Changes vs North Melbourne

[dazzledavey36 54,866]

I wouldn't bring in Jones at all next week. Quads are a bit like calf's when you get to old age in a football context.

Give him another week and leave it unchanged. Also Bernie Vince isn't exactly an automatic selection for me. If Trengove has another good game next weekend then Vince should be made to earn his spot through the 2s. He's been reckless this year and has let the team down. Plus besides doing the job on Sloane, His form has been ordinary this year.

Edited July 23, 2017 by dazzledavey36

[frankie_d 1,471]

I think Pederson would have given more than Watts yesterday. Difficult to drop him (Watts) after only one game, and he's obviously improved enormously this last year or so...

Don't think they'll do that swap, but I wouldn't mind it.

 

[Nasher 33,613]

1 minute ago, frankie_d said:

I think Pederson would have given more than Watts yesterday. Difficult to drop him (Watts) after only one game, and he's obviously improved enormously this last year or so...

Don't think they'll do that swap, but I wouldn't mind it.

 

I rate this suggestion on the same level as I rated Clint's suggestion last week that Pedersen should play ahead of Hogan.

[frankie_d 1,471]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

I rate this suggestion on the same level as I rated Clint's suggestion last week that Pedersen should play ahead of Hogan.

Do you think Pederson would have given more than Watts yesterday?

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, frankie_d said:

Do you think Pederson would have given more than Watts yesterday?

 

Going on his past few weeks - no.

[Nasher 33,613]

8 minutes ago, frankie_d said:

Do you think Pederson would have given more than Watts yesterday?

 

No. Pedersen gave sweet FA for three weeks straight. Watts underdelivered because of poor marking efforts and so forth, but he was in the play.

Pedersen has no role to play when we've got a full list of talls to choose from.

This is exactly the same conversation I had last week. Just cross out the name Watts and write Hogan. I'm very confident the outcome will be the same here.

[frankie_d 1,471]

Just now, Nasher said:

No. Pedersen gave sweet FA for three weeks straight. Watts underdelivered because of poor marking efforts and so forth, but he was in the play.

Pedersen has no role to play when we've got a full list of talls to choose from.

That's what the FD feel, I'm sure, and they've been spot on this year - I just like his marking and attack on the ball. He gives us goals in different ways from Watts.

[deanox 9,914]

4 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Why not? He's played there for significant time all year? And with Tyson and Viney already back in and flying, we're back to our starting midfield. I'm not saying he'll play there the whole game. Just that he'll do periods there the way we've done all year putting two behind the ball. The only guy playing serious game time in the backline that's missing is Vince.

Of course all those players played yesterday in the same backline. We have the full list of starters in. That's my point.

So back to the first question. Who goes out if Jones comes back. I reckon it's Trengove. I feel like JKH after a good game first up might retain his spot over Trenners. And I don't think Trengove is required in the backline. Or midfield for that matter as we have that many names, and Trenners doesn't provide the rebound we're looking for.

Although I understand what you are saying, for me the answer to "why not?" is that structurally it doesnt make sense.  

Trengove played deep defense yesterday, not defence rotating into mid. Even if Jones rotates through mid and backline, one of the mids gets reduced minutes to share the midfield time with Jones, and thus they need to play another position.  

JKH won't be doing that (going to defence), but maybe Lewis spends more time back to accommodate the skipper in the middle? Team balance tells me swap a mid for a mid. 

We play a 7 man defence most of the time and had 8 defenders in the side yesterday including Lewis and Salem, who both take midfield minutes, I can't see Trenners going out unless one of Vince, Wagner or Smith return or Melksham is shuffled back again. 

Edited July 23, 2017 by deanox

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

8 minutes ago, deanox said:

Although I understand what you are saying, for me the answer to "why not?" is that structurally it doesnt make sense to me.  

Trengove played deep defense yesterday, not defence rotating into mid. Even if Jones rotates through mid and backline, one of the mids gets reduced minutes to share the midfield time with Jones, and thus they need to play another position.  

JKH won't be doing that (going to defence), but maybe Lewis spends more time back to accommodate the skipper in the middle? Team balance tells me swap a mid for a mid. 

We play a 7 man defence most of the time and had 8 defenders in the side yesterday including Lewis and Salem, who both take midfield minutes, I can't see Trenners going out unless one of Vince, Wagner or Smith return or Melksham is shuffled back again. 

Fair enough.

I think it also comes down to matchups and, in the end, I suspect the same old story where dappa rates JKH higher than Trenners... and Ox rates Trenners higher than JKH.

