Daniel Ward named for betting on matches

[Pinball Wizard 315]

Yeh, I don't actually disagree that he did not match fix. What I'm saying is it is a fine line before it can have that appearance. Hypothetically, Ward could have had 50K on the game and gone out and belted Pavlich, Carr (who deserves it, mind you!) and Sandilands - maybe it would be worth it? AFL players have all sorts of insider knowledge, and I'm sorry, but any professional has to know that betting on your own team is over the line.

That could well be one of the reasons why the AFL doesn't allow its players to bet on its games but that's still a far cry from match fixing which has connotations of corruption.

I don't believe that Goodwin and Ward will get any more than a small to medium level fine which the other two will probably be placed on bonds.

Heaven help the next person who hets caught though!

[Demon Disciple 12,127]

I was reading an article about this fiasco in 'The Age'. They hit the nail right on the head. There are 2 guys that bet less than $10 on another team not playing against them (Hale and the Sydney bloke), they get named and shamed, whilst there are 3 players who have been caught doing drugs twice and are kept protected under the AFL's code of conduct.

Obviously what Wardy did was a serious lack of judgement (especially given the fact he bet on a match his team was involved in - but not against his own team which is i suppose a positive if you can call it that)

But how can the AFL be serious about giving a possible $100K fine and an indefinite sentence, when they are protecting 3 player's from being named and refuse to name the player's that have been caught dealing with drugs TWICE and yet release names for what i consider is a far less serious offence?

This comparison really puts it all into context and shows up the AFL big time.

[deestroy08 0]

Amen to all of that Demon Disciple. I was pretty disappointed to hear that Ward was involved. He's one of the older players at the club and regardless of the fact that he is not in the official leadership group, he still has an unwritten responsibility to be a role model to the younger players. I hope he's at Family Day doing everything he can to 'redeem' himself from what was, as Demon Disciple said, a serious lack of judgement.

[True Believer 1]

Amen to all of that Demon Disciple. I was pretty disappointed to hear that Ward was involved. He's one of the older players at the club and regardless of the fact that he is not in the official leadership group, he still has an unwritten responsibility to be a role model to the younger players. I hope he's at Family Day doing everything he can to 'redeem' himself from what was, as Demon Disciple said, a serious lack of judgement.

I am very disappointed in Daniel

DO THE CRIME....PAY THE FINE.

[Choko 493]

I'm not sure that using recreational drugs out of competition is worse than gambling on games in which you're a player. I reckon it's a 50/50. I think it's a disgrace that the Sydney youngster was named. I do agree with Scoop that there are bigger biases and imbalances than this, but unfortunately, it's not really the point.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

I'm not sure that using recreational drugs out of competition is worse than gambling on games in which you're a player. I reckon it's a 50/50.

You can't compare gambling to drug- taking. For one, drugs are illegal, no matter who you are.

But regardless, the rule are there for a reason, and the AFL is absolutely right to forbid this sort of gambling. Ward was silly to get involved, and worse, put a dent in the club's reputation.

[Deeman 1,497]

You can't compare gambling to drug- taking. For one, drugs are illegal, no matter who you are.

But regardless, the rule are there for a reason, and the AFL is absolutely right to forbid this sort of gambling. Ward was silly to get involved, and worse, put a dent in the club's reputation.

They said on the 9 news that Ward had apologised to the playing group this morning. Apparently didn't go to the family day though.

[WonnaJurah 5]

said one was on the freo dees final match last year which we lost

i have the number 10 on my jumper and he is letting the number down

[Elwood 3184 1,301]

While players betting on AFL matches is clearly wrong, surely there is another issue involving match-fixing that crops up every year.

The AFL system rewards winning less than a certain amount of games. How many times do we see teams in the bottom few spots on the ladder play all their youngsters and send their best players in for early surgery with a few rounds to go in the season? There are incentives to drop such games to obtain a higher and/or priority draft pick and the incentives are there for top level management rather than one player as is the case with betting.

I am not saying that the AFL shouldn't take this gambling issue seriously. But it is a little hypocritical to wholeheartedly promote "integrity" when there are things such as the draft system and fixture that compromise the game's integrity each year.

The AFL has a rule that says:-

(B) A person must not, directly or indirectly, participate or engage in or assist any other person, corporation or entity to engage in the following conduct:

[...]

