Hogan is a very good player however he has not lived up my original expectations and I am confident he never will at MFC and confident he likely wont at another club. His numbers speak volumes both in possession and work rate which is why he is spoken of so highly but they don't mean much for mine once you scratch the surface. I recall salivating at him rag dolling Rance early in his career, launching at the ball and splitting the packs with contested grabs and commanding the front spot so he could protect it drop as he read it faster than all. Whether it is his back problems, his numerous life challenges he has faced, his personality or our game style he has not looked like being that player for 2-3 years.

The facts as shown before is he has consistently had a limited impact against the better sides and has big possession and goal games against the lower sides. He struggles to kick 50 but doesn't like playing deep and when he plays high he gets the ball but holds it up too long. He is a good field kick but a set shot in a pressure game from 35-40 in front I would not have him in the first 5 players I would want to take the shot. Whilst I think he has improved his demeanour if we don't play his way or he can't get his way it is pretty obvious when you have him beat. How often have you seen him have a quiet first quarter or half and fight his way back into a game?

Whilst I  think he has given his all as an individual I have never thought he has been fully connected with the team both in performance and brotherhood the way most others appear these days.  The facts are also that when not there we have played a higher scoring, higher pressure brand of footy. This is particularly shown against the better sides in our run home this year. If this was last year the sky would be falling but we have now seen that T-Mac is not a one hit wonder forward and we have seen the emergence of Weideman as not only a capable player now but a potential star if he matures on the natural path that forwards do. 

I suggest he has raised going or not committing to us post 2019 but I wouldn't be surprised if we brought this to a head and I don't think this is a one way conversation. I think we have seen the opportunity to maximise this situation to try to solve our broader deficiencies and make us a stronger team. 2 first round picks with use of one for May and KK and holding one inside 10 for the best available kid in the super draft or on trade for something bigger that brings us more speed and carry makes sense. I would back our list management and recruiting to get it right once again. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Rocky said:

what so you think if he stays with the suns next year may will remain captain? kid you're a dreamer.. no way. you lose that once you put yourself out there to other clubs.. yes, they can insist he stays if they don't get what they want pick-wise, but do they really want a bloke who has sat down and met with three other clubs to be 'leading them' (their defence, leadership group, etc)? don't think so!

Players do remain at their clubs if suitable trades aren’t agreed upon. They are professional footballers. 

Case in point. A contracted Bryce Gibbs wanted to go Adelaide end of 2016 but Carlton would not accept the Crows initial offer. Gibbs then stays at Carlton for another season and pretty sure he either won their B&F or at least finished in the top three.

Supporters get too emotional about player movements. For them it’s their livelihood and most adopt a professional attitude wherever they ply their trade. I doubt May would be any different. 

10 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

IMO it is.

I'm at peace with Hogan leaving, but I don't rate May nearly as much as others do and I do not necessarily see May coming into the side as being a net gain over Hogan leaving the side.

It won't be enough from gold coasts end. He is their captain, full back, one of a few senior big bodies they have.

35 minutes ago, EnterTheDragon said:

Posted this in the May thread but also relevant here:

For posters obsessed with draft picks here is a list of pick 10’s selected at the AFL draft since 2010.

Daniel Gorringe, Liam Sumner, Troy Menzel, Nathan Freeman, Nakia Cockatoo, Harry McKay, Jack Bowes, Lochie O’Brien.

 Wow what a veritable cavalcade of superstars. The first 4 names there I’m pretty sure have all already been delisted!

 

I'm not sure why people keep harping on about value of draft picks and going to the draft, most want decent players in return, ie: pick 5 + whatever can land you a Josh Kelly, has nothing to do with the draft. I think you may be trying to sway your opinion by continually talking about the draft.

hogan is and will be an absolute superstar

the more i think about it the more shattered i am that this generational talent is leaving us

fortunately we have two more 'once in a lifetime' players on our list in gawn and oliver

1 minute ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

hogan is and will be an absolute superstar

the more i think about it the more shattered i am that this generational talent is leaving us

fortunately we have two more 'once in a lifetime' players on our list in gawn and oliver

He hasn't left yet. Karl Langdon has stated he will bet his house on it that Jesse stays at the MFC.

7 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

hogan is and will be an absolute superstar

the more i think about it the more shattered i am that this generational talent is leaving us

fortunately we have two more 'once in a lifetime' players on our list in gawn and oliver

wow, you have very low standards. he is a good player..nothing more than that. he isnt even our best forward. he lacks in a lot of areas as a previous poster illustrated.

4 minutes ago, wizardinoz said:

He hasn't left yet. Karl Langdon has stated he will bet his house on it that Jesse stays at the MFC.

