16 hours ago, Laughing Goat said:

The mids are not a liability if their not winning the ball......they are a liability if they keep having 30 turnovers between them (like last night)

No poise with ball in hand & team first decisions gone.....& as far as being accountable & chasing, that's just discipline.

 

Even Clarrie, for all of his great assets, has become a 'bomber' of the football with added 'over the shoulder, no target...' intent. 

13 hours ago, Beetle said:

Speaking in metaphorical terms using supermarkets as an example, Essendon v Collingwood on Anzac Day is generally like Woolworths playing Coles.

We are like NQR where you occasionally and surprisingly stumble across a  quality product, but it’s always ridiculously close to a use by date and is only stocked for a limited time.

Great analogy ... loved the bit about C + W, and then NQR stocked for a limited time. 

8 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Even Clarrie, for all of his great assets, has become a 'bomber' of the football with added 'over the shoulder, no target...' intent. 

Had surgery on both shoulders, and much like Tommy Mac after his surgery on both ankles, looks like he needed to extend his preseason into regular season to rebuild his fitness base. Clarrie has no power  or explosion. Tommy Mac is an endurance beast but looked like he was running on quicksand in JLT1 and as of Round 5 still looks limited.

16 hours ago, dimmy said:

1 >   I feel the biggest issue last night was the fumbling which killed any momentum.

2 >  Too much Get ball- get rid of ball

3>   BOMBING !!!!! into Fwd line in AFL guarantees bounceback goals especially when everybody charges after the bombed ball => returns over and away they go

4> No just fix up Weids, Fritsch,( Both relatively inexperienced players.)  Tracc  leading patterns and get the midfielders to lower their eyes and identify them, rather than BOMBING. Lockett could not kick goals ( well maybe not as many) with how the ball is coming in. Surely professional coaches can teach young people how to lead. There are plenty of Video reviews of good player positioning themselves Make Dermy Head Coach, he is the onlt bloke in the world who thinks he could fix it in a week

5> Head bombers last night : Viney, Oliver and Jones. Brayshaw had a few  cut off, but they were genuine passes rather than  bombs.

6> Hore is Good Has heart !!! Lockart is still learning because he has heart . Still learning where to be !!

Our Defence was pretty good last night considering the pressure they were under. Although I do worry when Frosty thinks !!!!

Re fumbling - 100% SPOT ON!!! 

Was the absolute reason we couldn’t get any momentum. I think the cos he’s feel same way - I’ve NEVER seen a side fumble this much over the ball, it’s insanely contagious and reminiscent of WC prelim. 

No idea how it gets fixed but confidence will address a fair chunk of it.. we’ll win 4-6 in last 8 weeks of year once cattle arrive but it’ll be way too late - good news is we’ll have currency to bring in what we need, but not all of it - either a tall fwd, outside mid with poise going inside 50 & players who are clean!

3 minutes ago, demoniac said:

Had surgery on both shoulders, and much like Tommy Mac after his surgery on both ankles, looks like he needed to extend his preseason into regular season to rebuild his fitness base. Clarrie has no power  or explosion. Tommy Mac is an endurance beast but looked like he was running on quicksand in JLT1 and as of Round 5 still looks limited.

nice acknowledgment of some truth's about surgery and the impact and flow on's that it has... 

I for one don't believe we have overrated our list with the best 22... there is always refinement for their skills, and there is always deadwood amongst the depth players which need to be turned over... but the surgeries etc has been significant in how we play.

3 hours ago, Docs Demons said:

Crowded with oppo players!!! Most disposals being 2 Tigers defenders mainly winning ball by themselves.

Agree. So where are our spare players?

18 hours ago, dimmy said:

1 >   I feel the biggest issue last night was the fumbling which killed any momentum.

2 >  Too much Get ball- get rid of ball

3>   BOMBING !!!!! into Fwd line in AFL guarantees bounceback goals especially when everybody charges after the bombed ball => returns over and away they go

4> No just fix up Weids, Fritsch,( Both relatively inexperienced players.)  Tracc  leading patterns and get the midfielders to lower their eyes and identify them, rather than BOMBING. Lockett could not kick goals ( well maybe not as many) with how the ball is coming in. Surely professional coaches can teach young people how to lead. There are plenty of Video reviews of good player positioning themselves Make Dermy Head Coach, he is the onlt bloke in the world who thinks he could fix it in a week

5> Head bombers last night : Viney, Oliver and Jones. Brayshaw had a few  cut off, but they were genuine passes rather than  bombs.

