PREGAME: Rd 05 vs St. Kilda

[titan_uranus 24,974]

We're better in the back half with Lewis and Jetta in it and with OMac out of it.

I feel for Stretch, only getting one crack at it, but he unfortunately didn't take much of his chance last week.

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

20 minutes ago, sisso said:

Am I the only one totally unexcited to see old man Lewis back in the team? Too slow!

Experience is sometimes under rated. The youngsters may be fast, but their decision making can be poor, making them look like they are panicking under pressure. Now runners are not allowed on the ground, a player like Lewis can be invaluable to guide and settle the troops. From what Goodwin said, this is the role he is expected to do. I am not unhappy with his inclusion.

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,083]

Lewis is quicker than Omac too

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

The last time we played the Aints we had an extra slow mid field rotation running with Tyson in.  While not super fast this time around either we have a mid field that is more settled now without those constant Tyson ins/outs every once in a while which made us extra slow in the middle IMO and drew more attention / tackles / pressure from the opp mids making it even harder for all concerned to clear the congestion to our advantage as often as we usually would (with Tyson out).

In addition Petty came in for his one and only game and was severely exposed and out of sorts down back.  It was his first game but it was a horror and unfortunately for him and us it effectively left us a man short down back.  Saints saw this and confidence went through the roof.  They new if they could get it down there quickly enough they would have a great chance of converting.  They also new Oscar and Louis weren't quick enough to cover off for Petty if the ball came in quickly.  Hore seems like a much more likely prospect so far and less likely to be severely exposed.

We also have a different look with the twin towers in plus Frosty able to run lines off HB, close down on his opponent quickly and Hunt providing some zip leading into space up forward along with some chase down pressure.

My biggest concern is Spargo over Jeffy.  With Pruess in we need someone to play a specialist crumbing role off the big man (as well as Big M if resting there) as well as pressuring and running down opponents to lock the ball in.  This is a perfect Jeffy cameo role in the offing.  He knows where the goals are and loves to kick em.  He has big men to feed off....the incentive is there and the rewards very enticing if he works hard enough.

Hopefully we don't look back and regret this decision and we are running away with it well nearing the final siren.  If it comes down to a few points, like the last time we played them, this might end up being a significant error by Goody & the FD.  Spargo will need to play a very special game to justify being picked in front of Jeffy.  Finger's and toes crossed he brings it.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[58er 6,389]

11 hours ago, Kumamoto_Ken said:

Flying down with the family for the week which will get us to this game (fresh off the plane) and the Tiggers match.

MFCSS has me expecting the worst...

Same here from Bris Vegas  after seeing the 10 goal mauling of the Lions by the off the leash Pies.They would have only had 5/10 mins in the first quarter of any doubt and they were in total control of the situation throughout really.

Nearly every line had skill and pace and the belief looks so real it is going to carry them to mountain top or very very near again.

i will be at the G on Sat (taking the road of nearly 30 years ago and done over the preceding 28 mostly cold and unsuccessful winters of the well worn Punt Rd and parking in  Yarra Park) due to the South and Eastern train hiatus.

And of course the highlight of the brilliant  combination of sport and national history on Anzac Eve for the third successive time looms large as season shaping as we strive to claw back our tardy 2019 start.

i suspect we have not given the Club, coaches and players (minus the dozen potential injured stars and soldiers albeit) the faith or benefit of doubt many manically resorting to the Same Old Melbourne tag.

How dare we do this hopefully at our eternal peril as Peter Jackson has said many times our journey will have road blocks and we will have to learn to negotiate these.

i believe we are still a work in progress young with too many VFL soldiers doing their Level best and we will be much better near seasons end than now as about  a dozen stars and valuable B graders get us back to the potential shown in 2018.

GO Dees (61 years on!)

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,801]

With Oscar dropped, Josh Wagner has been promoted to No.1 whipping boy.  With his confidence and form as bad as it had been, just about anyone would have been better than Oscar the past month.  One thing I'm quite comfortable that Wagner will give is 100% effort, commitment to the football and create a contest.

