On 17/10/2018 at 11:57, Dappa Dan said:

That's what worries me a bit. I know they're different beasts, and Jesse had a bigger body even in his late teens, but in his first 4 years... hell his first season... he showed more than Weed.

Do remember, what we remember as Hogan’s first year was actually his third year in the system and in that year, he didn’t perform comparably to how Weid did in some huge games to finish this season.

(Don’t get me wrong, I rate Hogan enormously and was gutted when I first thought about him leaving, but I do believe we will be a better team with the inclusion of May)

  On 17/10/2018 at 09:08, Vineytime said:

Agree think he could be perfect 3rd fwd along with Melksham. 

Yes, I do! I can see Fritsch more up forward as well as AVB 

  On 17/10/2018 at 05:39, The Chazz said:

In 2012, May kicked 3 goals and took 12 marks against Hawthorn.  Could he, when match-ups permit, play a swinging role?

He kicked a +55m goal against us from the boundary at the Gabba this year.

  On 17/10/2018 at 12:03, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

Do remember, what we remember as Hogan’s first year was actually his third year in the system and in that year, he didn’t perform comparably to how Weid did in some huge games to finish this season.

(Don’t get me wrong, I rate Hogan enormously and was gutted when I first thought about him leaving, but I do believe we will be a better team with the inclusion of May)

His first season he was ineligible (mini draft) so that doesn't count... the next season he was out for the full year, except for a pre season. First 20 games he kicked 40. Sam, playing out of the square, has kicked less than half that.

I see your point, and to some degree I'm with you. I stopped judging KPFs based on their first 3 years after the Saints traded Lynch for a pack of chips to Adelaide where he's dominated.

You could be right, I'm just not seeing the embryonic stages of a great from him yet. Although I do reckon he kicks it further when going for goal and is better over the top of packs (as opposed to busting them). Boy it's a helluva thought though... to have lost a player like Jesse, and had a guy walk into his spot who's as good or better.

Agree on May. He'd make any backline better. I don't believe May is the superior player at all, but we get him and Lever back in his intercept role. Super. Perhaps the best part though is that we get May, and Pies don't. Could be huge.

  On 17/10/2018 at 12:16, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

He kicked a +55m goal against us from the boundary at the Gabba this year.

May played as a forward as a Junior.

Petty also has played forward.

Joel Smith will be tried forward.

We also have  Hannan, VDB and Fritsch as forwards who can play tall.

Max can rest forward.

Preuss is no worse than Cox and could play patches up forward.

Last resort we have Tim Smith who could fill in. 

Edited October 17, 20186 yr by Redleg

We now have a couple of picks in the 20s, of which one selection might be used on Noah Gown.

As a bit of a long shot, Sam Frost was recruited to the MFC and played most of his first season with us as a forward.

Whilst he never looked completely comfortable forward and has played far better footy for us as a backman, you just never know.  Takes a mean grab, that burst of speed he has could be hard to match up on and has a huge boot on him.

Frosty could also find it tough competing with Oscar for the second key back role now we have May, however I'd also think that the pace he has could make him quite versatile and I could even see him playing on a half back flank or wing, where his height would also make him very difficult to match up on.

  On 17/10/2018 at 12:17, Dappa Dan said:

His first season he was ineligible (mini draft) so that doesn't count... the next season he was out for the full year, except for a pre season. First 20 games he kicked 40. Sam, playing out of the square, has kicked less than half that.

I see your point, and to some degree I'm with you. I stopped judging KPFs based on their first 3 years after the Saints traded Lynch for a pack of chips to Adelaide where he's dominated.

You could be right, I'm just not seeing the embryonic stages of a great from him yet. Although I do reckon he kicks it further when going for goal and is better over the top of packs (as opposed to busting them). Boy it's a helluva thought though... to have lost a player like Jesse, and had a guy walk into his spot who's as good or better.

Agree on May. He'd make any backline better. I don't believe May is the superior player at all, but we get him and Lever back in his intercept role. Super. Perhaps the best part though is that we get May, and Pies don't. Could be huge.

Here's why I wouldn't worry so much.

1. We have a guy for Hogan's best spot - a guy who really stole it this year in T Mc. He's the CHF of our side. 

2. The full forward role Hogan often played this year can be covered by Weid. Who has shown - maybe not enough but he has done it - a few really nice things:
A) An ability to beat up on bad teams on the rare occasions he got great supply at Casey. In his first year he had a couple of 4 goal games, a couple of 3's. In an interrupted second year he had a game where he kicked 6. And last year at Casey in 10 games he had a 7 a 5 and a 4. 
B) The ability to go in to the ruck
C). A growing inclination to tackle and pressure
It's too hard to be a reliable full forward these days and consistently take marks and kick goals. The better player to have in that 2nd tall role is one who can kick some goals on their day but contributes in other ways.

3. We have multiple players capable of beating one on one match ups deep - Petracca, Melksham, Hannan. These are often the guys you want inside 50 now.

It's the balance of options and roles that not only covers the loss of Hogan but makes us better due to versatility and match ups.

