Farewell Jesse Hogan

[dl4e 5,644]

Just now, Demons1858 said:

The danger in being consistently pragmatic and making guarantees to players, is that clubs know you will give in somewhat and therefore negotiate with you on that basis. With the Lever trade and other lesser trades, clubs now know our trading philosophy I'm not sure longer term if it won't hurt us

Yes and this is why I would telling Freo to get s$%^#$%. Better to be stubborn for once and if it means a little less in 12 months for 1 player so be it. We have been taken advantage of too often.

[dl4e 5,644]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Melbourne will trade pick 5 for May.

I'm looking forward to the meltdowns.

I am avoiding future meltdowns over this because I am having one now.

[John Demonic 4,873]

6 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Yes and this is why I would telling Freo to get s$%^#$%. Better to be stubborn for once and if it means a little less in 12 months for 1 player so be it. We have been taken advantage of too often.

Unfortunately the good faith philosophy doesn't work with teams with victim complexes and hatred of victorian clubs. But conversely it also might mean that we may strike a good deal with Gold Coast with a later pick like 8 or 11 for Steven may as they seem to have been accomodating in the past.

Edited October 11, 2018 by johndemonic

[Demons1858 1,663]

Is it too sensitive for some supporters to bring up the fact that if we held firmer with the Lever trade, we would be able to get May without needing the picks from Freo

[Axis of Bob 10,365]

8 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

The danger in being consistently pragmatic and making guarantees to players, is that clubs know you will give in somewhat and therefore negotiate with you on that basis. With the Lever trade and other lesser trades, clubs now know our trading philosophy I'm not sure longer term if it won't hurt us

We may pay slightly more, but the quality of player willing to come to us will be much higher. Players know that we will do the deal so they will choose us over other teams. 

This could well be what has happened with Steven May, as he'd be more likely to choose us over Collingwood knowing that if he commits to us then his future is secured.

The alternative is having slightly better draft picks ... but players win games, not draft picks. Certainly not in our current situation.

[Bossdog 2,002]

I don't think I have seen anywhere that Hogan or May have requested a trade.   So all these arguements over draft picks and trade senarios are just p*** and wind until that happens.

I don't listen to any of the trade news.

I hate trade week(s)   It's just a cattle market with no respect for club or player.

See you when it's completed.

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,386]

29 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Damn we’re just going to have to keep Hogan.

It'll be an awkward 2019, but not a bad walk-away position 

[ManDee 7,093]

1 minute ago, Demons1858 said:

Is it too sensitive for some supporters to bring up the fact that if we held firmer with the Lever trade, we would be able to get May without needing the picks from Freo

So are you saying GCS would take pick 16 for May? Don't let the facts get in the way. 

[demoniac 1,243]

If Suns hold May for another season and then leaves as a free agent they know they'll get a pick after their first selection so Pick 2 or close given they must be favourites for wooden spoon.

If we get Pick 5 that may be close enough to get a yes.

Pick 10 I'd struggle to accept if I was the Suns. Just does not make business sense.

[Gator 16,921]

The view that the club should wait one more year for May and get him for free doesn't wash with me.

Firstly, there's no guarantee he'll still want the Dees in a year's time.  Things change.

Secondly, I want to win the flag in 2019.  We're right in the window to win and May improves our chances.

Improve the list.  Improve the balance of the best 22.  And do it now.

[Ethan Tremblay 28,535]

Just now, demoniac said:

If Suns hold May for another season and then leaves as a free agent they know they'll get a pick after their first selection so Pick 2 or close given they must be favourites for wooden spoon.

If we get Pick 5 that may be close enough to get a yes.

Pick 10 I'd struggle to accept if I was the Suns. Just does not make business sense.

May will be 28 by the start of that season. The pick the Suns will receive as compensation is also determined by contract length. First round compensation is far from guaranteed. 

[Demons1858 1,663]

4 minutes ago, ManDee said:

So are you saying GCS would take pick 16 for May? Don't let the facts get in the way. 

No! But we would be able to use that to bundle up the right package as collateral. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Demons1858

[old dee 22,982]

1 minute ago, ProDee said:

The view that the club should wait one more year for May and get him for free doesn't wash with me.

Firstly, there's no guarantee he'll still want the Dees in a year's time.  Things change.

Secondly, I want to win the flag in 2019.  We're right in the window to win and May improves our chances.

Improve the list.  Improve the balance of the best 22.  And do it now.

You have my vote, create your own luck go for it Dees!

