POSTGAME: Rd 03 vs Essendon

[Brownie 5,988]

4 hours ago, —coach— said:

I had an interesting conversation with a coach of a team I won’t name. It’s his view that it’s the coach of the specific area who is responsible for the vast majority of the coaching and strategy in that area and the head coach is largely a manager of other coaches. This fits with what we have seen at both collingwood and Richmond in sacking their assistant coaches and retaining their head coach which in both cases was a very successful move. Others have posted on here that there may be rumblings on specific assistant coaches at the moment and I wonder if we will see a shake up in that area at years end. 

As mentioned previously. Bring back Rawlings before he is poached!

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I’m currently re-watching the first quarter of the Elimation Final against Geelong from last year, and while I do think we overachieved last season it’s a nice reminder to see this group playing so well.

The big thing I take out of it is how much better our structure was, but also how much quicker and fitter we looked.

Whilst I think finals are almost certainly out of the equation this year, watching this replay does give me some hope that we really are just a team that is lacking fitness and form to key players.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

12 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I’m currently re-watching the first quarter of the Elimation Final against Geelong from last year, and while I do think we overachieved last season it’s a nice reminder to see this group playing so well.

The big thing I take out of it is how much better our structure was, but also how much quicker and fitter we looked.

Whilst I think finals are almost certainly out of the equation this year, watching this replay does give me some hope that we really are just a team that is lacking fitness and form to key players.

Well said, Clint.

What that, and the Hawks final,  also show that we really miss Hannan and AVB.  They were either kicking or setting up goals throughout both games and we are missing their hardness and versatility up forward.  Even Spargo was up and about in those games.  

But as you say, it does help to put things in perspective.

[John Demonic 5,850]

4 hours ago, sisso said:

I agree that at some stage we will play decent footy this season but like Essendon last year, it may be too little too late

Ironically, the seasons 2nd half might be a more entertaining block of games if we finally click, than last year. When we have our backs against the wall and are in do-die games to make the 8, things could get interesting. With winnable games and then: WCE, Rich, Coll, Syd. We're so far from it, but if we can beat those clubs, it would provide us with some momentum going into 2020, even if we miss the finals. Just like it did for the Bulldogs last year. All is not lost if we get our gameplan in order and show up and prove we can match those clubs. If our [censored] falls out from under us and we don't put in any effort because the finals hope is over, well then god help us for next year.

Edited April 6, 2019 by John Demonic

[Vineytime 854]

So.....

Coll W 1 - L 2

Rich W 1 - L2

Mel W 0 - L3

 

there is still light ? 

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, Brownie said:

As mentioned previously. Bring back Rawlings before he is poached!

He wants too coach VFL.   So he can be poached.

[DV8 2,271]

32 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I’m currently re-watching the first quarter of the Elimation Final against Geelong from last year, and while I do think we overachieved last season it’s a nice reminder to see this group playing so well.

The big thing I take out of it is how much better our structure was, but also how much quicker and fitter we looked.

Whilst I think finals are almost certainly out of the equation this year, watching this replay does give me some hope that we really are just a team that is lacking fitness and form to key players.

That's the game that woke Scott up...  to change his team.  And he recruited well.

Tthey are very different, now.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

4 minutes ago, Vineytime said:

So.....

Coll W 1 - L 2

Rich W 1 - L2

Mel W 0 - L3

 

there is still light ? 

Yep.  Plenty of teams who have kicked off the year well aren't ones I expect to keep it up all season.  The Dogs are a prime example.  Being 0-3 puts us behind the other two you mentioned, but I think it does keep our season alive... just.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

36 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I’m currently re-watching the first quarter of the Elimation Final against Geelong from last year, and while I do think we overachieved last season it’s a nice reminder to see this group playing so well.

The big thing I take out of it is how much better our structure was, but also how much quicker and fitter we looked.

Whilst I think finals are almost certainly out of the equation this year, watching this replay does give me some hope that we really are just a team that is lacking fitness and form to key players.

I think this is pessimistic/MFCSS revisionism.

If we didn't "deserve" to make the finals (and we did, because we finished 5th), we won back-to-back finals, which surely puts that argument to bed. The fact we got beaten badly in the prelim doesn't mean we weren't deserving of being there, or that we overachieved by getting there.