(iii) contrive or attempt to contrive the result of a Match in exchange for any bribe, benefit or reward;

That being the case then we should investigate a few of the clubs that failed to play their best sides when a priority draft pick was in the offing. I remember the Bullies dopping Croft for the last game of the season after he kicked 5 goals.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,833]

said one was on the freo dees final match last year which we lost

I'm tipping he put money against us when he worked out Sandilands would dominate that match.

I wonder if the AFL would actually go to the exent of banning Ward from playing?

[Jaded No More 68,915]

I wonder if the AFL would actually go to the exent of banning Ward from playing?

I don't think so.

Players can be caught taking drugs, or have to appear in court for serious offences, and they don't get banned.

The AFL would just prove to us what a hypocritical body it is, if it banned players for gambling (which is, after all, not an illegal activity in itself), and nothing else.

I hope the club punishes Ward, and more importantly, makes him seek the help he needs to quit gambling all together.

For a starter, he shouldn't play in the NAB Cup. This may not seem like a big punishment, but for a 30 year old guy who is not a regular in our 22, this is a big blow.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

If he tipped against us in that final and actually won a few bucks, then we're not going to hear the end of it. What kind of message would that send to the playing group and the league at large about how seriously he takes his footy? When your own players are making money off the team's failure there's something very wrong. That's all assuming the above scenario is in fact correct.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

If he tipped against us in that final and actually won a few bucks, then we're not going to hear the end of it. What kind of message would that send to the playing group and the league at large about how seriously he takes his footy? When your own players are making money off the team's failure there's something very wrong. That's all assuming the above scenario is in fact correct.

He put money on us winning, both times.

He lost, both times.

Get the hint Wardy... you're bad luck!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Ta, J.

[DemonDave 1,089]

They said on the 9 news that Ward had apologised to the playing group this morning. Apparently didn't go to the family day though.

I was at Family Day, and the guernsey presentations skipped from Number 8 straight through to Number 11 (With Neita being presented last as Captain). No surprise really that he was a no-show, but no mention was made of his absence disappointingly...

[Hards 2]

As I said to someone when I heard he was involved... "Anyone stupid enough to bet on Melbourne...."

He won't get suspended, he may get fined. I don't think these four will get the book thrown at them, but the next one will definately get hammered.

If he or any player bets against his own team, you get rid of him straight away.

[rusty_kingswood 0]

"Match Fixing" as some put it is close to impossible in the AFL.

There are far too many variables and uncertainties. As I agree that Wardy should have stayed right away from this, I hardly find this a serious offence. For god sake if the idiot hadn’t had put the account in his own name, we would be talking about Melbourne smashing the Hawks in a few days instead of something so trivial.

I quite like the comment by Deesrock, comparing drugs to gambling-in terms of what he would prefer his kids to do, and he is spot on. We have to understand the footy players are human, and they are gonna stuff up. Sometimes more than others. But if we are talking about 'role models' well yes I would prefer them put a bet on a game than put coke up there nose and worse.

Before I leave my rant- a warning to future AFL players who like a flutter...don’t put the bloody account in your name. Try a friends or even a fake one.

GO DEES!!!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

As far as this match fixing thing goes, I reckon an individual cannot fix a match. If 6 or more senior players were all in cahoots then yes, perhaps that's possible. But even the best players in histoy couldn't stop the other 21 guys from trying. Also, if you're tanking a match, your coach will just bench you. Simple.

[deanox 9,922]

i spose the issue is that you may not tank the match yourself but you may know that the opposition plan on it, or you may talk to them about it, or you may know how your side is travelling ie players fully fit or carying injuries, you may know the make up of the side. a number of factors that could influence the average punter having a bet but they dont know. as a player you have inside information.

i dont think he should be sacked but he is bloody stupid. the club should be ensuring this is the last time it happens.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Match fixing can indeed be achieved by one person either acting directly or leading the behaviour of teammates or members of the opposition.

1. A coach can knowingly and delberately make or not make certain moves before/ during a game which can crucify a team's chances with the view of creating a direct or indirect gain for himself and/or associates.

2. A player/coach/captain can act a Salim Malik/ Hans Cronje and actively and covertly solicit and entice players from their own or other sides to cook the play.

