Lack of Finals = Failed Season?

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

All you blokes are going to be able to pay your subscriptions in Murdoch Papers, listen to the radio, and agree with them all when they tell you about how not only your Club and Your Coaching Panel and your Players let everyone down, but you will be able to pay them to read/hear it. Because they will be well ahead of you and relentless in their bile.......

Sounds like a good deal, doesn't it. I don't need some sh#t kicking media pip squeak to tell me what i think. I'll stick fat.... 

[Fork 'em 6,983]

1 minute ago, willmoy said:

 . I don't need some sh#t kicking media pip squeak to tell me what i think. I'll stick fat.... 

Must be talking about Sam Mclure

[praha 11,228]

9 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

I guess with that rationale Robbie Flower must have been a perennial loser also. Not!

Flower was a league above Jones. Nate is half the player Flower was.

[btdemon 482]

18 hours ago, deejammin' said:

I understand the frustration many others are expressing at the moment. The reality is MFC has played well this year and given us hope of finals and if not for a few close losses we could be booking our tickets now. Even more frustrating is that in most of these games we've led late into the last quarter only to see it slip away. 

However, while for all of us hope has led to our expectations getting higher and higher and the disappointment that comes when we fall short is tough to take, to this point in the season we have clearly improved.

With three rounds left our percentage is better, our ladder position is better and looking at our losses we have not only been far closer but in our top 8 losses last year we were nowhere near in the last quarter whereas this year in all but our top three losses (6/9) we have led or been even in the last quarter. This is a mark of a far more competitive and consistent team, particularly given that our injuries in 2017 have been far worse, to more important players than 2016. And given that 2017 is a far closer year across the competition.

2017

Won 10 Lost 9 104.8%

Ladder Position 10

2016

Won 10 Lost 12 97.6%

Ladder Position 11

Losing margin (largest - smallest)

2016

Geelong 111pts

Sydney 55pts

Port 45pts

St Kilda 39pts

St Kilda 36pts

Bulldogs 32pts

Adelaide 22pts

Carlton 20pts

Hawthorn 18pts

Essendon 13pts

West Coast 6pts

North 5pts

2017

Crows by 46pts

Giants by 35pts

Swans by 35pts

Geelong by 29pts

North by 14pts

Tigers by 13pts

North by 4pts

Hawthorn by 3pts

Freo by 2pts

No doubt the last few weeks have left us gutted, and a pessimist would say we can still go backwards and not have improved if we lose our last 3 games. 

But to this point in the year we have clearly improved in almost every category, have been far more competitive across the board despite considerably more adversity this year and have a chance to go to the finals if we can beat the Saints this week.

The last two weeks were frustrating, disappointing and worrying but not the end of our season. Back the boys in! Let's smash those Saints and get back on track!!

This is spot on. We are moving in the right direction and I expect us to play finals next year. It would have been great to have one or two finals matches this year for the experience. This could still happen but I am not overly optimistic. I think Goody is building a great team structure but the rebuild is not complete yet. I posted earlier this season that those who thought we were "the real deal" and could "go all the way" were media types cranking up stories to fill there columns or have something to say on various footy shows. It was never realistic and those on this forum who got sucked in are those who are now saying that the year has been a failure. Our game is built on pressure around the ball and frenetic play-on footy. It can fall apart under pressure and this has happened over the last couple of games. We still have some NQRs and have showed that our game requires a higher skill level when the pressure is on. GWS, Swans and Crows have shown us that. As well as TMac has played, he ain't no forward. We all know that. Hopefully next year our back six and forward six will be more settled and our young players won't be burnt out by round 18 or 19

Edited August 7, 2017 by btdemon

[Earl Hood 6,082]

8 hours ago, Hell Bent said:

Have we improved? YES (However some of the stats I`ve seen for the past 5 weeks are worse than last year!)

Have we failed if we don`t make finals? YES

 

Last 5 games we are 18th for points scored, tackle and clearance differentials and scores per inside 50 entries. Something has gone horribly wrong while we have had key players coming back. 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

13 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Last 5 games we are 18th for points scored, tackle and clearance differentials and scores per inside 50 entries. Something has gone horribly wrong while we have had key players coming back. 