We were a strong team last year but for a variety of reasons it's not working this year.

As to your observations, I'm sure the fitness issue is playing a bigger role than any of us want to admit. We're being beaten in the contest (0-3 in CPs), we're not running off half-back well, and we're not defending hard enough (which incorporates not running hard enough defensively). I'm sure these are all reflective of our poor pre-season.

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

24 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I think this is pessimistic/MFCSS revisionism.

If we didn't "deserve" to make the finals (and we did, because we finished 5th), we won back-to-back finals, which surely puts that argument to bed. The fact we got beaten badly in the prelim doesn't mean we weren't deserving of being there, or that we overachieved by getting there.

We were a strong team last year but for a variety of reasons it's not working this year.

As to your observations, I'm sure the fitness issue is playing a bigger role than any of us want to admit. We're being beaten in the contest (0-3 in CPs), we're not running off half-back well, and we're not defending hard enough (which incorporates not running hard enough defensively). I'm sure these are all reflective of our poor pre-season.

After being their whipping boys for a decade beating Hawthorn in a final must have been the pinnacle of achievement for some. The bath water flowed copiously and into the players heads.The immediate backslide since has been spectacular. Can it be reversed?

Edited April 6, 2019 by america de cali

[Dr. Gonzo 24,302]

16 hours ago, John Demonic said:

The rose colored glass mob in this forum have been blindsided by this, refusing to see that last years unaddressed deficiencies would be our downfall this year. (Although we all have to this 0-3 extent)

The elephant in the room is that we should've missed the finals last year but had some fortunate circumstances go our way with Kennedy missing and GWS already cemented in the 8. We were continually destroyed by fast teams that used the wide expanses of the G all year. ALL YEAR I asked "when are we going to get a big win like in 2017?" Our big wins turned out to be False Dawns. A terrible Adelaide by 100, and WCE over there without their key pillars. The same problems last year with our defence and lacklustre forward entries, have now turned into the key reasons for our demise as other teams have worked us out. All of that papered over because wE MaDe ThE PreLiM.

We beat up on the weak teams but continually failed against the better teams. Sadly the weak teams have now improved ten fold and we've been exposed.

There is some truth in what you've written but you've gone to the other extreme in completely disregarding the good form and progress we made last year.

People don't like hearing it but we are still a young team, especially our core group. This year is a write off for me but I'm still optimistic about the team in the long term.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

In case it hasn't been mentioned, i thought the umpiring in this game was as close to gutter(if i'm allowed to use the word) Umpiring as i have seen . I couldn't give  a rats on the numbers. It was when they were given that counted, and when they were not. Blatant cheating...

''and the opposition were not on the footpath either. 

[John Demonic 5,850]

28 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

There is some truth in what you've written but you've gone to the other extreme in completely disregarding the good form and progress we made last year.

People don't like hearing it but we are still a young team, especially our core group. This year is a write off for me but I'm still optimistic about the team in the long term.

Fair call. The last week has been a tumultuous time as a demon fan and it's awful and emotional seeing issues from last year unaddressed and leading to our demise so far this year, so it's hard to look back right now and ignore those faults and see the progress we did make. The overall block of progress from 2014 onwards has been a brilliant boon for the club however, so we've been on the right track and it's been a bumpy but worthwhile ride. But now it just feels like we may be at a fork in the road where a lot of the good work may become undone with a poor season that leaves us as run-of-the-mill as many other teams with a list full of potential that may never fulfill itself, while other lists do.

And now to top it off our prize recruit that was our great promise of holding together our backline came back unfit and overweight, an absolute disgrace!

3 weeks in though, need to calm down.

Edited April 6, 2019 by John Demonic

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

8 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

I think this is pessimistic/MFCSS revisionism.

If we didn't "deserve" to make the finals (and we did, because we finished 5th), we won back-to-back finals, which surely puts that argument to bed. The fact we got beaten badly in the prelim doesn't mean we weren't deserving of being there, or that we overachieved by getting there.

We were a strong team last year but for a variety of reasons it's not working this year.

As to your observations, I'm sure the fitness issue is playing a bigger role than any of us want to admit. We're being beaten in the contest (0-3 in CPs), we're not running off half-back well, and we're not defending hard enough (which incorporates not running hard enough defensively). I'm sure these are all reflective of our poor pre-season.