The only way this happens is if the trade requirements that the MFC have put on the table, and freo have In principal agreed to are not met by the dockers. 

This has been going on a while 

2 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

The only way this happens is if the trade requirements that the MFC have put on the table, and freo have In principal agreed to are not met by the dockers. 

This has been going on a while 

All speculation raised by journos & nothing more.

3 hours ago, Danelska said:

@Macca can you explain to me the difference between 1 year to go and 2 years to go, and what that does, compared to end of contract and 1 year to go? 

In a number of overseas sports 1-2 years to go in a contract doesn't deter a player (or the players manager) from shopping themselves around (privately)and nor does 1-2 years deter another club from approaching that player. 

It is why certain top players often end up being tied up to long term deals ... those long term deals not only satisfies the player involved but satisfies the club as they then are placed in a position of strength.

Once the length of a contract extends beyond 2 years the thinking changes.  We're really only talking about the top players here.

For instance,  there is a chance that Jesse's management was approached quite some time ago.  Same for Scully etc.  A long term deal keeps the wolves at the door.

To be honest,  I was more than a bit concerned when Jesse only re-signed a short-term deal back when his contract was extended.  And I suspect a number of others felt the same way.

Edited September 30, 20186 yr by Macca

11 minutes ago, wizardinoz said:

He hasn't left yet. Karl Langdon has stated he will bet his house on it that Jesse stays at the MFC.

Either Langdon is talking utter crap, or Bell is trying to spin the situation in terms of “wait a minute, I’ve just stepped into the role and we’re not even sure we want Hogan, and definitely not at that price” in an effort to get a better deal.

Wouldnt be the first time this sort of thing has happened - wait until a player is now mentally committed to leaving, then move the goalposts.

3 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

Either Langdon is talking utter crap, or Bell is trying to spin the situation in terms of “wait a minute, I’ve just stepped into the role and we’re not even sure we want Hogan, and definitely not at that price” in an effort to get a better deal.

Wouldnt be the first time this sort of thing has happened - wait until a player is now mentally committed to leaving, then move the goalposts.

Langdon is an Eagles man and just doesn’t want his cross town rivals to have any success or steal any of the Eagles’ current limelight. And he’s a bit of a [censored] to boot. Wouldn’t put stock in anything he says.

31 minutes ago, wizardinoz said:

He hasn't left yet. Karl Langdon has stated he will bet his house on it that Jesse stays at the MFC.

This is the same Karl Langdon that had this to say in 2016 about Hogan after his 2017 contract expired

‘I’ve got no doubt that Jesse Hogan’s next contract will be back in Perth,’ Langdon told 3AW Football.

If you're a loud mouth then I guess you always need to find something to say...

Edited September 30, 20186 yr by Graeme Yeats' Mullet

16 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

Either Langdon is talking utter crap, or Bell is trying to spin the situation in terms of “wait a minute, I’ve just stepped into the role and we’re not even sure we want Hogan, and definitely not at that price” in an effort to get a better deal.

Wouldnt be the first time this sort of thing has happened - wait until a player is now mentally committed to leaving, then move the goalposts.

why cant we have both.....( cue the meme) 

seriously... I said much earlier that Bell coming onboard might very likely change the complexion of this. I dont think it will however alter the outcome..( much ) 

21 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Need to do a strong deal

i wanted hogan to stay but now must get in two top 10 picks. 

Yes and for two picks this year. One for May and the other to float as trade bait or a ready to go outside runner.

Also take a look at Jordan Clark.

massive up side 

3 hours ago, Adzman said:

If you would like an interesting perspective on this trade, have a look at what they are saying at Dockerland about the potential deal.

Quite a large number wed to the idea of of waiting until free agency and getting him for nothing next year, or that he is only worth pick 5 if they get a second round pick back, or just worth a first rounder straight up. Some posters see his value, and are salivating.

Either way, interesting reading from their perspective. Clearly some think that key forwards must grow on trees.......

https://www.dockerland.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=topic&catid=1&Itemid=251&id=492595

 

This is my favourite one though, not wanting to trade their first rounder because they want to add a star midfielder...in Hutchings ?

 

"Correct Walba we need a capable midfield to service quality forwards.

Our pick 4 for Hutchings."

1 hour ago, EnterTheDragon said:

Posted this in the May thread but also relevant here:

For posters obsessed with draft picks here is a list of pick 10’s selected at the AFL draft since 2010.

Daniel Gorringe, Liam Sumner, Troy Menzel, Nathan Freeman, Nakia Cockatoo, Harry McKay, Jack Bowes, Lochie O’Brien.