[Johnny Karate 559]

2 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

The danger in being consistently pragmatic and making guarantees to players, is that clubs know you will give in somewhat and therefore negotiate with you on that basis. With the Lever trade and other lesser trades, clubs now know our trading philosophy I'm not sure longer term if it won't hurt us

It’s unfortunate that Lever did his knee but I think time will prove it was a good deal. I like to think goodwill goes a long way. If we become infamous at playing ‘hardball’ it could make us a poor club. Let’s say a well known player comes out of contract and says to their manager: “Melbourne look a team on the rise, I’d love to look at joining them.” The manager may say “Look, they are a good team but Steve May who’s also my client wanted to go there last year. The Dees said all the right things but when push came to shove they couldn’t get it done because they rated their potential draft picks higher. It’s my professional opinion that they’re in a window and shouldn’t do that. Steve was unhappy and will be accepting Collingwood’s fa offer this year. I’ll make some calls to clubs other than Melbourne and see what’s around ok?”

 

Of course the above scenario is purely based on my suspicions about how these discussions may play out. However, I wouldn’t think that it is an impossible proposition. I think the way we currently operate is part of the reason players choose us because they know we don’t bs and will get it done.

I like the way our team has specifically targeted players, ignored the talking head tut tutting about ‘giving up too much’ and looked at obtaining the net gain in trade period.

[olisik 4,060]

2 minutes ago, demoniac said:

If Suns hold May for another season and then leaves as a free agent they know they'll get a pick after their first selection so Pick 2 or close given they must be favourites for wooden spoon.

If we get Pick 5 that may be close enough to get a yes.

Pick 10 I'd struggle to accept if I was the Suns. Just does not make business sense.

On the other hand if we wait a year, we can get him as a FA without giving up any picks.

[faultydet 7,593]

Agree with ProDee above, and cannot understand why anyone on this board would want to delay adding the final pieces of a premiership pie when our window has just opened.

 

Makes no sense at all.

[Dee tention 611]

Pick 5 has to be involved! If it isn’t. I declare a fail on MFC...

Minimum is 5 & 11.... 

[ManDee 7,093]

5 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

No but we would be able to use that to bundle up the right package as collatoral

So it's not a fact but speculation on your behalf.

 

Edit:- We would have tips 16 -36 -46 yes that would get it done, I think not.

Edited October 11, 2018 by ManDee

[Uncle Fester 2,840]

Just now, Dee tention said:

Pick 5 has to be involved! If it isn’t. I declare a fail on MFC...

Minimum is 5 & 11.... 

5 and their 1st next year or GTFO.

 

I don't rate May btw, so if that falls over so be it. 

[Robbie57 1,996]

I remain of the view Hogan is a special talent. The only reason he would be in play is because we asked him to sign for 4 more years and his agent has said no wants to keep options open. He is younger and far more talented than May. We should only be prepared to take an offer that is too good to refuse. 50 goal plus a season players are too hard to come by.  Everyone gets swept up in the trade fiasco where picks are simply speculative,Hogan is not speculative if fit. I hope he stays. 

[DSP 1,488]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Fester said:

5 and their 1st next year or GTFO.

 

I don't rate May btw, so if that falls over so be it. 

Thet have already on traded a 2019 pick i believe.

[Demons1858 1,663]

1 minute ago, ManDee said:

So it's not a fact but speculation on your behalf.

Haven't you been watching the trades so far. It's not rocket science. Clubs are trading picks for picks to jostle to a position that allows them to get the player they are targeting.

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,386]

I've been saying, since pre the 100 page mark, that I think (IMO) the MFC is pushing the Hogan trade (and there is some unstated reasons underlying this - which I don't know)

At the same time we are a motivated buyer for May, competing against both Coll, and the 2019 fall back position of GCS

That being said we are likely to receive unders for Hogan and pay overs for May - and infuriate a lot of DL posters

[John Demonic 4,873]

9 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Agree with ProDee above, and cannot understand why anyone on this board would want to delay adding the final pieces of a premiership pie when our window has just opened.

Makes no sense at all.

The key to it making sense is understanding that you left 'what might be' out of your sentence. It's all speculative right now isn't it?

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by johndemonic

[ManDee 7,093]

Just now, Demons1858 said:

Haven't you been watching the trades so far. It's not rocket science. Clubs are trading picks for picks to jostle to a position that allows them to get the player they are targeting.

OK master trader tell me how if we didn't trade this years first for Lever we could do the deal for May without trading Hogan.