Conversly, I'm struggling with all the instantaneous love for Jeffy after soo  many here completely [censored] canned him most of last season.  Quite happy for a desperate Jeffy to absolutely bang the door down at Casey, get rested in the last quarter and come in fresh against Richmond.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,677]

Lots of people worried about Spargo over Jeffy, but little mention of Hunt. 

Hunt is about as ‘zippy’ as they get; I reckon he’ll find his calling in the forward 50 once he gets a consistent run at the role. 

[rjay 24,885]

8 hours ago, sisso said:

Am I the only one totally unexcited to see old man Lewis back in the team? Too slow!

 

8 hours ago, Dame Gaga said:

Experience is sometimes under rated. The youngsters may be fast, but their decision making can be poor, making them look like they are panicking under pressure. Now runners are not allowed on the ground, a player like Lewis can be invaluable to guide and settle the troops. From what Goodwin said, this is the role he is expected to do. I am not unhappy with his inclusion.

Experience is also overrated when it's inclusion is built on memories past...

If anyone watched Hodge last night & didn't buy into the Bruce...Hodgy BS, you would have seen a great player past his use by date.

The Pies ran rings around him & all the experience & guidance in the world doesn't cover that up. He wasn't on his own last night of course but his experience added nothing & had them one man down from the start. Injury then added to that.

If we are to be a serious finals contender then someone else needs to take the leadership role down back. We can't afford to carry a tour guide. Lewis like Hodge has gone one or two seasons too many...

[D4Life 2,445]

18 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

Experience is also overrated when it's inclusion is built on memories past...

If anyone watched Hodge last night & didn't buy into the Bruce...Hodgy BS, you would have seen a great player past his use by date.

The Pies ran rings around him & all the experience & guidance in the world doesn't cover that up. He wasn't on his own last night of course but his experience added nothing & had them one man down from the start. Injury then added to that.

If we are to be a serious finals contender then someone else needs to take the leadership role down back. We can't afford to carry a tour guide. Lewis like Hodge has gone one or two seasons too many...

Once we have a reasonable injury list, Lewis won’t make it into the team. 

[Fanatique Demon 2,642]

9 hours ago, sisso said:

Am I the only one totally unexcited to see old man Lewis back in the team? Too slow!

He might be a bit slow Sisso, but check out his numbers for last year:

Disposals 540 (4th for our team)

Kicks 285 (3rd)

Marks 115 (4th)

Handballs 255 (4th)

Uncontested possessions 349 (3rd)

Intercept possessions 155 (1st)

Not bad for an old man.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,801]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

 

Experience is also overrated when it's inclusion is built on memories past...

If anyone watched Hodge last night & didn't buy into the Bruce...Hodgy BS, you would have seen a great player past his use by date.

The Pies ran rings around him & all the experience & guidance in the world doesn't cover that up. He wasn't on his own last night of course but his experience added nothing & had them one man down from the start. Injury then added to that.

If we are to be a serious finals contender then someone else needs to take the leadership role down back. We can't afford to carry a tour guide. Lewis like Hodge has gone one or two seasons too many...

Without being disrespectful to Lewis, I think you have it the nail on the head with the above.  That said, if we can squeeze a few more good games out of Lewis whilst we dig ourselves out of a bit of a patch of poor form and down a fee key troops, I'd be happy with that too.

On the leadership thing, Lewis wasn't a backman most of his career, so it's not like he should have anything too special to add to that part of the ground.  Realistically, guys like May, Hibberd, Jetta and even Lever/Salem should have enough experience and  leadership potential between them to steer the ship post Lewis.  Likewise enough leaders and experience in other parts of the ground - we need them to stand up to really take the team forward.  There was a time that Lewis was in the same shoes as our emerging leaders.

