On 22/07/2018 at 21:14, MSFebey said:

Fox highlighted some footage of Jones’ poor application and jogging in the final minute yesterday morning, it looked terrible. And I think Lewis was the other one 

Cooked. Both of them.

  On 23/07/2018 at 01:25, praha said:

Cooked. Both of them.

I do think the club needs to seriously and carefully consider replacing our older slow players with younger veterans from successful clubs, it's tricky, but for all of Lewis' cheap possessions it's becoming a liability. His final chase in the last minute was pathetic, as David King pointed out this morning. Keep him on as an assistant.

I’m not pointing the finger at Jonesy! There were a lot of points in the game individuals and the team could have done better...

3:56 to go in the last when Hawkins snapped that goal summed up the game for me.

The Jones attempted smother was pretty ordinary I thought! Half hearted and no where near desperate enough!

Some of our 1% ers and lack to think it through (Petracca torp and willingness to hand the ball back inside our F50 by scoring a point) are killing us...

From 2:45

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2018-07-23/exclusive-vision-dees-disaster-dissected

  On 23/07/2018 at 00:39, drysdale demon said:

Better stick to golf as it is obvious you know nothing about football.

Puh-lease. I cheered him on Satuday night when he handballed to a chest.

Couldn't believe it.

Go back to watching the Golden Girls.

  On 22/07/2018 at 22:27, Rusty Nails said:

Jones wasn't the reason we lost on Sat.    Easily in our top 5 on the night and top 10 for the season.

Has he lost half a yard this season and that's impacting his game generally? Probably.  Have some of the other younger mids passed him along the way and become more dangerous and damaging.  Yup.  But that's a good thing and part of our evolution surely? Something Jones would be more than pleased to see I'm sure.  

Does he bomb too often?  Yes.  Can he improve his kicking and start hitting up more leads coming inside 50 this late in his career?  Probably not at this point.

Is he giving off too many suicide handballs vs previously?  Might also be a case of the drop in speed and feeling more heat in congestion more often.

So what to do?  Time to find one of our greatest clubman and most courageous co-captain a new role and spend less time through the mid field and from what I've witnessed this is already happening...gradually. 

Where to from here?  IMHO I would be sending him to a HF role with occasional relief through the middle for genuine insiders like Viney & Clarry when being rested.  But minority of the time mid, majority HF.

One thing a coach loves is a player that's going to be fully committed every time he runs out and prepare as a top pro every time.  Yes the Jones boy has limitations and a number of flaws but he more than makes up for it overall.  Still plenty of good football left but will need to find a niche that involves less time through midfield.  And a significant change this late in career wouldn't be easy.

He's one of the greatest stories for this club in the last decade and one of the few shining lights during what was a very gloomy period.

The Jones boy might not be A grade but he IS the glue that has held this club together on the field for arguably a decade now.

Just as he has lifted this club from the doldrums with many years of sweat, max effort and toil, it's time we all get behind him folks and lift him up on our shoulders to greater heights!

Stick fat guys.

Go the mighty Demons!

HF..... He can't get his feet off the ground.

Love him but time for a coaching role.

For all you keyboard Jones knockers......do yourselves a favour & listen to a podcast called Captain’s Call....AFL Players Association (Nathan Jones).  It is simply “unbelievable “.  What it bought home to me was .......I read the vitriol & hand-wringing that goes here on after a loss....but guess what...we head off to work or whatever else on Monday & hopefully move on.  He lives & breathes the club seven days a week & has done so since he was 18.  For us it’s a game ....for him it’s his job.   I challenge anyone who listens to that to come back on here & dismiss his contribution to our club in such a cavalier fashion.  As far as I’m concerned....he picks his time to move on.

  On 23/07/2018 at 11:56, gOLLy said:

Puh-lease. I cheered him on Satuday night when he handballed to a chest.

Couldn't believe it.

Go back to watching the Golden Girls.

I am watching it right now Bea

  On 23/07/2018 at 13:08, Deestar9 said:

For all you keyboard Jones knockers......do yourselves a favour & listen to a podcast called Captain’s Call....AFL Players Association (Nathan Jones).  It is simply “unbelievable “.  What it bought home to me was .......I read the vitriol & hand-wringing that goes here on after a loss....but guess what...we head off to work or whatever else on Monday & hopefully move on.  He lives & breathes the club seven days a week & has done so since he was 18.  For us it’s a game ....for him it’s his job.   I challenge anyone who listens to that to come back on here & dismiss his contribution to our club in such a cavalier fashion.  As far as I’m concerned....he picks his time to move on.

