POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 7

[bing181 9,328]

18 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Went down by 3 points to the best performing AFL team of all time

Their kicking was sublime

Can't be underestimated. We lost to a vastly more experienced and composed team. They may be getting a bit rusty round the edges, but there's so much shared experience in that team, they read each other's play so well, they just seem to know what their team mates are going to do with the ball in any given situation.

Us on the other hand, are the reverse. People complaining about those handballs to players standing still or out of position -often, it's not the fault of the handballer, but the handballee: time and time again I just felt that the ball was handballed to someone who wasn't expecting it, or ready for it, yet alone thinking about what they were going to do with it once they'd received it.

It isn't a question of competence of ability, it's a question of experience. Which will come in time. Just going to be frustrating along the way.

[DemonOX 8,801]

We r the turnover kings and have been for years and it's STILL A ISSUE. 

Absoulutely useless. 

We should have never been down by 35 points to a team who has ONE win for the season. 

Absoulutely useless. 

The whole team can GF. 

[bjDee 1,249]

38 minutes ago, ignition. said:

How did you find those few Hawks fans booing Lewis?

Personally, it didn't frustrate me, but I thought they were a bunch of imbeciles.

A captain in waiting that helped them win four premierships who was suddenly pushed out of the club.

Bunch of idiots really.

Agree.  But I don't see any real difference to the peanuts who boo'd Frawley.

Clubs change their allegiance, and players do too. Unfortunately you can't legislate for good manners or mutual respect in society, and especially at a footy game. 

[jumbo returns 6,741]

10th after Freo win

Challenges await now....

Edited May 7, 2017 by jumbo returns

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Where was anything in the 1st Q when a game is up for grabs?

whorethorn tore us apart

Jones was VFL standard when it mattered. 

Whorethorn are a shell of what they were and still ripped us apart...

Given the talent and where we were at vs whorethorn coming into this match i would have to say that's our worst result since the Bongers match last year. We continually dish up this rubbish.  No wonder we haven't played finals in over 10 years.  As a club we are always FAR too happy with basic wins that should be par for the course like the one we saw last week, including at the selection table, and are never able to back up good wins with another 2 or 3 (or more!!) on the trot.

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

10 minutes ago, Abe said:

3-4 

2x close losses to hawks and dockers, should have won both, 

dominated cats but didn't kick straight 

injuries saved the tigers 

we are much better than our record suggests but our consistency is the big issue. 

as frustrating as it is to lose, posters who don't see the improvement either don't know much about footy or they're letting their emotions talk. 

We are good enough to beat the crows if we play four quarters 

I am afraid we are not better. Our game plan is high risk and when it comes off it's great. The reality is that in modern football the consecutive handballs and get it to the running player will be easily closed down by a close checking team. Plan B requires more traditional down the line marking (we don't do it ) or the rolling scrum like the Bulldogs play (we are not strong enough).

For our game plan to work you need to dominate the midfield and have three outside runners together with swooping forwards. We have some of those components but not the lot and until then we will continue to be one quarter wonders.

On the upside get the game plan right (may need different players) and we will be millionaires. Hope I live to see it.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

7 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Agree - but in spite of all the negatives, we still managed to kick 14 goals, which is a winnable score. I don't know that our forward line is all that dysfunctional.

Petracca was really down/off today, if he'd managed a couple of goals, totally different story. But the (forward) player I found myself wishing was out there was Vandenberg.

True, and that isn't lost on me.  Having said that we got no goals from Trac, Hannan or JKH today, and we can't survive on goals from just Garlett alone in the small forward department.  If one of those guys bobs up with a couple of opportunistic goals then we win the game.  As it stands, both JKH and Hannan missed very gettable shots in the third term.

6 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Who knows Wise. I wouldn't be surprised.

At most other decent clubs, inexperienced players have to storm their way in via the Magoos with consistent solid performances before knocking more proven/experienced players out. Even if that extra experience is only one season or so. At the MFC we seem to allow no name juniors to quietly tap on the door and let them just cruise in. It's a huge mistake IMO that we seem to repeat over and over and which continually sees us topping up with "inexperienced" kids most weeks. It's certainly not the only reason why we lose so often, but it certainly doesn't help either.

When you continually select more "unproven" (at AFL level) inexperienced kids, in preference to others who might still be early in their careers and developing but have shown they can play at times already (even if a little patchy as you would expect from rookies like Stretch, Harmes and Kent) then i think you get what you deserve.

In the end we chose a no name untried player over three players that have shown they can contribute and play reasonably good AFL footy sometimes. I simply don't get or trust this FD anymore. They have selected their way into far too many losses this year to have any credibility in my eyes.

That's a little over the top, but I get the sentiment.  Kent, Harmes, Stretch and even Kennedy have been patchy at best for most of the season, and I guess the FD felt that JKH's summer deserve a run in the seniors.  It hasn't worked, but the others haven't been banging the door down to take his spot.  One of them will get it this week.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

1 minute ago, bing181 said:

Can't be underestimated. We lost to a vastly more experienced and composed team. They may be getting a bit rusty round the edges, but there's so much shared experience in that team, they read each other's play so well, they just seem to know what their team mates are going to do with the ball in any given situation.

Us on the other hand, are the reverse. People complaining about those handballs to players standing still or out of position -often, it's not the fault of the handballer, but the handballee: time and time again I just felt that the ball was handballed to someone who wasn't expecting it, or ready for it, yet alone thinking about what they were going to do with it once they'd received it.

It isn't a question of competence of ability, it's a question of experience. Which will come in time. Just going to be frustrating along the way.