6> Hore is Good Has heart !!! Lockart is still learning because he has heart . Still learning where to be !!

Our Defence was pretty good last night considering the pressure they were under. Although I do worry when Frosty thinks !!!!

Agree on most Dimmy except 2 points, in my opinion......

1/ Fumbles: The reason our mids fumbled Wed night & more than any other game this year (& lets face it, it starts with the mids & on ballers) is because Melky, Hibbo, Trac etc don't normally play in the midfield. So consequently they are unfamiliar with the pressure & the ability to release quickly, hence they panic. This is not a quick fix, but more of a message to the 'usual' mids like Brayshaw, Harmes & Clarry etc to be accountable.

5/ Head bombers: genuine passes......I don't think so! Panic again & no poise......the 4 guys you have mentioned, plus Gawn had a total of 30, yes that's 30.....turnovers. This comes back to skill & the ability to make decisions whilst under pressure.

I wouldn't say head bombers, more like head wobblers.....We have a few players that want to do everything themselves & ignore the team first rules.

Good post though!

 

 

Just for the record, Tom Mc double ankle surgery was the in September 2017 not this preseason.  https://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-01/ankle-surgery-keeps-young-demon-off-track

I haven't found any reference to him having surgery or other injury issues in this preseason.

43 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Just for the record, Tom Mc double ankle surgery was the in September 2017 not this preseason.  https://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-01/ankle-surgery-keeps-young-demon-off-track

I haven't found any reference to him having surgery or other injury issues in this preseason.

Wasn’t he pulled out of the AFLX series this year for a knee clean-out?

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/melbourne-star-tom-mcdonald-ruled-out-of-aflx-tournament/news-story/27f0fc38237c52de4da69ea3ae3083f2

Edited April 26, 20196 yr by Robot Devil

It looks like we are getting our hands on the ball, but fumbling it, not using it to our advantage and turning it over.

If there was one thing we have to fix it is this, as it has a snowball effect which gives our connection with the forward line no hope whatsoever.

3 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Someone's got to do it.

We should start a thread collating posts with deliberate or careless false claims that can be factually proven to be so. A Demonland shame file. Some of the same names will start cropping up pretty quickly I imagine - and maybe that will help to clean up the issue a fraction. 

49 minutes ago, Robot Devil said:

Wasn’t he pulled out of the AFLX series for a knee cleanout?

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/melbourne-star-tom-mcdonald-ruled-out-of-aflx-tournament/news-story/27f0fc38237c52de4da69ea3ae3083f2

Thanks for highlighting that RD.

I was just trying to correct one of the myths about the interrupted preseason and in particular the 'double ankle' surgery for Tom.  

It seems Tom missed the AFLX 'game' but was in the JLT squads so he effectively had a normal preseason - everyone has niggles and spends some time in 'rehab'.  Going on the training reports players on light duties are often in the 'rehab' group.

Edited April 26, 20196 yr by Lucifer's Hero

3 hours ago, demoniac said:

Had surgery on both shoulders, and much like Tommy Mac after his surgery on both ankles, looks like he needed to extend his preseason into regular season to rebuild his fitness base. Clarrie has no power  or explosion. Tommy Mac is an endurance beast but looked like he was running on quicksand in JLT1 and as of Round 5 still looks limited.

Could well be the case, for both players and if so, fairy Nuff. Hope full recoveries are on the way, as soon as possible. 

4 hours ago, bringbackthebiff said:

Agree. So where are our spare players?

Well that is our main problem. We must have spares somewhere and this is where we are falling down with the so called CONNECTION. No one is looking when going into forward line. Just packing themselves and  bombing it and you and I could take marks by ourselves if we were defenders and that is saying something as I am as old as the hills !! 

23 hours ago, Laughing Goat said:

The mids are not a liability if their not winning the ball......they are a liability if they keep having 30 turnovers between them (like last night)

No poise with ball in hand & team first decisions gone.....& as far as being accountable & chasing, that's just discipline.

