POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 17

[dees189227 12,373]

So i missed the 2nd half. But read maxy dominated. So how good was he?

[Sydney Pennski 294]

2 hours ago, Demonland said:

Used to love these back in the day.

[Undeeterred 3,123]

1 hour ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Well that was an unusual game and one that might puzzle those analysts who figure they’ve got our game worked out.

Statistically, we had less disposals, less contested possessions, less clearances, less tackles and less inside 50s. These are areas where, during this season, we are usually in front of our opposition and yet today, we won by 50 points.

Anyone have an explanation?

Efficiency. We kicked 7 goals in 12 minutes, and it was a procession from Gawn to Oliver, Petracca or Brayshaw. 

On the disposal side, we were far more direct. Oliver kicked it. That's a big part of it.

On the down side, in the first half we struggled, Max's dominance wasn't captured by clearances, we couldn't stick many tackles, and let them muck around with lots of dinky possessions.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,179]

In addition to Gawn Oliver Brayshaw and Hogan's games I liked Spargos game. The kid is just a footy player, that goal he kicked to the city end was classic criminal, got front and centre and read the play beautifully.

[Robot Devil 1,895]

50 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

[snip]

Footy....it's really not that complicated.

But there’s a lot of money to be made pretending that it is. 

[Undeeterred 3,123]

14 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I took “OOTF” to be a freudian slip and LH meant “deliberate out of bounds” - obviously an OOTF is black and white and it wasn’t one of those as it bounced inside the line.

As for whether it was deliberate or not - I think it would have been pretty stiff to have been paid. I’ve never seen anyone do a kick that unco and mean it. I thought it was a pretty clear skill error.

Brayshaw does this stuff way too much - he actually got caught in two minds and so went to kick it, but went to pull the kick and got it wrong. Only knock on his game at the moment.

[Undeeterred 3,123]

9 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

If we had 'many' passengers in a 50 point win then I'd love to see it when there aren't any.  200 point win maybe?

It's just such a ridiculous comment to make. If you look at who you might target:

JKH had 10 tackles and 15 odd touches.

Vince wasn't great but didn't do buckets wrong. Only made one really glaring error, and killed some really dangerous balls coming in.

Jeffy didn't touch it much but kicked 2 and was involved in a few more

Frost had one absolutely idiotic Sam Frost special but was excellent other than that.

Hannan was, definitely, quiet, but put heaps of pressure on and was thereabouts mostly. A bit of luck and he'd have had 2-3 goals

I just can't think of anybody else SFebey might be talking about

[Moonshadow 17,675]

12 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Name them. I genuinely didn't see many. Hannan was quiet. Who else?

Wouldn't call them passengers but any means, but Jones, Salem, Hannan, Jeffy and Jetta had reasonably quiet games

[Undeeterred 3,123]

1 minute ago, Moonshadow said:

Wouldn't call them passengers but any means, but Jones, Salem, Hannan, Jeffy and Jetta had reasonably quiet games

Nev was quiet, you're right, and their small forwards did kick a few. And he has so many credits I'd never call him a passenger.

Salem was fantastic - he was clean and hard at it every time he went near it. 

Jones, yeah, you could argue he wasn't too damaging, but see Nev above.

[The Chazz 4,077]

34 minutes ago, DaisyDeeciple said:

take a look at the AFL highlights package, they put the Razor Ray low five on it. http://www.afl.com.au/video/2018-07-14/gus-and-razor-share-a-low-five 

So not on the full?

Thanks. 

[WERRIDEE 5,444]

Frost is a clanger king.

Kennedy Harris applied enough pressure to get another game.

Vince did his job.

Gawn, Clarry and Brayshaw are absolute stars.

No changes against the Cats even with Viney out.

[Demons11 6,915]

2 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Anyone know the situation with Viney's toe? How bad is it?

3-4 weeks.  Got told by someone at Melbourne that it’s very minor but they will be extremely cautious. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

13 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Frost is a clanger king.

Kennedy Harris applied enough pressure to get another game.

Vince did his job.

Gawn, Clarry and Brayshaw are absolute stars.

No changes against the Cats even with Viney out.

One of the worst games in terms of turnovers i've seen.  I just can't understand how Goody allows Frosty to do anything when he gets the ball other than run and handball to the nearest player running from behind or alongside or alternatively just kick long to a contest.  The other issue is his kicking, even when trying to kick to a man (or contest), he rarely manages to find one of our own or kick to our advantage.