Interestingly, sentences 2 and 3 above.. agree with everything... but I assess it the opposite way. I'd LOVE it to work out as Jones getting midfield time less, along with the rest. I want to see them rotate more so Viney doesn't break down. I feel like in a final, we'll hold teams at bay and put Gawn, Viney and Jones on the bench til the last ten minutes of the last quarter when they come on and put us over the line. I love the idea of pulling our punches until such a time as we need them.

Having just completed watching the replay. I think people (rightly) are being kind to Trenners. He wasn't a passenger necessarily... but as a defender, he wasn't Jetta either and shut his man down. JKH on the other hand had a handful of fantastic disposals. High risk that came off. Once again, I like JKH... so I play him. Jones for Trenners, Lewis goes back and dappa is happia.

All good points tho ox. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. See you in a few days.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Dappa Dan

[Moonshadow 17,676]

39 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I wouldn't bring in Jones at all next week. Quads are a bit like calf's when you get to old age in a football context.

Give him another week and leave it unchanged. Also Bernie Vince isn't exactly an automatic selection for me. If Trengove has another good game next weekend then Vince should be made to earn his spot through the 2s. He's been reckless this year and has let the team down. Plus besides doing the job on Sloane, His form has been ordinary this year.

Dazzle, Vince has done quite a few very good tagging roles this year. Maybe hasn't got a lot of the pill himself, but he has kept some big names quiet. I think that is likely his best role in the lead up to finals (touch wood). At his worst, he is reckless with his hits and turns the ball over with poor decision making. His best keeps guys like Sloane and Danger quiet whilst getting 20 touches himself.

But I agree, he is no automatic in, especially if Trenners improves.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Moonshadow

[Razor 289]

15 hours ago, Big Col said:

Maybe a bit off field but Oliver was looking tired (but still playing well). He's had to carry our midfield as a 19yo 2nd year player while we've been missing Viney, jones and Tyson.

if Jones comes back this week is it time to give Clarry a rest?

 

 

Perhaps the GWS game would be the one to rest Clarry.  He surely needs one by now.

[deebug 1,754]

17 hours ago, jako13 said:

possibly give the skipper a run in the 2s next week been out a long time with the quad - run off some rust. would have been good to do it with a couple of our seniors coming back last few weeks but didnt have the luxury due to running out with our 3rds otherwise...

no change - same endeavour early and we absolutely [censored] Nth to eradicate the last decade of failures against them. [censored] hate that pissant club

No need to be shy jako13 just come out and say what mean.

[Jaded No More 68,906]

16 hours ago, Big Col said:

Maybe a bit off field but Oliver was looking tired (but still playing well). He's had to carry our midfield as a 19yo 2nd year player while we've been missing Viney, jones and Tyson.

if Jones comes back this week is it time to give Clarry a rest?

 

 

Not a bad idea but now isn't the time to rest him. We have to beat North. Maybe if we are looking more comfortable he can have a rest round 21? 

I would give Jones another week. If we play finals and he misses out because of a recurrence it would be a tragedy!  The man deserves to lead us in finals!

[daisycutter 29,613]

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

Not a bad idea but now isn't the time to rest him. We have to beat North. Maybe if we are looking more comfortable he can have a rest round 21? 

I would give Jones another week. If we play finals and he misses out because of a recurrence it would be a tragedy!  The man deserves to lead us in finals!

everyone gets a weeks rest before finals and that's only 5 weeks away

if he's crook then that's different

[samcantstandya 1,045]

3 hours ago, frankie_d said:

Do you think Pederson would have given more than Watts yesterday?

 

Watts is twice the player Pederson is. Watts just needs 2 find his mojo.

[BenJamin on Deesy St 805]

17 hours ago, Big Col said:

Maybe a bit off field but Oliver was looking tired (but still playing well). He's had to carry our midfield as a 19yo 2nd year player while we've been missing Viney, jones and Tyson.

if Jones comes back this week is it time to give Clarry a rest?

I'd never rest him. Didn't agree with last year's management of him (missing games when available, playing low minutes when selected). He's a hardened competitor who thrives on more contests, more game time. Such a consistent performer too. A 'quiet' game for him is 25 touches.

The inside players you mention coming back in the team can give him the necessary chop out during matches anyway, if he needs a breather.

On another matter, the first quarter and a half yesterday was so manic, electric and purposeful from the boys. It was as though they sensed the significance of it - right from the first bounce - in our push towards September. No one was going to beat us yesterday.

I know it gets mentioned a bit around here, but I was feeling the spirit and vigour of Aug-Sept '87 in my bones, and it felt bloody fantastic! Go Dees!!

