1 hour ago, Demonland said:

Speaking about his goal kicking I think Trac seemed to lose confidence in front of goal. He seemed to always look to give it off when in range.

It's interesting this. I think his set shot kickin suffered after the blow torch was put on him that selfish piece of play in the middle part of the 2018 season. His game (in many ways) got better as the season went on, but his kicking for goal certainly never really seemed to recover after that period.

Some of the criticisms are a little cover the top. Can he improve? Absolutely. Will he improve?. Probably. Have another a look a the semi final against Hawthorn to see what influence he can have on the team. 

6 hours ago, durango said:

I watch Garry Lyon train in the old days and he never pushed himself either so he knows what a waste of talent is when you think you can just turn up and perform

One of the great athletes of all time Carl Lewis used to have a saying 'when you are number 1 you have to train like number 2' also Jesse Owens had a saying 'that people say I am lucky but the harder I train the luckier I get' the saying's are basically true but lazy sportsmen blame other things for their failure to get to the top of the heap.

Carl Lewis got busted for banned stimulants and his country hid it so he could compete in the Olympics,  Lewis was a fraud

3 hours ago, A F said:

I agree with the view that Petracca's 2018 is underrated by some Demonland posters. The comparisons with De Goey are always going to be there, but what people don't realise is due to Petracca's injury, he's played a season less than De Goey. I expect and hope year 4 (of game time) will see a step up, because we really do need him to fire in the forward half and in stints through the midfield.

He is a pick 2 so the pressure to perform is rightly placed, given our investment in him. Some of his goal assists in the 2018 finals series were absolute gold though.

Exactly.  And if Garry wants to be true to the 'be like Gawn' comparison - he had two knee reco's and took a good half a dozen seasons to reach his full potential.

...don't really wish that on Trac.

4 hours ago, Demonland said:

Speaking about his goal kicking I think Trac seemed to lose confidence in front of goal. He seemed to always look to give it off when in range.

I'm not so sure that this was as much about loosing confidence as it was about playing to team rules/system.  Whilst he certainly didn't kick many/any big bags, I think Trac certainly used the ball well inside 50 to give it off to team mates in better positions.  This is typical of the play of many of our other top forwards like ANB, Melksham and even guys like Tommy regularly give off to the higher percentage option than go for the  kickable but lower percentage goal themselves.

 

 

A lot of perceptions around this call Garry has made and others hint at, so I'll add some of my own.  He's certainly an extraverted, confident character Trac, but I also sence a ultra compeditiveness that wouldn't be satisfied with being an average player in a good side, so I don't have too many concerns that he wouldn't be seeking advice from all his relevant peers, coaches and fitness staff and pushing himself to become the champion he believes he can be in his own mind.

The other thought that comes into my mind is a quote from Paul Roos or someone that after players are drafted, the number they are picked at becomes irrelevant.  Whilst we all want Trac to become an absolute champion of the game that would somehow justify that pick 2 selection, I'd be quite happy for the rookie Harms to become the champion player like Sam Mitchell was for the Hawks, whilst Trac is just plays a solid team role in the next MFC premiership team.

Petracca's plea to Lyon

Be insightfull

The amount of work Trac put in leading up to and during his draft year was huge. It wasn't a case of I'll get by on my natural talent. He reinvented himself, but now just finding out there are some who are just endurance freaks playing at the highest level 

Everybody should be replicating Gawn's fitness regime he's close to the best player in the AFL.

Petracca is a natural ball-sport player: basketball, footy etc... come easy to him because his instincts and reactions are amazing. He has all the skills, great vision, incredible eye-hand co-ordination. His goal kicking is probably a mental thing and when he gets it right, look out. I also think he has trained very hard since being at the Dees. I remember the photos from his first training sessions when he realised how far he had to go to work alongside Nathan Jones and Bernie Vince. 

Like Max, I don't reckon he has to work harder, he has to work smarter, and change the way he trains. Less gym, more longer distance running, rowing, boxing. 

I have to admit to being a fan, and his 2018 season was very, very good. His influence and goal assists were breathtaking at times. Even if he doesn't improve any further he is a wonderful footballer and I love what he brings. However, with his skills and smarts he could become anything. If he can train smarter, change his body shape slightly, run more, then the sky is the limit.