Yet watch his final 2 minutes v Cats and it confirms my theory, poor leader. Nobody on this forum is knocking his dedication, loyalty or commitment to the club, some of you really need to get this through your heads. His leadership on field is poor, goes missing when needed. Him and Lewis were in our forward half from memory when the kick went to the Irishman. 

  On 23/07/2018 at 22:19, MSFebey said:

Yet watch his final 2 minutes v Cats and it confirms my theory, poor leader. Nobody on this forum is knocking his dedication, loyalty or commitment to the club, some of you really need to get this through your heads. His leadership on field is poor, goes missing when needed. Him and Lewis were in our forward half from memory when the kick went to the Irishman. 

It's actually a worry. Wiser heads would have ensured one or other was minding the shop...just in case. That neither did is poor reflection on both...and speaks volumes about communication out on the field. 

An epic leadership fail...at the worst possible time.

Jesus we sure do like to eat our own..

Haven't bothered to go through all the [censored] pages but has anyone mentioned his knee was heavily strapped on the weekend? So hes obviously carrying an injury which meant he was barely in the center circle and had to play an outside role. 

Yet still came away with 27 disposals and kicked a crucial goal when needed.

I saw his hit on Selwood as him trying to stamp his leadership on the game and inspire his teammates.

Right now hes still the best capatin we've got. And please do not say Jack Viney, because right now im still filthy on his stubbornness and arrogance that he thinks hes bullet proof. If anything he needs the captaincy stripped off him and focus on his body alone.

Until someone puts their hand up then Jones is still number 1 leader in our side.

  On 23/07/2018 at 23:03, dazzledavey36 said:

Jesus we sure do like to eat our own..

Haven't bothered to go through all the [censored] pages but has anyone mentioned his knee was heavily strapped on the weekend? So hes obviously carrying an injury which meant he was barely in the center circle and had to play an outside role. 

Yet still came away with 27 disposals and kicked a crucial goal when needed.

I saw his hit on Selwood as him trying to stamp his leadership on the game and inspire his teammates.

Right now hes still the best capatin we've got. And please do not say Jack Viney, because right now im still filthy on his stubbornness and arrogance that he thinks hes bullet proof. If anything he needs the captaincy stripped off him and focus on his body alone.

Until someone puts their hand up then Jones is still number 1 leader in our side.

Hi DD, always appreciate your thoughts. A strapped knee doesnt stop a guy from leading, his chase and pressure on Menzel was pathetic. People get caught up with possessions with Jones and Lewis, most of them are cheapies. I'd argue that Gawn is a better leader than all of them, he seems to consistently stand up and wear his heart on his sleeve, I'd have him as captain next year with Lever VC after Vineys stubbornness. Anyway I'm going to refrain from this thread until next week lol, still [censored] off.

  On 23/07/2018 at 22:19, MSFebey said:

Yet watch his final 2 minutes v Cats and it confirms my theory, poor leader. Nobody on this forum is knocking his dedication, loyalty or commitment to the club, some of you really need to get this through your heads. His leadership on field is poor, goes missing when needed. Him and Lewis were in our forward half from memory when the kick went to the Irishman. 

I was more concerned about the team effort the twenty odd minutes before that as the team gave up a 29 point lead.....The next time I reply to one of your posts is when you say something remotely encouraging about the team .....so I guess it’s “goodbye’ 

  On 24/07/2018 at 11:35, Deestar9 said:

I was more concerned about the team effort the twenty odd minutes before that as the team gave up a 29 point lead.....The next time I reply to one of your posts is when you say something remotely encouraging about the team .....so I guess it’s “goodbye’ 

There has been plenty of instances where I encourage the team and players, as I did recently in the Petracca thread after being critical, stuck up for Omac, Jetta admiration, love for Clarry etc etc. I’m harder on the older players as I feel they’re the ones letting us down. It doesn’t phase me if you reply or not. I’m always searching for ways for our club to improve, whether it be recruits, positional changes or tactics. Apart from this year I spent my hard earned travelling to interstate games so don’t say I don’t care or support. I was there last year v WCE and also v Adel supporting and cheering, but I cannot stand Jones’ onfield leadership body language when the chips are down. Oh and I’ll say what I like, it’s my right.