That's alarming. Let's hope the coaches work it out quick smart.

The side hasn't been settled all year apart from the tough patch in the middle of the season when we were forced to play the same 22 basically. We made four changes against Port, the same against GWS.

We are up to 36 players used for the season. It's great to get key players back but there is no continuity. 

It is a shame that everything seems to going downhill at the moment but at least we have 3 weeks to salvage something.

 

[praha 11,228]

9 hours ago, DemonWA said:

We'd like to think so, but weather or not we win the next 3 games isn't a reflection of individuals leadership, it's a reflection of the ability of the team (IMO)

There's no point having captains and a leadership group if you're going to spread the accountability across a whole team including players with less than 50 games experience. Lyon made a good point about Saturday, they scored 10 goals in a row with ease and there was little resistance. It was a major indictment on Lewis and Jones and Co. Goodwin said at quarter time that we were too quick in the wind. That's part coaching, part leadership problem.  Leaders are directors that ensure the directives are met. There was no talking or resistance to an onslaught that made us look like the worst team in the comp. And it's happened multiple times this year-- Freo, Hawthorn, first game against North --when we had our leaders playing without injury. GWS are very good,I'm not even angry about the loss broadly, but that first quarter was shocking revelation of where our leadership stocks are at.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

46 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Last 5 games we are 18th for points scored, tackle and clearance differentials and scores per inside 50 entries. Something has gone horribly wrong while we have had key players coming back. 

We've almost gone in the opposite direction - we were excellent without the key players, and since we've gotten them back we have lost the plot.  We were supposed to push for a Top 4 spot, now we're just keeping our heads above water.

I do wonder about the physical toll this season has taken on the players and the constant changes they have had to endure.  It feels like the last month has caught up with them, but as we've had wins in the bank we have been able to stay with the rest.  Hopefully we get a second wind and turn things around from here.

[Tony Tea 2,806]

I have my fingers crossed that our loss to North didn't pull the plug out of our season like out loss to Carlton last year. 

[jnrmac 20,053]

12 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

What if we win the last 3 but still don't make finals due to miraculous form by Essendon? 

That'd mean due to the North loss, the season then becomes a failure from that logic as that was the only game in this back half that we expected to win but lost. 

2 losses to norf

[rpfc 28,248]

If we win 13 games and miss out on the finals on % then that is a very impressive failure.

But does it really matter? What repercussions will occur if we don't make the finals? Public apology? Wholesale delistings?

Mark the season with whatever grade you want. It won't change the attitude toward 2018 and the future, which - I have to say - is the brightest I have ever seen at this club.

Edited August 7, 2017 by rpfc

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,108]

Unless a disaster occurs we will end up with more wins, a healthier percentage and likely half the amount of losses by 5 goals or more. We have been in pretty close to all games going into the last quarter. We have played large stretches of the season without arguably our two most important players in Gawn and Hogan, add to this the number of games missed through our midfield by Lewis, Jones, Viney, Brayshaw. Our kids have shown some great improvement but we have had an over reliance on them and they have faded in the last month. 

I will be disappointed if we do not make finals because aside from all the above it feels like we have missed opportunities we should have taken but we have also taken wins we would not have expected. The additional fact that we have fell in a large hole the last month and look a shadow of the best pressure side in the competition also leaves a bad taste in the mouth. 

Is the season a failure no. Is missing finals a disappointment based on what we have done to two thirds through with much getting in our way? If we miss yes.

[John Crow Batty 8,860]

If we miss out on finals the public perception will be that we blew it and confirms our mediocrity. It was only a few weeks ago we were being touted as strong deep finals candidates. We can spin all we like that next season will be bigger and better. OH wait, that was said last season also. That won't fool the AFL fixture planners, the media, sponsors and many current and potential members. Incremental improvement as seen in the past four seasons  only takes us closer to the window of success closing.

