petracca who's lazy in swapping to defensive work and lazy around the ground.

At stoppages teams hold Oliver and rove to Gawn. Our best clearances have all come with Viney who actually has the pace and smarts to read a tap and get moving forward with the ball. Unfortunately it then means he has to kick it.

Outside mid has been spoken about in depth. I still have a decent amount of faith in Fritsch and I like Baker as a developmental player who needs a huge summer. Otherwise the cupboard is bare.

Our mids when the get it are rarely running fwd. They are running backwards and trying to kick around their body more often than not. The midfield set ups are bewildering.

[picket fence 17,498]

On 7/16/2019 at 10:29 AM, Sir Why You Little said:

Our players are not trained well enough, both mentally and physically 

We need better coaches. Last year we went under the radar, but this year we have been studied hard, and we were not prepared for that (God knows why!!)

so for mine it is over to Bartlett and Pert to get better people. 

Yep and you cant blame Injuries and use that as a poor excuse either!

We have been outcoached, outplayed, and quite a few selections and or non selections have been mystifying!

We must have a huge cleanout of all deadwood including players who for any number of reasons just will  not make it coaching and football dept personel who just havent got the answers!

Edited July 17, 2019 by picket fence