  On 17/10/2018 at 12:17, Dappa Dan said:

His first season he was ineligible (mini draft) so that doesn't count... the next season he was out for the full year, except for a pre season.

Very true, but those two years would have been invaluable for Hogan’s development, something that shouldn’t be discarded 

Anyone know a young key forward who has consistently averaged over 2 goals per game that we can target? 

In all seriousness, we can manage with two keys in Weid and TMac with Preuss/Smith playing only when we think we can stretch the opposition tall's or need ruck support

  On 17/10/2018 at 05:39, The Chazz said:

In 2012, May kicked 3 goals and took 12 marks against Hawthorn.  Could he, when match-ups permit, play a swinging role?

And could Lever... or Oscar ???

  On 17/10/2018 at 10:10, beelzebub said:

Thing is possibly unlike your good self they do have a clue as to a plan. It's not really that overly disguised either. . Am sure you'll twig

Humour lost on you?

Probably

  On 17/10/2018 at 13:32, Satyriconhome said:

Humour lost on you?

Probably

no... maybe you're just not funny

We need a  no1 key fwd now after trading Hagan for way unders. Tmac will cop double teams every game and his output will drop. Weed completely unproven. Forward line's gone from a strength to a glaring weakness.

Maybe try Oscar as a key forward?  Cant see room for him in the backline now unless we have injuries.

And his brother goes ok up forward.  (Yeah I know, different players).

  On 17/10/2018 at 04:25, monoccular said:

It will be interesting to see who kicks goals in big pressure games, which is when Jesse seemed to struggle most.  

Probably the same old reliables: led by TMac, Melksham but now there are a few others who have learnt to do what is necessary in forward play. I also see AVB, Harmes, Hannan and ANB stepping up. It would be just mesmerising if Petracca hit that type of form, as well. The Weed? Good chance if he doubles his work rate. KK is ready-made so the pre-season is critical. I have a suspicion that the dark horse might be Preuss in a 'resting' role.

  On 17/10/2018 at 20:42, TheoX said:

We need a  no1 key fwd now after trading Hagan for way unders. Tmac will cop double teams every game and his output will drop. Weed completely unproven. Forward line's gone from a strength to a glaring weakness.

Can't agree with much of that unless the opposition plays 9 defenders.

  On 17/10/2018 at 13:07, DV8 said:

And could Lever... or Oscar ???

The concept of 'swing' is so confusing for opposition players to man-up upon. We have some reliables poised to play a swing role up front with potentially great effect. The strength factor is just fantastic now.

  On 17/10/2018 at 06:37, Salems Lot said:

my Kangas fan mate reckons we have the steal of the trade period with Preuss.  His words:"better than Max in 2 years" which I strongly doubt but even as good would be huge for us.

Only 23, learning from the best and Max obviously gets along well with him. Based on his AFLX comment. We might have a big win.

The big effect of playing two true ruckman is not just that one of them might play forward but that our two genuine KPFs won't be spending time as bit-part ruckmen. That means McDonald and Weideman will be in the forward line together for much longer periods not just because they won't be up the ground rucking but because they won't need to spend as much time off the ground to give them the energy needed to run all around the ground as the second ruckman. 

 

Surely Gunstan or Bruest are up for free agency soon?  Didn't they kick 40 odd goals for the Hawks this year?

Roughead must be close to pulling up stumps and I'd love to steel one of those two off them to totally cripple their forward line for a few years, just to spite them for Frawley.

Plus, how good would it be for the WEEEEEEEED to kick it to BROOOOOOOOST and vice versa.

We're not going to play with a 3 KP talls forward in 19. We'll use 2 talls with a floating utility..coming through with the play. 

They'll be a spread of goal kickers..Much harder to defend...more unpredictable eh Mr Smith

  On 17/10/2018 at 20:42, TheoX said:

We need a  no1 key fwd now after trading Hagan for way unders. Tmac will cop double teams every game and his output will drop. Weed completely unproven. Forward line's gone from a strength to a glaring weakness.

I'm not disputing that Hogan is a great player.  His last game for us this year was the loss vs Sydney, after that with TMac and Weed as key forwards we went on a four game winning streak against top 8 sides - WC in Perth scoring 108, GWS 102, Geelong 75 in a low scoring match and Hawthorn 104.  I don't think Hogan would have made any difference in the PF.  I think there's a fair body of evidence there that the forward line is not a glaring weakness.

Edited October 18, 20186 yr by Fifty-5

  On 17/10/2018 at 12:03, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

Do remember, what we remember as Hogan’s first year was actually his third year in the system and in that year, he didn’t perform comparably to how Weid did in some huge games to finish this season.

(Don’t get me wrong, I rate Hogan enormously and was gutted when I first thought about him leaving, but I do believe we will be a better team with the inclusion of May)

I don't think missing an entire year (bar one game) with back issues helped Hogan's development though.

He was just a gun straight off, as his B&F from 11 completed games as an 18 year old for Casey showed.

  On 17/10/2018 at 07:05, dieter said:

An incredible genetic leap means sfa because he hardly holds any marks: much as I love the guy.

Won't make it. Bookmark it. Same as Frost. Got no game sense. Is hard at it, but a liability by foot and his decision making is so-so.