Maybe “overachieved” was the wrong word, there were just a quite a few weaknesses to our game which we could cover at the time but are now being exposed.

[samcantstandya 1,057]

7 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Fair call. The last week has been a tumultuous time as a demon fan and it's awful and emotional seeing issues from last year unaddressed and leading to our demise so far this year, so it's hard to look back right now and ignore those faults and see the progress we did make. The overall block of progress from 2014 onwards has been a brilliant boon for the club however, so we've been on the right track and it's been a bumpy but worthwhile ride. But now it just feels like we may be at a fork in the road where a lot of the good work may become undone with a poor season that leaves us as run-of-the-mill as many other teams with a list full of potential that may never fulfill itself, while other lists do.

And now to top it off our prize recruit that was our great promise of holding together our backline came back unfit and overweight, an absolute disgrace!

3 weeks in though, need to calm down.

 

May owes us big time. Similar to Lewis when in his first/second got rubbed out  because of poor self discipline.  

[Gator 17,474]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Maybe “overachieved” was the wrong word, there were just a quite a few weaknesses to our game which we could cover at the time but are now being exposed.

It's certainly the wrong word.

It's not possible for sporting teams to overachieve.

[GCDee 3,199]

10 hours ago, Vineytime said:

So.....

Coll W 1 - L 2

Rich W 1 - L2

Mel W 0 - L3

 

there is still light ? 

This is the only hope we have the fact that the teams that "should" be top 8 are off to really slow starts. 

Add Adelaide and to a lesser extent Essendon, Sydney (never out of a season) and norf (tipped to be there abouts) to that list, none of these teams have more than 1 win. 

 

 

[Redleg 41,449]

20 hours ago, Jaded said:

This makes me so angry. We traded a 50 goal a year forward (for a combination of reasons which I support btw), and then gave up pick 6 for someone who wasn’t even in shape! 

I like May and I know why we traded for him, but FML how did the club not do their due diligence? Why did Goodwin not go meet with him during the trade period and tell him he has to come in to pre season raring to go. I mean what sort of a 27 year old footballer even needs to be told that? And he was a vice captain? Laughable stuff  

Our backline is an epic failure and the player we recruited and spent so much on to rectify that isn’t playing because he’s unfit. The mind boggles. 

I think this is not what he said and what we are saying.

He didn’t come to us as a cake gorging, beer swilling slob. He came to us in similar condition to that which he did every year at the Suns. He acknowledged that our boys were far fitter at that point and he was shocked at the difference.

He then knuckled down, lost weight immediately and improved his fitness bringing him into line with the rest of the list.

He is now in our system and is aware of our standards and hopefully will be the player we desperately need given Lever’s absence and Oscar’s current form.

I am not sure his groin injury has anything to do with his condition when he arrived, given he has been training with us for 5 months. His suspension was a crock given Cox did worse by running across the line of Grimes and hitting him flush on the jaw. Of course Cox is a Pie and a celebrity overseas player.

PS, May is not the reason we are playing poorly.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Redleg

[loges 6,767]

10 hours ago, willmoy said:

In case it hasn't been mentioned, i thought the umpiring in this game was as close to gutter(if i'm allowed to use the word) Umpiring as i have seen . I couldn't give  a rats on the numbers. It was when they were given that counted, and when they were not. Blatant cheating...

''and the opposition were not on the footpath either. 

Plenty have mentioned it. I am disappointed the rage has died down it was that bad.

[Dee Zephyr 19,269]

It might have been mentioned already and apologies if it has, but there are so many threads it’s impossible to keep up at times.

An observation on our defensive set up in the 1st and 3rd quarters from Punt Rd goals. It was puzzling to see our backs line up on different ESS forwards in nearly every centre bounce in those quarters. Do we like to rotate our defenders or is the opposition simply regularly throwing a different mix down there to confuse us even further knowing there’s a lot of panic at the moment amongst the back 6?

Stringer had 3 different opponents at one stage in the first and that included Fritsch. Oscar and Frost regularly swapped between McKernan and Clarke especially in the first when a lot of damage was done. Ess had Shiel, Smith, Baguley deep at different stages. Fantasia and Tippa were rarely used deep, more so high half forwards and wing so they can damage us on the rebound. We can’t afford to have Hibbo sprint 50 meters back when the ball is kicked over his head to man up the guy out the back or deepest forward. It’s happened numerous times this year and Hibbo is best used as a dasher from half back. His disposal seems to have suffered a bit from 2017, is he maybe spending too many petrol tickets this way? Is the wing a possibility for him? 