Edited July 24, 20186 yr by MSFebey

  On 23/07/2018 at 12:01, gOLLy said:

HF..... He can't get his feet off the ground.

Love him but time for a coaching role.

Yes I hear what you're saying golly.  You do need some toe playing a HF role.  Not sure about retirement.  Let's hope not but who knows, I've heard a few stories of pro athletes who wake up one day and they realise everything's suddenly gone to pot and the game's gone past them. Jones would know where he is at here better than anyone I'm sure.  He may have just gone through a bad patch. His game against the Cats was at least more like the Jones we know.

  On 24/07/2018 at 21:12, Rusty Nails said:

Yes I hear what you're saying golly.  You do need some toe playing a HF role.  Not sure about retirement.  Let's hope not but who knows, I've heard a few stories of pro athletes who wake up one day and they realise everything's suddenly gone to pot and the game's gone past them. Jones would know where he is at here better than anyone I'm sure.  He may have just gone through a bad patch. His game against the Cats was at least more like the Jones we know.

A couple of weeks ago he told the media he has 5-6 years left....

I tell you what we are REALLY good at - picking out one piece of play that runs for 5 seconds and using it as some sort of proof to suit our arguments, especially on the negative side.

I recall Jones doing plenty during the game to lead the side, including a crucial goal in the third term to keep the momentum swinging out way.  I remember plenty of touches, tackles, seeing him run both ways etc. throughout the entire game.  

But no.  Let's focus on one piece of play that runs for mere seconds and smash the bloke for it and say he is past it, he isn't a leader etc.  

As @dazzledavey36 said, we are great at eating our own and picking out something tiny to use as a reason to pot the bloke.  It's disappointing, really.

  On 24/07/2018 at 21:12, Rusty Nails said:

Yes I hear what you're saying golly.  You do need some toe playing a HF role.  Not sure about retirement.  Let's hope not but who knows, I've heard a few stories of pro athletes who wake up one day and they realise everything's suddenly gone to pot and the game's gone past them. Jones would know where he is at here better than anyone I'm sure.  He may have just gone through a bad patch. His game against the Cats was at least more like the Jones we know.

This year, and certainly in the recent past, Jones has given some great performances of which leadership was one of those traits; his strength in this regard has been his undoubted ability to so often 'read the play', the intercept, run around and through opponents, so often demonstrating - to the myriad numbers of younger players across the MFC field in recent years - how to get the ball, how to progress the ball, how to demonstrate a desire for the ball. As his game has recently modified,  his ball delivery can be tenuous yet is so often very good in 'eyes up' roles; as his recovery from elements of the game has declined somewhat, his desire to clear the ball is still there but he has the notion that long clearances and bombs are his own best resort. This has been frustrating. He has been a stalwart of effort for the MFC. In his sunset role I can imagine him being a very useful HBFlanker with run from defensive territory and similarly, as a FwdFlanker in roles where 'leap' is of less importance. There are those younger players who might blend all the required skills better than Jones can, these days. There are very few who can demonstrate his endeavour for the Club, producing such impressive short, sharp outcomes onfield - even when these are less frequent than in the past. Perhaps a role from the bench might be more appropriate at this stage of his career.

  On 23/07/2018 at 23:11, MSFebey said:

Hi DD, always appreciate your thoughts. A strapped knee doesnt stop a guy from leading, his chase and pressure on Menzel was pathetic. People get caught up with possessions with Jones and Lewis, most of them are cheapies. I'd argue that Gawn is a better leader than all of them, he seems to consistently stand up and wear his heart on his sleeve, I'd have him as captain next year with Lever VC after Vineys stubbornness. Anyway I'm going to refrain from this thread until next week lol, still [censored] off.

I know it is not fair to knock Max after his last few years, but just looking at the Cats game it was not his best, which didn’t help us. 

Also as to leadership or quick thinking, which we don’t have a lot of, why didn’t Max just spit out the blood in his mouth or call the trainer on and rinse and then close his mouth. As the guys on the Couch said, you don’t go off for that in the last minute when you are 2 points up. It also appeared like Tom Mac alerted the umpire. Even if the umpire says blood rule you just wipe it away or close your mouth or call the trainer to rinse. The rule is flowing blood. It was in his mouth not flowing. Just dumb with disastrous consequences.

WTF is in their heads, it clearly isn’t smarts like Dangercheat. 

  On 25/07/2018 at 01:35, Redleg said:

I know it is not fair to knock Max after his last few years, but just looking at the Cats game it was not his best, which didn’t help us. 