Great closing speed, great at spoiling and occasional chop outs but at the moment he is almost an asset to the opposition once he gets ball in hand.

Coaches need to do some serious work in this area with team mates running around near him in support like Hibb and Nev if he remains in the squad.

Vince was ok but still only running on 2 cylinders IMO.  Similar to Hannan.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Rusty Nails

[SFebes 4,884]

47 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Name them. I genuinely didn't see many. Hannan was quiet. Who else?

I’m enjoying a night out with the family, but just quickly I thought Jones, Lewis, Vince, Hibberd, Garlett, Hannan, Petracca, Frost, Jetta were all off their game. Good to see your mate having another pot shot, can’t help himself as usual. Enjoy your weekend. Oh and if we played like we did in the last half, it would’ve been another potential 100+ win ??

Edited July 14, 2018 by SFebey

[titan_uranus 24,974]

There is a lot to be pleased with about today's performance.

At half time Macrae and Hunter were destroying us in the middle, we were being beaten in CPs and clearances and we couldn't get scoring chains going from anywhere. A couple of small positional changes in the third quarter were critical (Harmes to Macrae, Jones out onto a wing and Lewis to half-back, with a deeper FF starting at the bounce), and we turned the game on its head.

Interestingly, today we were much more efficient going inside 50 - scoring from 56% of our inside 50s compared to last week's 47%. And the Dogs got a lot of inside 50s against, but didn't score all the time (33% compared to Fremantle's 46% last week). These are complete reversals of the standard 2018 MFC. Much more efficient going inside 50 (this is in part due to the Dogs' defence being poor), and more importantly, much tighter in defence.

Gawn, Oliver and Brayshaw were all stunning and their third quarter propelled us. Also thought Salem was terrific. Fritsch is a gem, Spargo's got a bright future, and Garlett adds something that our forward line was definitely missing during the three losses.

I thought Lewis was good today. His kicking is getting worse unfortunately, but I thought his courage and running were much better today. However I just don't see what Vince adds to the side at all. Also thought Jones had a shocker, which didn't help our clearance numbers. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, CBDees said:

We don’t need to “make the eight” (as we are already in it)! We need to win every match and finish in the top 4!

I wish i had your optimism CB.  Just my view after having a good look at the ladder prediction thingy and the fact we have now lost 2 of our best in Lever and Jack.

[dl4e 5,851]

Why did we get on top in the 2nd half ? Firstly footscray were poor but importantly some of goodwins moves in the first half became obsolete. Hogan playing in thr centre square and down back was silliy. He is a FF. Tmac was used up the ground as well which is okay if he has to ruck a little but he should be at CHF. This happened after half time ( bookend stucteres ) and the rest of the game will fall into place. Oliver at FF won’t work except maybe late in the game when we are well infront. Beat girlong next week and I will start to raise my eyebrows.

[Coq au vin 755]

Jones was absolutely dreadful today. He was often standing away from the place where he should have been, and/or kicked it directly to the opposition. Looks like he’s playing injured.

[Coq au vin 755]

19 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

There is a lot to be pleased with about today's performance.

At half time Macrae and Hunter were destroying us in the middle, we were being beaten in CPs and clearances and we couldn't get scoring chains going from anywhere. A couple of small positional changes in the third quarter were critical (Harmes to Macrae, Jones out onto a wing and Lewis to half-back, with a deeper FF starting at the bounce), and we turned the game on its head.

Interestingly, today we were much more efficient going inside 50 - scoring from 56% of our inside 50s compared to last week's 47%. And the Dogs got a lot of inside 50s against, but didn't score all the time (33% compared to Fremantle's 46% last week). These are complete reversals of the standard 2018 MFC. Much more efficient going inside 50 (this is in part due to the Dogs' defence being poor), and more importantly, much tighter in defence.

Gawn, Oliver and Brayshaw were all stunning and their third quarter propelled us. Also thought Salem was terrific. Fritsch is a gem, Spargo's got a bright future, and Garlett adds something that our forward line was definitely missing during the three losses.

I thought Lewis was good today. His kicking is getting worse unfortunately, but I thought his courage and running were much better today. However I just don't see what Vince adds to the side at all. Also thought Jones had a shocker, which didn't help our clearance numbers. 