It will be interesting to see if Lewis takes relligation to the two's as well as Bernie did and if he can play a good developmental role with our young guys comming through.  One thing I've been a little suprised and perhaps disappointed with is the lack of presence on match day that Lewis has had while injured, but perhaps there are several reasons for that and it would be interesting to know what his contribution from a leadership/mentoring perspective has been behind the scenes at training etc.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[JV7 2,350]

1. People bagging Spargo over Stretch. Do you realise they are not the same type on player ? Spargo the small forward & Stretch a midfielder. They are not comparable, Spargo may not have had a lot of footy last week but we have had issues of retaining the ball inside 50 which was better last week, forward line functioned better. May not be all to do with Spargo but why change a successful forward mix from last week.

2. "Saints beat us with leg speed last year cry cry cry". No, they beat us on merit, we had an off day & they were better on the day. 

3. People saying Lewis isn't best 22 or why is he been picked... He is still be 22, his direction & ball use across half back is hugely under rated, please tell me who takes his place ? May & Lever will take Frost/Wagner/Hore. Plus he hasn't even played a game in 2019 yet so how about people give him a month to see what he's producing

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by JV7

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,801]

Something I think people may be under valuing at the moment is what the speed of Sam Frost brings to our backline.  I can't remember if it was Buddy himself who said it or a comentator, but Buddy knew he couldn't try to burst away from Frost and that helped to significantly contain Buddy.

In our last game against St Kilda (less Frost), they burst away from us out the back on a number occasions into huge open space, where if Frost had have played, he probably would have caught them.  Whist we need a good team defensive effort as well, I think having Frost down back does give us some good defensive cover that few other bring.  He has been in pretty decent form most of the year and I think he can be a part of a good win for us on Saturday and remain an important part of our backline as the season progresses.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Lewis has been overall very good for us. EG the West Coast game where Tommy made us GF favourites for a day. Lewis' experience was instrumental in keeping us in that game.

He always seems to know where to be and where to deliver the ball, esp to advantage.

But the thing to watch out for is, when the close in going gets a bit too close, he goes to ground. Often deliberately to force a stoppage rather than dispose rattily or give up a free kick. But opp stoppages in their forward 50 means they're setting up in their favourite way near their goals. Danger! How often will he be tactically forced to ground?

[What 18,810]

2 hours ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Lots of people worried about Spargo over Jeffy, but little mention of Hunt. 

Hunt is about as ‘zippy’ as they get; I reckon he’ll find his calling in the forward 50 once he gets a consistent run at the role. 

Hunt is looking very good as a forward.   I admit I thought he would be a total bust there, but hes doing great.   If he can continue to improve the team will be so much more dangerous. 

[Deemania since 56 6,608]

11 hours ago, DeezNuts said:

If you went to the game, you’d reconsider on Hore - he was an absolute Jet!

Hore has good experience and was crowned at the Filth for what are possibly valid reasons. I thought that he displayed these for us and should only improve given the responsibility. It would appear that the Filth have even more player pressure for a game at AFL level than we do and if so, this might explain why Hore was repeatedly so good in their seconds team, just busting for a game in the big league. Now that he is more assured of this with the MFC, such performance standards are ripe for our picking - at least he is a real 'go-er' and I feel that he will team up with Frosty very well, support Hibberd and the Jet very well, and provide drive into and beyond the midfield as he settles into another environment, personnel mix and game style. Wish him well.

[jnrmac 20,055]

15 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Hope TMac can hold himself together now that OMac is outta the team - particularly, as he realises that we are stronger without his little brother yet still incredibly reliant on the contribution of Big Tom. I am sure he is professional in this situation,

Yes, I hope Mrs McDonald is OK too. FFS are you really worried about TMac because his little brother was dropped? His little brother has been poor for quite a while. Needs to learn his craft at Casey, not the seniors. 

[Deemania since 56 6,608]

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Yes, I hope Mrs McDonald is OK too. FFS are you really worried about TMac because his little brother was dropped? His little brother has been poor for quite a while. Needs to learn his craft at Casey, not the seniors. 

I am concerned, more than worried. He has openly stated that the two of them are an onfield team - in the past. 

[jnrmac 20,055]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

 

Experience is also overrated when it's inclusion is built on memories past...

If anyone watched Hodge last night & didn't buy into the Bruce...Hodgy BS, you would have seen a great player past his use by date.