Also as to leadership or quick thinking, which we don’t have a lot of, why didn’t Max just spit out the blood in his mouth or call the trainer on and rinse and then close his mouth. As the guys on the Couch said, you don’t go off for that in the last minute when you are 2 points up. It also appeared like Tom Mac alerted the umpire. Even if the umpire says blood rule you just wipe it away or close your mouth or call the trainer to rinse. The rule is flowing blood. It was in his mouth not flowing. Just dumb with disastrous consequences.

WTF is in their heads, it clearly isn’t smarts like Dangercheat. 

i thought the same at the time, red. good point.

and why were players trying to get the ball out of the pack on our fwd line instead of taking the tackle for another ballup?

Edited July 25, 20186 yr by daisycutter

  On 25/07/2018 at 01:35, Redleg said:

I know it is not fair to knock Max after his last few years, but just looking at the Cats game it was not his best, which didn’t help us. 

Also as to leadership or quick thinking, which we don’t have a lot of, why didn’t Max just spit out the blood in his mouth or call the trainer on and rinse and then close his mouth. As the guys on the Couch said, you don’t go off for that in the last minute when you are 2 points up. It also appeared like Tom Mac alerted the umpire. Even if the umpire says blood rule you just wipe it away or close your mouth or call the trainer to rinse. The rule is flowing blood. It was in his mouth not flowing. Just dumb with disastrous consequences.

WTF is in their heads, it clearly isn’t smarts like Dangercheat. 

You are correct, Gawn tried to avoid going off and then Tommy McDonald dobbed him in to the umpire and he was sent off with the blood rule, which I didn't realise until last night. You've got to laugh!

  On 25/07/2018 at 01:35, Redleg said:

I know it is not fair to knock Max after his last few years, but just looking at the Cats game it was not his best, which didn’t help us. 

Also as to leadership or quick thinking, which we don’t have a lot of, why didn’t Max just spit out the blood in his mouth or call the trainer on and rinse and then close his mouth. As the guys on the Couch said, you don’t go off for that in the last minute when you are 2 points up. It also appeared like Tom Mac alerted the umpire. Even if the umpire says blood rule you just wipe it away or close your mouth or call the trainer to rinse. The rule is flowing blood. It was in his mouth not flowing. Just dumb with disastrous consequences.

WTF is in their heads, it clearly isn’t smarts like Dangercheat. 

Agreed. 

Stage fright that last Quarter, when the heat was applied. 

Dangerfield exploited us perfectly and we walked right in

  On 25/07/2018 at 01:51, daisycutter said:

i thought the same at the time, red. good point.

and why were players trying to get the ball out of the pack on our fwd line instead of taking the tackle for another ballup?

There are times to sit-off and hunt the opposition with the ball.  To wait on them getting the ball, as you wear them like a wet-suit.

 

Times like that we want our best kicks a kick behind the play, waiting for any potential rebound out of our 50M.

The best kicks can then move the ball back in, with precision.

 

This should suit our press

  On 25/07/2018 at 01:51, daisycutter said:

i thought the same at the time, red. good point.

and why were players trying to get the ball out of the pack on our fwd line instead of taking the tackle for another ballup?

We've been bad for so long, it's taken until now to get to the stage where we have to worry about what to do in close finishes. Now that we seem to have fixed so many of our previous problems, we can concentrate on fine tuning various aspects of the game. 

It's classic Pareto's Law which states that 80% of anything takes 20% of effort (or time or money) while the remaining 20% takes 80% of the effort (or time or money). Or, to put it another way, we've been concentrating on the low hanging fruit such as fitness, basic skills and learning to play.

  On 25/07/2018 at 03:08, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

We've been bad for so long, it's taken until now to get to the stage where we have to worry about what to do in close finishes. Now that we seem to have fixed so many of our previous problems, we can concentrate on fine tuning various aspects of the game. 

It's classic Pareto's Law which states that 80% of anything takes 20% of effort (or time or money) while the remaining 20% takes 80% of the effort (or time or money). Or, to put it another way, we've been concentrating on the low hanging fruit such as fitness, basic skills and learning to play.

Fair call, but this stuff should have been front and center over last pre season, considering what took place in Round 23. 

As a club we seem to be always slow to react. 

We are still to nice at The MFC

5 weeks to make a mark. 

Edited July 25, 20186 yr by Sir Why You Little