 

How are they an asset if they are not winning the ball or getting it back?

The easy the ball rebounds out of our F50 is due to a lack of forward pressure, and the mids inability to chase/harass and create pressure for various reasons (lack of pace, endurance, effort, just being shiz).

They win the ball then they can't kick and they can't chase, watch how easily teams rebound against us. It's not all of the defenders fault we are getting scored against easily.

Look at Brayshaws effort v Reiwoldt. Brayshaw would easily be in our top 2 for tackles in the past. And that was a shiz effort..... so the question is why unfit slow or doesn't care?

You can call it lack of discipline all  you like for me our slow one paced midfield is a liability.

The saddest part about Wednesday night for me was our best mid wasn't even a mid. Goody should have stuck with Melksham in the middle

Edited April 26, 20196 yr by Unleash Hell

4 hours ago, DeeZee said:

It looks like we are getting our hands on the ball, but fumbling it, not using it to our advantage and turning it over.

If there was one thing we have to fix it is this, as it has a snowball effect which gives our connection with the forward line no hope whatsoever.

The amount of times we had first hands on the ball and couldn't control it was amazing.

Hey at least we’re not North Melb.

9 hours ago, Dame Gaga said:

Thanks, but I was incorrect with the games always being close. It just seemed that way every time I listened to annoying Collingwood supporters that I know. They are a bad influence. See my other posts nearby.

Haha, no probs. I do stand somewhat by my statement. Poor contests are the exception rather than the rule between these clubs on Anzac day. Sure the drug cheats were reeling for a while - unfortunately not long enough - and this probably impacted the quality of the game since then. From my perspective, the Anzac day has that finals feel to it and even games with a final margin of 4-5 goals have been brilliant, high standard, intense games.?

Edited April 26, 20196 yr by Boots and all

8 hours ago, Nudge said:

Re fumbling - 100% SPOT ON!!! 

Was the absolute reason we couldn’t get any momentum. I think the cos he’s feel same way - I’ve NEVER seen a side fumble this much over the ball, it’s insanely contagious and reminiscent of WC prelim. 

No idea how it gets fixed but confidence will address a fair chunk of it.. we’ll win 4-6 in last 8 weeks of year once cattle arrive but it’ll be way too late - good news is we’ll have currency to bring in what we need, but not all of it - either a tall fwd, outside mid with poise going inside 50 & players who are clean!

You sure about that? Last 8 weeks of the year include games against the Tigers, Pies, Eagles, Saints, Swans again and North in Tassie.

2 hours ago, Docs Demons said:

Well that is our main problem. We must have spares somewhere and this is where we are falling down with the so called CONNECTION. No one is looking when going into forward line. Just packing themselves and  bombing it and you and I could take marks by ourselves if we were defenders and that is saying something as I am as old as the hills !! 

We actually tried to lower our eyes on Wednesday but so many times our passes were cut off by Tigers players. Not sure if they just read the play well or we were choosing the wrong options. Then there were the multiple kicks straight to a Tiger player all on their own in our F50.

1 hour ago, Unleash Hell said:

How are they an asset if they are not winning the ball or getting it back?

The easy the ball rebounds out of our F50 is due to a lack of forward pressure, and the mids inability to chase/harass and create pressure for various reasons (lack of pace, endurance, effort, just being shiz).

They win the ball then they can't kick and they can't chase, watch how easily teams rebound against us. It's not all of the defenders fault we are getting scored against easily.

Look at Brayshaws effort v Reiwoldt. Brayshaw would easily be in our top 2 for tackles in the past. And that was a shiz effort..... so the question is why unfit slow or doesn't care?

You can call it lack of discipline all  you like for me our slow one paced midfield is a liability.

The saddest part about Wednesday night for me was our best mid wasn't even a mid. Goody should have stuck with Melksham in the middle

My point was that our highly rated mids in Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney & Harmes, were regarded by many in 2018 as the best in the comp & gaining possession or first use of the footy hasn't been the issue......The issue this year has been what they do with the footy when they dispose of it. I am guessing also that Goodwin has finally had enough of our mids lack of accountability, hence the reason for  Brayshaw, & Harmes  not playing any game time in the middle Wed night. I agree Melksham was good too but still 10 or his 25 touches went to the opposition.

