On 28/08/2017 at 23:44, Fat Tony said:

Our list is in the premiership window next year. Flag or failure. 

Is it?

  On 29/08/2017 at 07:06, praha said:

Is it?

Yes. We had shocking luck this year with injury and suspension and were just 3.5 games off top spot. Petracca and Oliver will get better again next year. Achieving 14 wins would not be an improvement if we have an ounce of luck.

  On 29/08/2017 at 07:06, praha said:

Is it?

not yet..about 3-4 short of it

  On 29/08/2017 at 07:06, praha said:

Is it?

Further, the Tigers were about as long as 80/1 for the flag at the start of the year and would have finished on top had Mundy not slotted the goal after the siren. They are three home finals from winning it all.

I expect 22 wins next year. 

That should guarantee top 4

you're welcome!

#ruthless? 

If you want ruthless, I have a clear message that can be sent. It is not meant to disrespect a champion player and servant of the club but to align ourselves behind the most ruthless, unrelenting presence the club has:

sole captain: Jack Viney

jonesy is a champ and gives his all. But I think I can count on one hand the number of games I remember where he has been the difference, the standout factor of driving us over the line. I don't mean to scapegoat him, I just mean that Viney on field drives the team around him. The stats of losses when he is out are so damning. I pray to any and every possible being that can contribute, make his injuries disappear and let Jack be the man he wants to be, the captain we need him to be. 

What's all the top 4 /16 wins talk. Melbourne will be battling for finals Again. Other teams will be improving and from previous history, a lot faster than Melbourne.

Will be fighting for a spot with at least, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Saints, and Dogs. You could easily add Carlton and Freo.

Top 4 talk right now is up there with the Demons foul rancid weekend.

Go hell for leather all year, and win every game.

Injuries aside I EXPECT to get have a better approach to games we play against an inferior opponent, a better headspace at the start of games, continued development of our best talent, and a less arrogant/ignorant performance from our coaching staff and Goodwin.

If all of that happens and we win 13 games - fine with me but FMD the league is even...

  On 28/08/2017 at 23:44, Fat Tony said:

Our list is in the premiership window next year. Flag or failure. 

HA - I remember Roos saying this, my god how far we are!!

The current list is really only capable of 10-12 wins.  We have deficiencies in the backline,  forwardline and in the midfield.  We are often a slow side and even mediocre teams are able to exploit our slow movement of the ball - that's why we lose to them.  It's time to face facts.

We also lack a killer instinct and start too many games slowly before we slip into gear (and often, that's too late)

Other teams knew how to easily beat us when we were bruise free and they now know that they can beat us with leg speed and quick movement of the ball.  There are no secrets in the AFL.  Opposition tall forwards are a real issue too.

More than a few of our players are overrated too ... we're just not that good and we missed the finals for good reasons.

However, if we can improve our list we can win more than 12 games ... we need 2 key backs, 2 key forwards (T-Mac should be one of those) and an injection of real pace and skill in the midfield (3 or 4 of them)  We also have far too many inbetween players on the list and it's time to cull them.

We do all that and we can play finals. 

 

Teams that will decline slightly next year due to experienced player departures:

Hawthorn (Hodge), Bulldogs (Boyd, Murphy), Saints (Riewoldt, Montagna), West Coast (Mitchell, Priddis)

Keep in mind that Richmond and Essendon finished bottom 6 last year, helping their finals surge this year. Port also got a super-easy run finishing in the mid-range last year; they ended up 5th despite only beating 2 teams in the top 8 (Sydney when they were terrible and West Coast, who nobody rates -- fitting they play each other in the first elimination final; they're both pretenders).

Unfortunately Collingwood managed 10.5 wins and STILL finished bottom 6. Like us, they lost a lot of games by small margins. Their list is nowhere near as bad as it appears and their easy fixture will see them push for finals.

  On 29/08/2017 at 11:51, Macca said:

The current list is really only capable of 10-12 wins.  We have deficiencies in the backline,  forwardline and in the midfield.  We are often a slow side and even mediocre teams are able to exploit our slow movement of the ball - that's why we lose to them.  It's time to face facts.

We also lack a killer instinct and start too many games slowly before we slip into gear (and often, that's too late)

Other teams knew how to easily beat us when we were bruise free and they now know that they can beat us with leg speed and quick movement of the ball.  There are no secrets in the AFL.  Opposition tall forwards are a real issue too.

More than a few of our players are overrated too ... we're just not that good and we missed the finals for good reasons.