Edited August 8, 2017 by america de cali

[beelzebub 23,313]

Dees have a new club song

 

[worldwideweb_demon 90]

Glass half empty...

Outplayed and outcoached by Carlton in both games.

Houdini act against the Eagles

If Daniher kicked straight..

If umpires weren't on our side against the Pies..

Could easily have been 5 wins 14 losses

How we thrashed Adelaide  and struggle in other games I don't know

We also gave up a big lead against the Ablett-less suns.

[Diablo Deemon 220]

Anyone who thinks that not playing finals this year is a success is deluded. With what position we were in 5 weeks ago our down turn has been stark we have ran into a wall and so far the players and coaches have shown no ability to change the trajectory. 

We won't go anywhere next year if we can't show the mental application of re-establishing form in season when we're up against it. 

The next 3 games are a must they need to be convincing and now we rely on other results going our way which should never of happened for finals. 

I don't know about others but I have had enough of a below average or average season.

 

[beelzebub 23,313]

4 minutes ago, worldwideweb_demon said:

Glass half empty...

Outplayed and outcoached by Carlton in both games.

Houdini act against the Eagles

If Daniher kicked straight..

If umpires weren't on our side against the Pies..

Could easily have been 5 wins 14 losses

How we thrashed Adelaide  and struggle in other games I don't know

We also gave up a big lead against the Ablett-less suns.

ah yes...sliding doors...

not far from a reality...and thats either the rub of the green , luck of the irish...or providence. As the latter is the jurisdiction of  that 'other' guy....probably not.

[worldwideweb_demon 90]

Then look at our talent pool:

Hogan - mini draft pick 2

Jones - pick 12

Salem - pick 9

Watts - pick 1

Petracca - pick 2

Lewis - pick 7

Viney - pick 7 port bid

Trengove - pick 2

Brayshaw - pick 3

Tyson - pick 3

Oliver - 4

Weideman - pick 9

We need another 10 first round picks to fill a whole team before we challenge for finals me thinks

[Lucifers Hero 39,504]

 

33 minutes ago, america de cali said:

If we miss out on finals the public perception will be that we blew it and confirms our mediocrity. It was only a few weeks ago we were being touted as strong deep finals candidates. We can spin all we like that next season will be bigger and better. OH wait, that was said last season also. That won't fool the AFL fixture planners, the media, sponsors and many current and potential members. Incremental improvement as seen in the past four seasons  only takes us closer to the window of success closing.

I 'Like' * 1000!!

All the stakeholders you mention only care about wins and number of members! That is the big problem if we don't make finals.  They will say, yes Demons are improving but others are improving more or faster.

All those people on here wanting to stop Home NT games, have fewer 6 day breaks, have no 'suburban' ovals etc just don't get it.  If we don't win more games/make finals Jackson will have very little leverage on the fixture etc.

A lot of our best players come out of contract next year.  Other teams will be circling.  They will wonder whether it is worth staying at the Dees... The chances of getting an elite player will be lowered.

Peter Jackson set goals of finals in 2016 and winning one in 2017.  We can still achieve the latter.  Jackson will be tearing his hair out if we don't make finals.

If we miss finals people can come with all sorts of feel good platitudes (injuries, youth, experience, 6 day breaks etc etc) but the truth is finals are critical to our future.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Demons1858 1,742]

3 hours ago, praha said:

Flower was a league above Jones. Nate is half the player Flower was.

Yes, and? Your stating the obvious and not making sense.

Is Jones a lesser player because he has played in perennial 'loser 'sides or is it because he isn't as talented as one of the best players to ever put on a MFC jumper?

If your going to be so hard on someone it would be good to provide some constructive criticism to support it.

Can't for the life of me understand how any true MFC supporters can be so critical of Jones. What a joke. All credibility lost pushing that line IMO

[Wiseblood 24,637]

This is always a loaded question, and quite rightly we have very different feelings on the matter.