 Wow what a veritable cavalcade of superstars. The first 4 names there I’m pretty sure have all already been delisted!

 

It is not really about a particular pick number,  but rather how you use it. Of your group Cockatoo, Bowes and McKay are good players and I don’t know much about O’Brien. 

There are successes and failures with every pick. Higher picks just improve your chances as the field is greater. 

I keep hearing that there are around 20 "name players" potentially on the move this trading season.

That number may cause the going rates to drop simply because there are less draft picks floating in the trade system that clubs are willing to give up. (Badly expressed but think about it.)

Trading season will be very complicated if they are trying to get away 20 "name deals". It usually around 3-4. Admittedly a couple of the 20 are FA's that don't of themselves require trades but on trading of the draft picks may.

1 hour ago, EnterTheDragon said:

Posted this in the May thread but also relevant here:

For posters obsessed with draft picks here is a list of pick 10’s selected at the AFL draft since 2010.

Daniel Gorringe, Liam Sumner, Troy Menzel, Nathan Freeman, Nakia Cockatoo, Harry McKay, Jack Bowes, Lochie O’Brien.

 Wow what a veritable cavalcade of superstars. The first 4 names there I’m pretty sure have all already been delisted!

 

It's not the specific pick, it's the access to the pool of players. 

The following 'superstars' were taken between 10 and 20 since 2010:

Tom Lynch (11), Brodie Smith (14), Isaac Smith (19), Toby Greene (11), Sam Doherty (12), Devon Smith (14), Brodie Grundy (19), Patrick Cripps (12), Lachie Weller (13), Jake Lever (14), Charlie Curnow (12), Daniel Rioli (15), Tom Doedee (17) Jade Gresham(18), Ryan Burton (19).

That just in the 10-20 range and there are plenty more All Australian/ BnF winners outside of that range.  This of course doesn't include players that would easily be in our starting 18. 

Draft picks are generally overrated, but there is some genuine A Grade talent available at pick 10, and we're looking at have 2 picks between 6 and 10.  

I’m sad to see him go because I love him as a player, but if he was always going home at some stage, he’s doing us a massive favour by doing it now as the club is strong enough now to not fall apart from this and he’s at peak value. We could potentially end up with 3 new best 22 players out of this. 

2 minutes ago, Pipefitter said:

I’m sad to see him go because I love him as a player, but if he was always going home at some stage, he’s doing us a massive favour by doing it now as the club is strong enough now to not fall apart from this and he’s at peak value. We could potentially end up with 3 new best 22 players out of this. 

Yes,  from adversity comes opportunity.   Turning a negative into a positive and all that.

We can look at it another way ... we are selling an asset that creates collateral which can be spent on other investments. 

I wonder if we'll hear anything through the best and fairest tomorrow night.  If Hogan has decided to leave, will he still go?  I get the feeling the players would be more than happy to have him there, especially the way Jones spoke about it, but he might feel uncomfortable going along to the night.

Either way, you would think we would hear something more concrete about it in the next 48 hours.  Perhaps he announces a new 5 year deal with Melbourne tomorrow night at the B&F??

34 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

It's not the specific pick, it's the access to the pool of players. 

The following 'superstars' were taken between 10 and 20 since 2010:

Tom Lynch (11), Brodie Smith (14), Isaac Smith (19), Toby Greene (11), Sam Doherty (12), Devon Smith (14), Brodie Grundy (19), Patrick Cripps (12), Lachie Weller (13), Jake Lever (14), Charlie Curnow (12), Daniel Rioli (15), Tom Doedee (17) Jade Gresham(18), Ryan Burton (19).

That just in the 10-20 range and there are plenty more All Australian/ BnF winners outside of that range.  This of course doesn't include players that would easily be in our starting 18. 

Draft picks are generally overrated, but there is some genuine A Grade talent available at pick 10, and we're looking at have 2 picks between 6 and 10.  

Agreed. Good logic. Yes, at any one pick it doesnt look to great but if you look at who you can pick then I trust Jason Taylor to get it right.

I'd be very surprised if Jesse wasn't at the Bluey, irrespective of any events ensuing.

23 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I wonder if we'll hear anything through the best and fairest tomorrow night.  If Hogan has decided to leave, will he still go?  I get the feeling the players would be more than happy to have him there, especially the way Jones spoke about it, but he might feel uncomfortable going along to the night.

Either way, you would think we would hear something more concrete about it in the next 48 hours.  Perhaps he announces a new 5 year deal with Melbourne tomorrow night at the B&F??

why would he feel or be made to feel uncomfortable.

Players come and go at all clubs every year.

It's the way