14 hours ago, DavidNeitz9 said:

Carl Lewis got busted for banned stimulants and his country hid it so he could compete in the Olympics,  Lewis was a fraud

Lewis defended himself in 2003, claiming that he had accidentally consumed the banned substances for the 1988 Olympics. After the supplements that he had taken were analyzed to prove his claims, the USOC accepted his claim of inadvertent use, since a dietary supplement he ingested was found to contain "Ma huang", the Chinese name for ephedrine is known to help weight loss.

The highest level of the stimulants Lewis recorded was 6 ppm, which was regarded as a positive test in 1988 but is now regarded as negative test.

His sayings are always true even if you believe he took drugs to enhance 1988 performances at the the US Olympic trials not at the Olympics. 

14 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

...

I'm not so sure that this was as much about loosing confidence as it was about playing to team rules/system.  Whilst he certainly didn't kick many/any big bags, I think Trac certainly used the ball well inside 50 to give it off to team mates in better positions.  This is typical of the play of many of our other top forwards like ANB, Melksham and even guys like Tommy regularly give off to the higher percentage option than go for the  kickable but lower percentage goal themselves.

...

Don't paint it any other way, his poor goal kicking was clearly a confidence thing.  He got to the stage where he didn't want to take a shot because he felt he would miss.

20 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Maybe it's just me but I think Petracca's  2018 season was very underrated by DL posters.  I'd rate his season as good as he averaged 20 possessions a game playing predominately half forward.  He had over 40 shots at goal but was inaccurate compared to his previous year but all his major stats were up.

He came with a lot of expectation and I understand some are disappointed he isn't yet a superstar but it's only his fourth season in the AFL with his first ruined by injury.  What I find more disappointing is people questioning his attitude when the reality is I doubt many know and are just guessing.  Questioning someone's attitude by guessing is poor form.

As for Lyon's view - I couldn't care less. 

 

 

Totally agree. I think when talent isn’t fulfilled many just trot out the ‘not training hard enough’ despite little evidence from training he isn’t going 100%

 

Watching every game closely I see a talent who gets elite numbers for a half forward (you can back him in for 20 possies), a player with little confidence when shooting for goal and a player without the tank to play as an on baller.

 

He doesn’t quite have that acceleration I heard about as a junior either.

 

I think like Ablett he will have that breakout year when he simply gets more of the ball, not being more exciting.

 

Even if he just gets his kicking confidence up (e.g Hawks finals was sublime at times) he will be better than Robbie Gray. But will he ever become an on baller? Hmmm there are comparisons to Martin but he was doing major midfield minutes at the same stage. Perhaps he just wont have the tank.I’d like to see him play wing more and have more ability to run and carry.

Great idea. Come back early after knee surgery, what could go wrong? 

Nice one Gary ... 

1 hour ago, The Chazz said:

Don't paint it any other way, his poor goal kicking was clearly a confidence thing.  He got to the stage where he didn't want to take a shot because he felt he would miss.

I know that he can kick a good goal on his day, but Trac has never given me the impression of being a confident or reliable goal kicker since he arrived at the club.  He might have gone through a period here or there (2017 I recall he was fairly decient in patches), but that's about it.  Based on that, I think it's entirely appropriate that he plays more within his capability and the teams game plan of finding players in better positions to kick goals inside 50.

18 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I know that he can kick a good goal on his day, but Trac has never given me the impression of being a confident or reliable goal kicker since he arrived at the club.  He might have gone through a period here or there (2017 I recall he was fairly decient in patches), but that's about it.  Based on that, I think it's entirely appropriate that he plays more within his capability and the teams game plan of finding players in better positions to kick goals inside 50.

Take a look at his 2017 goals...

Compare them to many of his goals from this year, where he was often looking to dish off, or played on to kick around his body.

Also, in 2017 he kicked 26 goals, 6 behinds.  In 2018 he kicked 19 goals, 23 behinds.

It's confidence.

Trac doesn't seem to have an attitude problem.

He clearly loves the club and is hungry for success.

He does go missing too often though - I suspect it's absolutely confidence-related/mental etc.

Anyone know what his GPS stats are (on average) per game? He could probably work on his aerobic capacity a bit.

 

Thanks- great highlights!