My confusion stems from seeing our backs gather together after we concede a goal for an encouragement knuckle touch or whatever it’s called only to be followed by a lot of head shaking and finger pointing. This is where Lewis is needed. 

This is purely an observation from ground level fence. Also, looking up at the interchange board, I noticed Jones and Viney were on the bench together a few times. A lot are questioning their leadership, but surely at least keep one of them out there during crucial times.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

4 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Maybe “overachieved” was the wrong word, there were just a quite a few weaknesses to our game which we could cover at the time but are now being exposed.

I think that's a better way of putting it.

The same big weakness in our game (the high forward press leaving us exposed out the back) has reared its head repeatedly since Goodwin started. The St Kilda loss last year was I think a turning point of sorts, as from there until the Prelim our stoppage work and forward half pressure was so strong that only Sydney was able to get through us (until the Prelim). 

I think a combination of poor fitness, interrupted pre-seasons leading to a lack of continuity in the 22 during pre-season training, individual injuries and key players being down on form (this is as important as anything else) has meant that our stoppage work is down on 2018 and our forward half pressure is not good enough, which has put us back to being opened up out the back again.

1 hour ago, Dee Zephyr said:

It might have been mentioned already and apologies if it has, but there are so many threads it’s impossible to keep up at times.

An observation on our defensive set up in the 1st and 3rd quarters from Punt Rd goals. It was puzzling to see our backs line up on different ESS forwards in nearly every centre bounce in those quarters. Do we like to rotate our defenders or is the opposition simply regularly throwing a different mix down there to confuse us even further knowing there’s a lot of panic at the moment amongst the back 6?

Stringer had 3 different opponents at one stage in the first and that included Fritsch. Oscar and Frost regularly swapped between McKernan and Clarke especially in the first when a lot of damage was done. Ess had Shiel, Smith, Baguley deep at different stages. Fantasia and Tippa were rarely used deep, more so high half forwards and wing so they can damage us on the rebound. We can’t afford to have Hibbo sprint 50 meters back when the ball is kicked over his head to man up the guy out the back or deepest forward. It’s happened numerous times this year and Hibbo is best used as a dasher from half back. His disposal seems to have suffered a bit from 2017, is he maybe spending too many petrol tickets this way? Is the wing a possibility for him? 

My confusion stems from seeing our backs gather together after we concede a goal for an encouragement knuckle touch or whatever it’s called only to be followed by a lot of head shaking and finger pointing. This is where Lewis is needed. 

This is purely an observation from ground level fence. Also, looking up at the interchange board, I noticed Jones and Viney were on the bench together a few times. A lot are questioning their leadership, but surely at least keep one of them out there during crucial times.

I noticed Stringer had Oscar and Frost at different stages during the first quarter but I didn't notice some of the other things you mentioned.

It's not surprising though. I think we have a significant and destructive level of disorganisation and a lack of confidence in the six who are down there, and a complete lack of on-field leadership. It doesn't help that the two leaders we do have out there, Hibberd and Jetta, are down on their own form.

[jnrmac 20,187]

14 hours ago, DV8 said:

He wants too coach VFL.   So he can be poached.

He needed to coach his own team AND have Casey players play the Melbourne system.

[jnrmac 20,187]

 dysfunctional backline without leadership is easy to exploit.

We miss Lewis more than people realise and of course it doesn't help having defenders that can't defend, or 3 of them fly for the same ball and leave Ess players out the back or have a brain in their head because they guard 'space' not players. Sure we don't have May and Lever but we didn't for most of last year as well.

[beelzebub 23,383]

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

 dysfunctional backline without leadership is easy to exploit.

We miss Lewis more than people realise and of course it doesn't help having defenders that can't defend, or 3 of them fly for the same ball and leave Ess players out the back or have a brain in their head because they guard 'space' not players. Sure we don't have May and Lever but we didn't for most of last year as well.

^^^^^^

Yep.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

On which planet does Tanking equate to Systematic Drug Induction.................on Carole's of course..........wtf