http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-11-29/lewis-trains-with-backline

Quote:  "...Lewis said the Demons had identified the need for an experienced head in defence...one of the gaps was a little bit of leadership down back..."

That suggests that Hibberd and Jetta while outstanding, very experienced players and in the AA squad/team, they aren't so rated on the leadership side of things.   That is a shame since we have such an inexperienced back line and we don't have Lewis on field for too much longer.

A job for Lever in a few years - to become the leader "...who could set up the backline and marshall the defenders..."   

Alas...we could do with a few more 'marshalls' in other parts of the field.  

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Quote:  "...Lewis said the Demons had identified the need for an experienced head in defence...one of the gaps was a little bit of leadership down back..."

That suggests that Hibberd and Jetta while outstanding, very experienced players and in the AA squad/team, they aren't so rated on the leadership side of things.   That is a shame since we have such an inexperienced back line and we don't have Lewis on field for too much longer.

A job for Lever in a few years - to become the leader "...who could set up the backline and marshall the defenders..."   

Alas...we could do with a few more 'marshalls' in other parts of the field.  

I read it more as Lewis is too slow for the midfield so will now just sit across half-back and get cheap kicks.

That's a role he played for much of 2017 anyway so nothing is really changing.

Edited November 29, 20177 yr by Clint Bizkit

43 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Quote:  "...Lewis said the Demons had identified the need for an experienced head in defence...one of the gaps was a little bit of leadership down back..."

That suggests that Hibberd and Jetta while outstanding, very experienced players and in the AA squad/team, they aren't so rated on the leadership side of things.   That is a shame since we have such an inexperienced back line and we don't have Lewis on field for too much longer.

A job for Lever in a few years - to become the leader "...who could set up the backline and marshall the defenders..."   

Alas...we could do with a few more 'marshalls' in other parts of the field.  

I love both of those guys but Hibberd is very aggressive at winning the ball and taking the game on so it doesn't really surprise me that he isn't the best at marshalling the troops. I'm shocked that Jetta isn't in the leadership group and isn't given more responsibility. Really though Lewis will take Vince's spot in the side so I'd probably put it on Bernie.

Edited November 29, 20177 yr by DeeSpencer

33 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Quote:  "...Lewis said the Demons had identified the need for an experienced head in defence...one of the gaps was a little bit of leadership down back..."

That suggests that Hibberd and Jetta while outstanding, very experienced players and in the AA squad/team, they aren't so rated on the leadership side of things.   That is a shame since we have such an inexperienced back line and we don't have Lewis on field for too much longer.

A job for Lever in a few years - to become the leader "...who could set up the backline and marshall the defenders..."   

Alas...we could do with a few more 'marshalls' in other parts of the field.  

Hopefully some of what Lewis brings to the table will rub off on them over the next 2 years.  As you say, Lever has been identified as someone with excellent leadership qualities, so having Lewis down there also allows him to continue to develop those as he settles into the playing group.

Hopefully we have things in place where Lewis isn't left out the back against someone who can exploit the fact that he isn't the quickest bloke on the park.  The last thing I want to see is a little fella burning him off as he runs into a few open goals.

32 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I read it more as Lewis is too slow for the midfield so will now just sit across half-back and get cheap kicks.

That's a role he played for much of 2016 anyway so nothing is really changing.

2017* and there's some truth in this. The AFL app actually had Lewis as one of our hardest attacking runners so he was constantly working to get in to space, but clearly his defensive running was badly lacking. I like the idea of him setting up the defenders, especially if he's got 3 weapons in Lever, Hunt and Hibberd to work with across half back.

It probably means Salem and Brayshaw in particular have to get super fit so they can play midfield and rotate forward if Lewis gets the half back role.

29 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Hopefully some of what Lewis brings to the table will rub off on them over the next 2 years.  As you say, Lever has been identified as someone with excellent leadership qualities, so having Lewis down there also allows him to continue to develop those as he settles into the playing group.