[Ted Lasso 19,512]

Did we get any update on Gawn? i know he went for scans but haven't seen/heard anything. 

if he's out that makes our run home a little tougher 

[bringbackthebiff 654]

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

everyone gets a weeks rest before finals and that's only 5 weeks away

if he's crook then that's different

Then another rest in October...

[GoD's67 111]

14 minutes ago, Ben E said:

I'd never rest him. Didn't agree with last year's management of him (missing games when available, playing low minutes when selected). He's a hardened competitor who thrives on more contests, more game time. Such a consistent performer too. A 'quiet' game for him is 25 touches.

The inside players you mention coming back in the team can give him the necessary chop out during matches anyway, if he needs a breather.

On another matter, the first quarter and a half yesterday was so manic, electric and purposeful from the boys. It was as though they sensed the significance of it - right from the first bounce - in our push towards September. No one was going to beat us yesterday.

I know it gets mentioned a bit around here, but I was feeling the spirit and vigour of Aug-Sept '87 in my bones, and it felt bloody fantastic! Go Dees!!

Does feel like 87, but this team has a lot better cattle. Viney, Oliver, Petracca, & Hogan all have great potential to be stars & that's not mentioning Hunt, Salem & more. The future looks very bright!

[deanox 9,914]

4 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Fair enough.

I think it also comes down to matchups and, in the end, I suspect the same old story where dappa rates JKH higher than Trenners... and Ox rates Trenners higher than JKH.

Interestingly, sentences 2 and 3 above.. agree with everything... but I assess it the opposite way. I'd LOVE it to work out as Jones getting midfield time less, along with the rest. I want to see them rotate more so Viney doesn't break down. I feel like in a final, we'll hold teams at bay and put Gawn, Viney and Jones on the bench til the last ten minutes of the last quarter when they come on and put us over the line. I love the idea of pulling our punches until such a time as we need them.

Having just completed watching the replay. I think people (rightly) are being kind to Trenners. He wasn't a passenger necessarily... but as a defender, he wasn't Jetta either and shut his man down. JKH on the other hand had a handful of fantastic disposals. High risk that came off. Once again, I like JKH... so I play him. Jones for Trenners, Lewis goes back and dappa is happia.

All good points tho ox. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. See you in a few days.

Thanks for good discussion.  Im not sure that Im rating Trenners that high yet (if it was purely 1v 1 id probably go JKH on form). Im trying to be objective and look at it structurally (ie position) instead of on favourites but that isnt always easy! Your take on midfield minutes is just as valid as mine, and no idea how the coaches will see it. 

What I do know is that Trenners didn't do anything special. No attacking drive, no creative play etc.  So my gut says her didn't add a whole lot of value.  But when I consider his steady possessions, his good positioning which led to a reasonably good defensive job, and his on field leadership (directing players, structural control etc) I wonder if those things are more valuable given we have a lot of creative types in defence already.

Did those structural directions and leadership help us have our best defensive half for the year? Im not sure. But we rarely had opposition players out the back or loose, something that has plagued us this year. Maybe there is something to be said for on field positioning over creative flare sometimes!

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by deanox

[Trisul 664]

Re Oliver.. Of the players to have played more than 10 games this year, Clayton has the second lowest time on ground at 76.5%. Only Tyson is lower which is to be expected with his injury and return.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Trisul

[jumbo returns 6,741]

5 hours ago, frankie_d said:

I think Pederson would have given more than Watts yesterday. Difficult to drop him (Watts) after only one game, and he's obviously improved enormously this last year or so...

Don't think they'll do that swap, but I wouldn't mind it.

 

This is one of those joke posts, similar to making money via a pyramid scheme??

 

[jnrmac 20,059]

22 hours ago, jako13 said:

possibly give the skipper a run in the 2s next week been out a long time with the quad - run off some rust. would have been good to do it with a couple of our seniors coming back last few weeks but didnt have the luxury due to running out with our 3rds otherwise...

no change - same endeavour early and we absolutely [censored] Nth to eradicate the last decade of failures against them. [censored] hate that pissant club

wow.

FYI JOnes has been able to run, a quad mainly affects the ability to kick. So fitness shouldn't be a great problem for him.

[Biffen 12,943]

I'm told by a Norf insider that Goldstein has had groin trouble which was being treated "in house".

The problem flared up when Mrs Goldy found out.

So they replaced him with Majak who is morally perfect.

 

[brendan 3,437]

North supporters on bigfooty don't want to win this they want pick 1 now lions have won, hmmm sounds familiar hopefully they have 10 years of [censored] to go with making those kinds of decisions