Did you notice he was standing on the lateral edge outside of the centre square quite often when the ball was bounced after a goal and was therefore not involved in the centre bounces?

Edited July 14, 2018 by President Dee Trump

[SFebes 4,884]

2 minutes ago, President Dee Trump said:

Jones was absolutely dreadful today. He was often standing away from the place where he should have been, and/or kicked it directly to the opposition. Looks like he’s playing injured.

And how bad is his defensive pressure and chasing, been like it for weeks 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

6 minutes ago, President Dee Trump said:

Jones was absolutely dreadful today. He was often standing away from the place where he should have been, and/or kicked it directly to the opposition. Looks like he’s playing injured.

In the second half I noticed he spent a lot of time on the wing running with Honeychurch. Not sure if that was a defensive move by Goody but it looked like it.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Dee Zephyr

[Dr. Gonzo 24,179]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

In addition to Gawn Oliver Brayshaw and Hogan's games I liked Spargos game. The kid is just a footy player, that goal he kicked to the city end was classic criminal, got front and centre and read the play beautifully.

That should read classic crumbing but I can't edit

[DaveyJones'sLocker 647]

What a load of [censored] the start was, harmes gets ridden in to the ground straight in the back , yet gets pinged for delieberate Salem applies the extract same tackle later in the game got done for in the back. I also seem to remember salem getting done twice in the saints game for the same thing. This soft in the back rule is driving me crazy I swear we seem to get pinged 2-3 times a game when it should be holding the ball.

[dees189227 12,373]

I do like it when Oliver goes forward at different times. Just adds something a bit different. Boy next weeks game is massive massive massive. 

[deanox 9,898]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

I agree with much of that although, in the first quarter in particular, the Doggies won clearances at the center bounces and at stoppages.  From about half way through the 2nd quarter we were able to curb their dominance and get on top in the center and ended up winning the clearances here.

The main area where we got back into the match though IMO was upping the contested work.  Doggies killed us in the first quarter and a half in this area (as well as the outside...but it started here) but we started turning it around much like the clearances (through middle) and eventually ended up matching them here.  Meaning we were able to compete at the contest more effectively and prevent the Doggies from getting as much of it on the outside as they were getting early on.

Also....

We controlled the tempo much more than we did of late instead of playing on almost every time we had it at break neck speed only to turn it over by kicking (under pressure) to an out numbered player and seeing a quick turnover and the ball come back over our heads for an easy score.  This happened a few times in first half, better handled in the 2nd.

We out marked them in all facets, uncontested,  contested (Demons 16 v Doggies 11) and forward fifty (12 v 9).  In total 102 v 70.     32 extra marks is a massive differential (that's 8 every quarter!).

We were also able to hold our structure better than the doggies and better than we did in previous weeks (maybe similar against Freo) by ensuring we almost always had a key forward, a few genuine talls down back, and Maxy killing it through the middle and pretty much everywhere else.

We also tended to play an attacking disposal game forward of play off HB and through the middle,  much more so than the doggies, who went lateral and kicked backwards quite a bit more.... Meters gained > Demons 6,220 vs Doggies 5,581.  That means the doggies were giving up (in comparison to us)  3.7 times the length of the G over the entire match or almost the length of the G every quarter.

The doggies also turned the ball over 9 times more and we had 10 more intercepts.

The other huge differential was score involvements.  Demons 133 vs Doggies 73.  60 more!  Would suggest we linked up much more effectively, more often for the eventual scoreboard result.  Good signs against a pretty ordinary opp but we need to remain positive.

Great analysis. A couple of thoughts:

At half time we were already leading the marks, and were pretty much even in contested possessions, so I don't think this was a big change in the second half. I feel the difference in the contrsted work was our numbers at the ball, and positioning ie we were inside our opponents at the contest early. Collingwood did exactly the same thing to us.

 

The meters gained stat is particularly interesting given they had more inside 50s. Id like to see an analysis of that but they'd never give us that data! You are right that we didn't switch us much, but I was also pleased to note our "fat side" players defensive side at all times, unlike against St Kilda.

 

On the score involvements, it's worth looking at them as "per score" instead of total: MFC 4.48 per score vs WB 3.84 per score. Although it it's probably reflective of performance, it doesn't look like quite as large a gap in this format and also may be skewed by us giving up some early goals through turnovers in defence plus us having a few long chain "coast to coast" goals once we got on top.