3. An umpire can influence/change the outcome of a game with cooked decisions.

Given the closeness of the past two grand finals, how would any of the above situations have potentially changed the outcome? Quite easily.

" "Match Fixing" as some put it is close to impossible in the AFL. "

I am quite sure the ICC had the same naive view and havent they done well.

BTW, whether its drugs or gambling, any addictive behaviour is both destructive on the individual, their family and friends and their the Club and undermines the integrity of the competition.

Match fixing like drugs in sport not only destroys and hopefully public humiliates the user/abuser but undermines every other honest performance.

As for Daniel Ward, he was stupid, he's admitted to a problem and he is working with the Club to fix it. On this occassion he should be fined. As a fringe player at MFC he next offense is out the door.

[deesrock 0]

Totally agree that both gambling and drug addiction are not too good on the individual concerned, or indeed, on their loved ones........however, in the cases involving the players whose bets were $10.00, that hardly amounts to a gambling "addiction" which is what is been implied by so many.

It is a disgrace that player's names have been leaked on this.

One more thing - rusty kingswood - I am a girl but thanks for the comments on my comments.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

There is two issues involved with the gambling:

1. The issue of possible addiction of the consequences thereto.

2. The wider issue of actual and perceived conflicts of interests created by a player/official benefitting outrside his Club contract on terms and conditions which are not consistent with his Club obligations.

You are right the $10 bets are of them selves not an issue but may be the tip of the iceberg in relation to point 2. How does the AFL know that AFL players are not gambling on AFL under aliases or third parties and how would they ever tell?

[old55 23,576]

You don't have to bet against your team to match fix. You could tank to improve your odds and then bet on your team to win.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1. A coach can knowingly and delberately make or not make certain moves before/ during a game which can crucify a team's chances with the view of creating a direct or indirect gain for himself and/or associates.

2. A player/coach/captain can act a Salim Malik/ Hans Cronje and actively and covertly solicit and entice players from their own or other sides to cook the play.

3. An umpire can influence/change the outcome of a game with cooked decisions.

Like I said, a player acting alone in just 120 minutes of footy couldn't possibly effect the game THAT much that he can be assured a loss. At most all he can do is make sure his team are without their 22nd player. Some would argue this is enough to tip the scales in the oppositions' favour. Certainly in the GF this could quite possibly be the case.

1. Agreed, but only works in the case of coaches. Were it a coach, say Thompson or Pagan, who'd put more than 10 bucks on a game I'd suggest we'd be hearing a LOT more. But it's players. Also, as suggested before, on 'ology perhaps, you could argue that tanking games at the end of the season by playing youth is precisely the same thing. Legal match fixing if you will.

2. Actively converting a number of players? Yes. You'd think 3-6 players woud be enough to almost completely disarm an AFL team against any willing opposition currently going around, even the Blues. But one guy keeping his dishonesty a secret from his team-mates. No. Is there any one player who is THAT good that without him their team doesn't stand a chance? WC - Judd; Sydney - Hall, Goodes; WB - West, Johnson; Freo - Pav, Sandilands? My feeling is that if you take the Pavlich out of Freo, they are a far less dangerous side, but you couldn't possibly be guaranteed a loss by removing him from their lineup. The same goes for all players, I believe.

3. They don't need to cook decisions. If an umpire tanked a game I for one would be none the wiser. In fact I'd probably applaud his decisions, as they may improve on the current status quo.

Yes, perhaps the ICC were naive. But he was caught. There's no reason to suggest a GROUP of players in the AFL would find it any easier than Hansje. I'd suggest that six guys attempting a fix would be far more conspicuous than one.

You are right the $10 bets are of them selves not an issue but may be the tip of the iceberg in relation to point 2. How does the AFL know that AFL players are not gambling on AFL under aliases or third parties and how would they ever tell?

So where do they/we aim the penalty. A slap on the wrist in the hundreds of dollars, just to send a message to Hale and Jack, and the maximum of 5 grand for the other 2? Do we make an example of both Goodwin and Ward? Part of me wants to, the other part says the league doesn't have the guts to ping one of its stars in any lasting way. If this star was to miss matches you can bet there'd be uproar. And then there's Goodwin to consider... :D

[old55 23,576]

And then there's Goodwin to consider... :D

How about Goodwin and Ward are suspended from Melbourne v Adelaide matches - that sounds fair to me.