Hopefully we have things in place where Lewis isn't left out the back against someone who can exploit the fact that he isn't the quickest bloke on the park.  The last thing I want to see is a little fella burning him off as he runs into a few open goals.

A lot of our defenders were found out 'out the back'.  It is an unfortunate feature of our 'zone defence'.   Hopefully we become more practiced at it and players are in the right positions at the right time.  Then Lewis' (or Bernie's, or Jones') lack of speed in defence won't hurt us so much.

I think the 'set up' of the defenders Lewis referred to is as much about set-up for kick-ins.  How many times last year did the ball go straight to the opposition or the opposition got it on the ground and sent it straight back to goals. 

Set-up for boundary throw-ins in the back half is an issue.  It hurt us a lot in the back half when Max couldn't jump and our small players were in the wrong place.  A fit Max would help.

Finally, I hope the set-ups behind the ball at centre bounces get some work as we were badly caught out with that plan in the back half of the season.

So, for mine the issue of 'set-up' in defence and marshalling the players is broader and more important than Lewis' or others (slowing) speed.  And fortunately it is being addressed.

Edited November 29, 20177 yr by Lucifer's Hero

Was very interested to see Luke Hodge mic'ed up last year during a match.  He spent the entire game barking orders and instructions to all of the players around him.  He was constantly organising and positioning his teammates and placing himself between the ball and the next kick.  The experience and concentration it would take to do this, in addition to playing you own game, is immense and I would suggest that's what's being asked of Lewis.

 

 

Edited November 29, 20177 yr by TeamPlayedFine39

Set ups, running speeds, zone defences all sound great but what we will need more than anything is a player to replace the role that Jack Watts played in more than a couple of close games last season - to act as the long stop for the zone defence as the last man in the goal square to deny the opposition an easy goal. Needs cool head, match awareness and a defensive posture.

It's more to do with positioning himself to best advantage and then becoming an "arm waver" like the lions aged recruit. He will be too busy to set up at balls ups and boundary throw ins and these should be the responsibility of the immediate players and the province of the coaches.

Let's free up Hibbert, Jetta, Dunn, Salem and Lever to run and play attacking football.

 

12 minutes ago, tiers said:

Set ups, running speeds, zone defences all sound great but what we will need more than anything is a player to replace the role that Jack Watts played in more than a couple of close games last season - to act as the long stop for the zone defence as the last man in the goal square to deny the opposition an easy goal. Needs cool head, match awareness and a defensive posture.

It's more to do with positioning himself to best advantage and then becoming an "arm waver" like the lions aged recruit. He will be too busy to set up at balls ups and boundary throw ins and these should be the responsibility of the immediate players and the province of the coaches.

Let's free up Hibbert, Jetta, Dunn, Salem and Lever to run and play attacking football.

 

Hogan shifted back a few times last year to play that role at the end of quarters.

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I love both of those guys but Hibberd is very aggressive at winning the ball and taking the game on so it doesn't really surprise me that he isn't the best at marshalling the troops. I'm shocked that Jetta isn't in the leadership group and isn't given more responsibility. Really though Lewis will take Vince's spot in the side so I'd probably put it on Bernie.

Lewis has a cool head with ball in  hands even when he receives cheap kicks.If it makes us better with him as a permanent backman, sweeper and link man it will surely help the team as well up the ground.

Seven man backline.

Harmes seems leaner and is training with the mids and it also potentially opens up a position for Maynard.

1 hour ago, tiers said:

Let's free up Hibbert, Jetta, Dunn, Salem and Lever to run and play attacking football.

2 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Was very interested to see Luke Hodge mic'ed up last year during a match.  He spent the entire game barking orders and instructions to all of the players around him.  He was constantly organising and positioning his teammates and placing himself between the ball and the next kick.  The experience and concentration it would take to do this, in addition to playing you own game, is immense and I would suggest that's what's being asked of Lewis.