 

On 11/8/2018 at 1:56 PM, Demon Disciple said:

A bit hard for him to come back early considering he won’t be back until the new year given his post-season clean up surgery.

Excuses are the meat of a lie wrapped in the skin of reason

Maxie is Maxie, Tracca is Tracca and Garry is just an opinion these days. I am unaware of any real evidence that Tracca is not trying 100%. Just because he looks less urgent doesn't mean he is.

Apart from 42 shots at goals in 2018 does anyone know how many he dished off eg. Jones goal early in the last quarter against cats, pass to TMac near goal square in one of the finals? Quick possessions, good decision making and makes a great contribution.

Let him play his game, not ours.

2020 (magic in numbers - 1+9+6+4 = 20)

Go dees

 

On 11/8/2018 at 2:58 PM, Baghdad Bob said:

Maybe it's just me but I think Petracca's  2018 season was very underrated by DL posters.  I'd rate his season as good as he averaged 20 possessions a game playing predominately half forward.  He had over 40 shots at goal but was inaccurate compared to his previous year but all his major stats were up.

He came with a lot of expectation and I understand some are disappointed he isn't yet a superstar but it's only his fourth season in the AFL with his first ruined by injury.  What I find more disappointing is people questioning his attitude when the reality is I doubt many know and are just guessing.  Questioning someone's attitude by guessing is poor form.

As for Lyon's view - I couldn't care less. 

 

Petracca butchers the ball far too often for a talented young player. Also putting teammates under the pump with poorly executed disposals.

Wasted opportunities, that can be improved on, from a much better fitness base, and better focus and application.

He still plays and thinks like a boy, instead of a young man going places...  boys just like to have fun,,, don't they ?

 

.

11 hours ago, Smokey said:

Great idea. Come back early after knee surgery, what could go wrong? 

Nice one Gary ... 

Swimming, Gym work, upper body work, boxing and rowing.

All he apparently had, was a clean-out of his knee... which knee I'm not so sure.  There is plenty he can do early, before he hits the running track.  Alter g treadmill. etc.

10 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Trac doesn't seem to have an attitude problem.

He clearly loves the club and is hungry for success.

He does go missing too often though - I suspect it's absolutely confidence-related/mental etc.

Anyone know what his GPS stats are (on average) per game? He could probably work on his aerobic capacity a bit.

 

Elite fitness absolutely helps these areas.

7 hours ago, DV8 said:

Swimming, Gym work, upper body work, boxing and rowing.

All he apparently had, was a clean-out of his knee... which knee I'm not so sure.  There is plenty he can do early, before he hits the running track.  Alter g treadmill. etc.

For sure, I understand what Gary’s getting at. I’d like to see trac lose some weight for sure. Rather he train with stretch than many tho 

i'm probably one of the most critical posters on demonland (just go to the hogan and watts threads) but even though petracca had a down season i'm not too worried about him. He shouldn't be compared to degoey (probably the best young player forward of centre in the game) but instead to mccartin who went at pick 1. So i'm fine with petracca when i see where petracca is at.

He has 2 choices. He either improves his endurance so he can play midfield or he improves his goal kicking and plays forward. At this stage i like him half forward 1.5 kicks away from goal as at this stage he is too much of a liability kicking for goal.  Ive noticed when he is snapping for goal that he kicks the ball higher than he needs to and allows for it to work back far too much. if he just aimed for the middle and kicked it lower he'd fix that problem entirely. i hope the forwards coach reads this message!

Edited November 9, 20186 yr by Dr.D

On 11/8/2018 at 12:56 PM, Demon Disciple said:

A bit hard for him to come back early considering he won’t be back until the new year given his post-season clean up surgery.

NO EXCUSES!!!

4 hours ago, Smokey said:

For sure, I understand what Gary’s getting at. I’d like to see trac lose some weight for sure. Rather he train with stretch than many tho 

IMV... he's still playing like an amateur... with amateur style thinking.  Because, I think, of his huge natural gifts, which he was born with.

I want to see what it is he has built onto his body, and his game, by his own mental efforts...  onto his base, of his natural conception gifts.

 

He still carries too much puppy fat...condition, on his frame.    He is nowhere near, 'cut' enough.

.

Edited November 10, 20186 yr by DV8