I also never said that it was the defenders fault & I feel for them just like every dees fan & it must be a nightmare when the ball is lost in transition.

Our most efficient users of the footy Wed night were two 22 year old's in Fritsch (75% Efficiency/5 turnovers & Stretch 75% Efficiency & 1 turnover) THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM IS...... 

Pace not a liability IMO......Tom Mitchell, Sam Mitchell, Scott Pendlebury, Patrick Cripps, Lochie Neale, no Stawell Gift winners & yet prolific ball magnets who just have poise & use the ball well. (Pendlebury 38 touches yesterday, 75% Efficiency & 5 turnovers)

Give me those numbers any day.

BTW.....Oliver was our best tackler last season with an average of nearly 7 per game & Viney next with 6.

 

I liked Melksham as well, however, he had 10 turnovers.....if he's the best mid weve got then we are in a lot of [censored].

17 hours ago, Skuit said:

Love it. TU on some manic warpath of truth in an era of fake news. Good luck mate. Wish I had your stamina.

I have already acknowledged I made a mistake in saying the Collingwood/Essendon ANZAC Day games were always close. It wasn't deliberate, only a misconception on my part due to the hype which surrounds the occasion of these matches. And the fact I know too many rabid Collingwood supporters who talk it up every year.

53 minutes ago, Laughing Goat said:

My point was that our highly rated mids in Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney & Harmes, were regarded by many in 2018 as the best in the comp & gaining possession or first use of the footy hasn't been the issue......The issue this year has been what they do with the footy when they dispose of it. I am guessing also that Goodwin has finally had enough of our mids lack of accountability, hence the reason for  Brayshaw, & Harmes  not playing any game time in the middle Wed night. I agree Melksham was good too but still 10 or his 25 touches went to the opposition.

I also never said that it was the defenders fault & I feel for them just like every dees fan & it must be a nightmare when the ball is lost in transition.

Our most efficient users of the footy Wed night were two 22 year old's in Fritsch (75% Efficiency/5 turnovers & Stretch 75% Efficiency & 1 turnover) THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM IS...... 

Pace not a liability IMO......Tom Mitchell, Sam Mitchell, Scott Pendlebury, Patrick Cripps, Lochie Neale, no Stawell Gift winners & yet prolific ball magnets who just have poise & use the ball well. (Pendlebury 38 touches yesterday, 75% Efficiency & 5 turnovers)

Give me those numbers any day.

BTW.....Oliver was our best tackler last season with an average of nearly 7 per game & Viney next with 6.

 

I liked Melksham as well, however, he had 10 turnovers.....if he's the best mid weve got then we are in a lot of [censored].

I don't think we are actually arguing as we agree with each other but in different ways.

Although 10 out of 25 isn't a great ratio Melksham IMO still looked the most damaging. And yes I am saying he looked our most damaging and yes I am saying its a reason why we are [censored]

I also think pace and the ability to cover the ground and put on pressure is important, that is why I believe we have a very poor record on bigger grounds. That is why the tigers are so successful, they don't have highly skilled players but they have pace to put on pressure. Our lines are all slow. The mids need to make up for it but they are all inside plodders.

But in saying all of that I agree 100% with what you are saying. If we can correct our disposal eff/turnovers we will get scored against a lot less and pace won't be an issue.

I am not off the bandwagon but I understand there is a long way to go for this team and 2019 won't be our year

 

 

Edited April 26, 20196 yr by Unleash Hell

1 hour ago, Dame Gaga said:

I have already acknowledged I made a mistake in saying the Collingwood/Essendon ANZAC Day games were always close. It wasn't deliberate, only a misconception on my part due to the hype which surrounds the occasion of these matches. And the fact I know too many rabid Collingwood supporters who talk it up every year.

I wasn't actually referring to you specifically (and didn't see your later exchange). And I respect that you have acknowledged it was a mistake rather than deflecting it. But presumably you were on the internet when you posted it? Not a nasty criticism directed at you, but perhaps if there was a specific thread collating deliberate or careless inaccuracies as suggested then posters might be discouraged from making false statements or spreading mistruths. 

We were cooked at quarter time