 

 

I think we have a winner.

Also I think 2018 will be Lew's last senior season, onfield.   So this role will allow him to back away from the Team ahead of the 2019 season, without leaving too much of a hole to fill.

I'm sure we will have ready made replacements, to setup in his position, for 2019.

I think the same, Re Vince.

Both these boys have made a strong difference to the Dees,  since they joined us. And served us well thus far.

Lewis finished equal third in our B&F this year.

And, as everyone knows, he missed games through suspension. Had he played in those, I reckon we would've won some of them, especially the Fremantle game, and those games would've translated into more votes.

In short, Lewis is not past it. He remains a super important player for us.

I will be stunned if he does not (at the very least) play out his entire contract at the Dees i.e. barring serious injury, he will absolutely play next year.

Like Hibberd, such a valuable pick up for this list.

 

What I learned from that article: they're persisting with Vince in defence unfortunately.

4 hours ago, Skuit said:

What I learned from that article: they're persisting with Vince in defence unfortunately.

His stoppage work isn't clean enough. All he does is bang it on the boot. Even Bernie at his very best and ball magnety was imprecise with his disposal from these situations. He'll still work as a midfielder tagger, but not every week, so basically it means he'll play defence. But I can't see him playing every week, though I'm really surprised they renewed his contract at all. Be interesting to see how next season unfolds RE: Vince.

5 hours ago, A F said:

His stoppage work isn't clean enough. All he does is bang it on the boot. Even Bernie at his very best and ball magnety was imprecise with his disposal from these situations. He'll still work as a midfielder tagger, but not every week, so basically it means he'll play defence. But I can't see him playing every week, though I'm really surprised they renewed his contract at all. Be interesting to see how next season unfolds RE: Vince.

Would still like to see Vince more up forward.  He has good sense around goals and can sink them from a mile out, which I think keeps the oppo guessing and relieves a bit of congestion in our forward 50 arc.

I liked how the article spike of the hurt and hunger that our younger players have returned with.  Even our prize recruit Lever should have some of that in him after the Crows finish to the year and then the way they treated him.

Someone has to take the kick ins and that someone has to play in the defensive zone.  Bernard is not the ideal solution.  Sounds like Salem is in the midfield group.  They don't seem to like Hibberd for this. Maybe Lewis will take it on.

6 hours ago, A F said:

His stoppage work isn't clean enough. All he does is bang it on the boot. Even Bernie at his very best and ball magnety was imprecise with his disposal from these situations. He'll still work as a midfielder tagger, but not every week, so basically it means he'll play defence. But I can't see him playing every week, though I'm really surprised they renewed his contract at all. Be interesting to see how next season unfolds RE: Vince.

That is correct.  When he took the 1yr contract he was told he may have Casey time to give developing players game experience and he was ok with that.

 

Re some other posts in this thread on Lewis and Vince.  They are over 30, past their best and slowing down.  Our youngsters have yet to reach that critical 5 pre-seasons mark, that is generally considered when full AFL conditioning is reached.  So imv Lewis and Vince still have an important role - to keep the opp honest and 'protect' the youngsters from snipers and man-handlers - opp will be out to work over our young stars next year.  (Hopefully Lewis, Vince et al can do that without suspensions).  It is not something Jones does often and he turns 30 in January so his days are numbered (if age is the criteria for a mid fielder).

imv neither Vince or Lewis are in our bottom six and until they are I'm happy to see them on the ground.  And they aren't the worst 'butchers' of the ball in the team.  We still need their experience in all facets of the game not just possessions and kicks etc. 

Edited November 29, 20177 yr by Lucifer's Hero

42 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

That is correct.  When he took the 1yr contract he was told he may have Casey time to give developing players game experience and he was ok with that.