The Pies ran rings around him & all the experience & guidance in the world doesn't cover that up. He wasn't on his own last night of course but his experience added nothing & had them one man down from the start. Injury then added to that.

If we are to be a serious finals contender then someone else needs to take the leadership role down back. We can't afford to carry a tour guide. Lewis like Hodge has gone one or two seasons too many...

If you think Hodge's worth to the Lions is based purely on his on-field output you are sadly mistaken. Yes he looked slow last night but the pies are fast.

Hodge is the backline general who along with the coach know the game plan intimately. It is even more critical having bloke's like Hidge and Lewis in the side when there are no runners allowed on to the field. They are getting to the end of their careers but can still have very valuable input into developing sides.

[jnrmac 20,055]

1 minute ago, Deemania since 56 said:

I am concerned, more than worried. He has openly stated that the two of them are an onfield team - in the past. 

I doubt he said that and it doesn't make sense seeing as he is a full forward. In any case he is highly unlikely to throw the toys out of the pram when his brother has been dropped for being poor. If it was the case they both should go. That would be a pathetic response from a professional athlete.

 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,801]

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Yes, I hope Mrs McDonald is OK too. FFS are you really worried about TMac because his little brother was dropped? His little brother has been poor for quite a while. Needs to learn his craft at Casey, not the seniors. 

I'm thinking the comeditiveness in Tommy will probably be happy that Oscar has been dropped and that he's not a liability to the team given what his output has been.

That said Tommy hasn't been that great in his own right, but it's both harder to play forward and he has shown he might not be that far off his best in patches.  If Tommy were to spend a bit of time in the backline to provide a bit of tall cover for Oscar, filling in the hole and clucking a few marks, that might be good for his confidence as well.

[Deemania since 56 6,608]

Just now, jnrmac said:

I doubt he said that and it doesn't make sense seeing as he is a full forward. In any case he is highly unlikely to throw the toys out of the pram when his brother has been dropped for being poor. If it was the case they both should go. That would be a pathetic response from a professional athlete.

 

As stated earlier, I would agree with your last sentence.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,801]

I'm interested to see how the big Preuss goes this week.  From what I understand, the Saints backline isn't that much chop.  If we are worried about covering their run, they should be worried about covering our tall forwards. 

We also need to learn to kick better to position with Preuss in the side and for him to be in the right spot.  If we do that, then all those practical loose ball gets that Alir Alir mopped up last week disappear and Preuss either clunks another half a dozen marks and/or we have crumbers at the drop of the ball running into goal.  Guys like Hunt, Spargo, Hannan and Jeffy, could/should have a feild day!

Edited April 19, 2019 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[rjay 24,885]

45 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

If you think Hodge's worth to the Lions is based purely on his on-field output you are sadly mistaken. Yes he looked slow last night but the pies are fast.

Hodge is the backline general who along with the coach know the game plan intimately. It is even more critical having bloke's like Hidge and Lewis in the side when there are no runners allowed on to the field. They are getting to the end of their careers but can still have very valuable input into developing sides.

Yep, and that's ok in a team like Brisbane...

We should be well past that stage if we are to be a legitimate flag contender.

Are we still developing like Brisbane, GC & Carlton or are we ahead of them?

Carlton will move quickly once they learn to win...if Clarkson had that list they would be a finals contender this season.

If we are a legitimate flag contender then Lewis' job is done here.

I've run another thread where I asked whether "The Writing was/is on the Wall"

I'm not sure our list is good enough yet and think we're still in rebuild, the window many not yet be open for us.

If you're telling me we still need Lewis then it answers that question.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,677]

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

Hunt is looking very good as a forward.   I admit I thought he would be a total bust there, but hes doing great.   If he can continue to improve the team will be so much more dangerous. 

Totally agree , I reckon the FD are onto something here. He’s got the tackling/forward pressure , just to work on his crumbing/front and centre and he’ll be a real weapon. 

Pretty good set shot and can kick them on the run. 

Go Hunty!