However, if we can improve our list we can win more than 12 games ... we need 2 key backs, 2 key forwards (T-Mac should be one of those) and an injection of real pace and skill in the midfield (3 or 4 of them)  We also have far too many inbetween players on the list and it's time to cull them.

We do all that and we can play finals. 

 

You forgot to mention the need to improve foot skills and decision making.

  On 29/08/2017 at 12:10, billyblanks29 said:

Teams that will decline slightly next year due to experienced player departures:

Hawthorn (Hodge), Bulldogs (Boyd, Murphy), Saints (Riewoldt, Montagna), West Coast (Mitchell, Priddis)

History tells us one at least will surprise you.

Hawks may lose Hodge and his on field leadership but could also gain a lot more out of seasoned campaigners in Rioli Chip Stratton and Birchall while O'Meara is a wild card. On top of that they were pretty impressive for the second half of the season 

Dogs - hunger alone and more continuity could see them improve 

Saints - if they land Kelly to give more hard running along with Steven with Dunstan Ross and Stevens on the inside they will be hard to beat

Meth Coast - he is overrated but Nic Nat causes an awful lot of chaos panic and collateral damage around the clearances. They are strong down back and up forward. Home ground advantage sees even an average side generally snagging between 8 and 9 home wins.

If we think natural progression of a developing list gets us into finals we are kidding ourselves. Only hard work and becoming ruthless will see us break into the to finals and have influence

I just want to see us in the finals, the goal doesn't change. But if we don't next year it'll be hard to believe we ever will. 16 is a bit optimistic as I don't think we can string together that much good form (or luck),

  On 29/08/2017 at 12:47, bingers said:

You forgot to mention the need to improve foot skills and decision making.

Yep, it's also important to remember that a lot of clubs have a lot of deficiencies as well.  But I'd rather see the club create a greater gap between us and those other clubs = more wins.

Our strengths are at the contest,  contested ball,  our teamwork (at times) stoppages, in the ruck and we are not bruise-free.  We need more quick players like Hunt & Frost.  Both those lads are learning how to play footy though.

Oliver is an enormously quick thinker with lightning fast hands, and he reads the play well.  Tyson is a ball magnet but we need to learn how to feed off him and use him properly.  Other players have other strengths

We're not the worst but we're a fair way off the best. 

I want to see the club build a great list.

Like a dour accountant evaluating a company that may or may not be going places, the list should perhaps be looked at and addressed from a pessimistic point of view.

If you want to see Melbourne have 16 wins next year, send them to North Korea for preseason training instead of sunshine coast.That should harden the pricks up!!

  On 29/08/2017 at 12:10, billyblanks29 said:

Teams that will decline slightly next year due to experienced player departures:

Hawthorn (Hodge), Bulldogs (Boyd, Murphy), Saints (Riewoldt, Montagna), West Coast (Mitchell, Priddis)

Mate Hawks West coast anad Bisbane will cruise past us next year

Watch and see!

Everyone is under estimating the value of games experience here.

Why do you think North Melbourne finished 15th this year? Losing about 1200 games experience across 4 players will do that. Those guys are replaced with kids.

We have no retirees this year which is a good thing.

  On 30/08/2017 at 03:04, billyblanks29 said:

Everyone is under estimating the value of games experience here.

Why do you think North Melbourne finished 15th this year? Losing about 1200 games experience across 4 players will do that. Those guys are replaced with kids.

We have no retirees this year which is a good thing.

? And yet an undermanned, less experienced and younger team spanked us on Sat..

  On 29/08/2017 at 03:14, Garbo said:

Anyone expecting 16 wins next year will be in for a very disappointing year. I think getting 13-14 will be more than hard enough with the tougher draw we will get, everyone saw what happened to saints this year, don't be surprised is we take a step back in wins.

Why would our draw be harder? We're in the same group of 6 as last year (middle 6)

  On 30/08/2017 at 11:26, Dr. Gonzo said:

Why would our draw be harder? We're in the same group of 6 as last year (middle 6)

My bad thought we were bottom 6 last year, must have been thinking of 2015. Still it does get exponentially harder to win more games since those wins need to come against better sides.

I hope Goodwin has a plan B up his sleeve next year as our style of play got found out more and more as the year went on. Most of our wins in the 2nd half of the year were due to talent and not tactics. A reason why Brad Scott beats us time and time again, he's a better coach than his brother. 

Bump.

How’s everyone’s expectations now?

In my opinion, we’re on track and percentage is also on track for 125+%

Remember...always set your expectations higher..

15-7/17-5 range inbound.