 

Re some other posts in this thread on Lewis and Vince.  They are over 30, past their best and slowing down.  Our youngsters have yet to reach that critical 5 pre-seasons mark, that is generally considered when full AFL conditioning is reached.  So imv Lewis and Vince still have an important role - to keep the opp honest and 'protect' the youngsters from snipers and man-handlers - opp will be out to work over our young stars next year.  (Hopefully Lewis, Vince et al can do that without suspensions).  It is not something Jones does often and he turns 30 in January so his days are numbered (if age is the criteria for a mid fielder).

imv neither Vince or Lewis are in our bottom six and until they are I'm happy to see them on the ground.  And they aren't the worst 'butchers' of the ball in the team.  We still need their experience in all facets of the game not just possessions and kicks etc. 

Generally agree with all of the above.

 I think Bernie sometimes cops it for spraying the ball, but I'm guessing that he often unloads upfeild when he feels like he is under the pump and would probably turn it over holding the ball or trying to dish off a handball to a teammate already under pressure.  How many times have you heard supporters say "just kick the bloody thing" when we handball and dither in defence.  I think being the senior player he is, Bernie is given a bit of licence to have that bomb up the ground when there are no other options and is secure enough in his own ability and place in the side when the bomb gets turned over.  When in time and space, Bernie can be a pretty good user of the ball and those cute little kicks into the centre of the ground often create something really damaging when they do come off.  I also don't think anyone should underestimate the value of Bernie playing for Casey and developing our younger players, particularly given we have lost Grimes, Dunn, Garland and Trenners that were playing that role down there so well.  If I were a developing young player, I recon I'd love playing there with Bernie and he will love the role of mentoring, passing on some footy smarts and helping our youngster walk a foot taller when he plays.

Similarly, I've observed that Lewis is usually a pretty good user of the ball and has a good knack of repeditively getting to the right spot where we need someone to be to link up and form a good chain of disposals and he seems to particularly do this at times the team is struggling to maintain possession and composure.  If he can teach that to some of our other younger or even somewhat experienced players like Jetta (I like the Hodge comparison someone made), then that could be a real boon for the side in years to come.  Conversely, Lewis does occasionally have his days and moments where he is horrendously fumbles the ball and occasionally completely butchers it by foot.  People went off at Tom MacDonald for his shocking turnover last round against the Pies, but I watched Lewis do something just as bad in our game in Darwin against the GC when the game was on the line.  At the end of the day, even the best players are all human.

21 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I read it more as Lewis is too slow for the midfield so will now just sit across half-back and get cheap kicks.

That's a role he played for much of 2017 anyway so nothing is really changing.

Yes, and he did it so well. Of the games that I saw him play last season, he was forever encouraging with younger players and assisting others to find 'avenues' and to create new territories on-ground for improved team play. Watching this, it was virtually impossible to misread his discussions of this type. Talking, pointing, slapping bums when he'd finished - it was like having a coach on the field - similar to what Ditterich used to do as captain-coach. If he has slowed himself, fairy nuff. His role was always to teach our brigade. He has the experience and acuity to do these things onfield - and he'd still win more of the ball than nearly every one of his opponents. Sometimes, two. Heil, Lewis. 

Some really well balanced view points. Good to read. 

Like with many other players, where Lewis and Vince play in any individual game or part of a game will depend on our match ups, team balance and tactics.  

We need to have players settle into a position but also the need to make changes when the needs of any particular game changes.

20 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

2017* and there's some truth in this. The AFL app actually had Lewis as one of our hardest attacking runners so he was constantly working to get in to space, but clearly his defensive running was badly lacking. I like the idea of him setting up the defenders, especially if he's got 3 weapons in Lever, Hunt and Hibberd to work with across half back.

It probably means Salem and Brayshaw in particular have to get super fit so they can play midfield and rotate forward if Lewis gets the half back role.

exactly and I think now is the time for them to step up into more midfield time. As well as Petracca, and hopefully Vandenburg is up and running this year, as we need that bigger bodied bullrunning  through there. also think he has some toe others like Tyson don't have.