For me, the next 3 weeks tells us plenty.  I would HATE to miss finals, especially considering how well we did during the middle of the season with so many injuries, but at the same time we've shown tremendous improvement across the board - many players have improved this year and the fact that we are now a very competitive side speaks volumes, particularly where we've come from.  Being competitive isn't enough, though, and the drop off in the last month has been disappointing  

If we win our next 3 and miss out somehow, then you could argue that we have made the improvement we all wanted.  Lose a couple and it would be hard to argue the season isn't a failure.

I do like the direction we are headed in though, and I'm excited to see how Goodwin goes with a full season under his belt, not to mention key players potentially getting a proper crack at a full season.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Fail v Not Fail

I take myself out of this and consider how the players would have approached this. Don't tell me they weren't thinking of Sept !!

If we don't play in any meaningful way come Sept I'd lay London to a brick that the players will be dark on themselves.

Thats for mine...is a FAIL. There for the taking.

[praha 11,228]

11 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

Yes, and? Your stating the obvious and not making sense.

Is Jones a lesser player because he has played in perennial 'loser 'sides or is it because he isn't as talented as one of the best players to ever put on a MFC jumper?

If your going to be so hard on someone it would be good to provide some constructive criticism to support it.

Can't for the life of me understand how any true MFC supporters can be so critical of Jones. What a joke. All credibility lost pushing that line IMO

They are distinctively different players from different eras. Flower played for a team with [censored] house zones and no facilities. That he got them up and into finals in 87 is testament to that. Which is my point. Flowers legacy would have lived on regardless but it was that little bit more special by making the finals in 87. When we had an opportunity he went above and beyond playing injured in the worst club  of the preceding 2 decades. Jones' legacy is imo shaped around this very scenario, 30 years on. I'm not saying he can't do it. I'm saying he needs to. We need him to step up to the plate.

[Demons1858 1,742]

23 minutes ago, Diablo Deemon said:

Anyone who thinks that not playing finals this year is a success is deluded. With what position we were in 5 weeks ago our down turn has been stark we have ran into a wall and so far the players and coaches have shown no ability to change the trajectory. 

We won't go anywhere next year if we can't show the mental application of re-establishing form in season when we're up against it. 

The next 3 games are a must they need to be convincing and now we rely on other results going our way which should never of happened for finals. 

I don't know about others but I have had enough of a below average or average season.

 

Our position on ladder in the past is irrelevant, its the teams you come up against you should be analysing. Losing to Adel, Sydney, and GWS is expected. Losing to North wasn't and nor was winning against West Coast away and Port. Young teams have unexpected wins and loses it and it shouldn't surprise anyone if you analyse it in a rational way.

Net result is we are where we would have expected to be given the harder recent games. Not to mention key injuries and returning players coming back underdone. The last 3 weeks were always going to be crucial to making the finals.

As Mike Malthouse said recently (I hear he has played and coached a few finals) its more about the team that clicks leading into finals that counts and consistency throughout the year is a little overrated. We need to be the team that clicks more so than Esse, West Coast, St.Ki and the Bullogs!  With returning players having had games under their belt and coming back at the G starting with an 8 day break we get on a roll again like earlier in the year. Go Dees!!!

[Demons1858 1,742]

7 minutes ago, praha said:

They are distinctively different players from different eras. Flower played for a team with [censored] house zones and no facilities. That he got them up and into finals in 87 is testament to that. Which is my point. Flowers legacy would have lived on regardless but it was that little bit more special by making the finals in 87. When we had an opportunity he went above and beyond playing injured in the worst club  of the preceding 2 decades. Jones' legacy is imo shaped around this very scenario, 30 years on. I'm not saying he can't do it. I'm saying he needs to. We need him to step up to the plate.

That's a much more balanced post. Agree all leaders need to stand up especially the captains in key moments in games in the next 3 weeks. Don't forget Jones played almost a year with a badly damaged neck without complaining. And not Jones' fault the management of the club has been appalling. Just rapt he didn't leaving like Frawley, Rivers, Skully and others No decent coach, no decent recruiting or player development. At least Flower had those going for him during his time at the club