Their set ups were second to none

Every player knew their position and zoned beautifully

Experience that comes from old heads marshalling the young uns' on the field

[Maldonboy38 6,406]

I am as ticked off as the next Dees supportere, but if I hear one more time how the umps were against us, I will scream. Roughead got free kicks in a way I would be screaming for if it were Hogan. The umps made some errors, missed some in packs where 20 players were piling in, and gave us a couple of good ones on the way through. Roughead is simply a bloody good footballer who often plays in front.

We lost because of the same reasons we have lost most games in the last 10 years - poor unpressured skills, handballing to stationary targets, and bad decisions in crucial moments. 

[bing181 9,328]

Liked Sam Frost's game today. Yes, he butchered it a bit, and got caught out a couple of times, but he's starting to regularly get his hands on it. Give him a year or two  - though feel like you could say that about half the team.

Petracca having a quiet(ish) day didn't help, and getting hard to see how we can have both Hannan and JKH in the same side - that's one "project" player too many. I was happy for JKH to be given the chance, but after 3 games, time for him to develop his craft in the magoos. Hannan feels like a limited player to me, certainly once the ball hits the ground.

But I don't really see that changing those two does more than shuffle the deck chairs, and we didn't lose just because of them. Main issue is that it's going to be a slog without Gawn or Spencer. Pedersen just isn't tall enough, and opposition teams will just play to exploit that weakness. As we saw today.

[dimmy 1,308]

4 minutes ago, olisik said:

JKH, Hannan and OMac are not AFL standard.

We are trying to brood players who are not ready and it is poor judgement by the Match Comittee

I possibly agree with JKH unfortunately he is not clan enough with his ball handling. Hannan shows glimpses ,but is still finding his feet. He is only a handful of games experience. OMac led us in 1% had 7 or 8 marks , 17 possessions against a side that has the remnants of a great side. Get off  his back !! He has some weaknesses, but he will blossom into a really good defender.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

17 minutes ago, Abe said:

3-4 

2x close losses to hawks and dockers, should have won both, 

dominated cats but didn't kick straight 

injuries saved the tigers 

we are much better than our record suggests but our consistency is the big issue. 

as frustrating as it is to lose, posters who don't see the improvement either don't know much about footy or they're letting their emotions talk. 

We are good enough to beat the crows if we play four quarters 

Abe we will get walloped by the Crows. We are simply too easy to beat upstairs let alone on the park and we don't have a rucking division. And they kick directly and break lines. Something we only seem to do when we get behind far enough and the game seems almost gone. [censored] footy.....you are kidding yourself if you think we are improving after that rubbish today. That was just another one of our many "one step forward, two steps back" progress for the club that we've been seeing now since 2008/2009.

[Lord Travis 10,763]

Today was a bad loss, lost that game purely from not turning up to play. How you can come up and get jumped by the team on the bottom of the ladder is behind me. They should've walked onto that ground ready to boost percentage and show the competition they are a serious football team. Instead they are losing from the opening bounce and you could see within a few minutes that lots of the players out there couldn't care less. 

Being competitive is no longer acceptable. This group is now behind where it was last year despite having an easier fixture without leaving Melbourne for two months. Really disappointing that 2017 seems to be another 'development' year without playing finals. This list is capable of playing top quality football. Why can't the coaches get them to do it for a full game. They are professional athletes who spend their lives training and preparing, why can't they do the job they're employed to do?

Next week JKH has to go. Kent straight in. JKH gives no defensive pressure, another 0 tackle game. Difference between him and Kent is JKH doesn't hit the scoreboard, ever. At least Kent kicks a few goals even if his defensive pressure is inconsistent. Waste of a spot out there. Don't wanna see him in red and blue again. 

[Daily Dose of Demons 155]

If I see any of these four things next week, I think that's enough Melbourne for me this year.

1. Jesse Hogan just stand there and call for the ball to be kicked on his head. Why the coaches don't tell him to lead is beyond me, he just gets spoiled every time trying to take a miracle pack mark. 

2. All the defenders just at the footy at once. Why the f%@k does no one stay down??? Hawthorn where able to kick about 4 of easiest goals without a Melbourne player insight as it fell into their lap.

3. A player leaving their man to chase a player that's already being chased. Happened so many times today just got sucked in ball watching and gave hawthron an easy outlet handball or kick. 

4. JKH pull on a Melbourne jumper. What the actual f@*# does he offer. I reckon you could pick someone out of the crowd who would have more impact. He can't tackle, can't mark, can't kick, doesn't kick goals. And the statistician taking down pressure acts have to watching a different game nothing about JKH is pressuring or effective. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 minute ago, Rusty Nails said:

Abe we will get walloped by the Crows. We are simply too easy to beat upstairs let alone on the park and we don't have a rucking division. And they kick directly and break lines. Something we only seem to do when we get behind far enough and the game seems almost gone. [censored] footy.....you are kidding yourself if you think we are improving after that rubbish today. That was just another one of our many "one step forward, two steps back" progress for the club that we've been seeing now since 2008/2009.

No we won't, and you can quote me on that.

[Devil In Disguise 2,278]

I'm feeling better now. Just saw that Freo had beaten The Scum.

[xarronn 384]

37 minutes ago, ENYAW said:

It is time for plan "b" support the women's team at least they have a 5-2 win loss ratio. Go Ladies.

Who do they play next week?

[bing181 9,328]

3 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Experience that comes from old heads marshalling the young uns' on the field

We have some old heads as well, but the likes of Jones, Hibberd, Lewis and Vince have now played how many games together ... is it 2?

That core group of Hawthorn senior players must have 100's of games together.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Their set ups were second to none

Every player knew their position and zoned beautifully

Experience that comes from old heads marshalling the young uns' on the field

Lewis's "inside" knowledge worked a treat today!

[praha 11,240]

this is a very weird team.

We Have inefficient players across the ground and lack forward cohesion yet still manage winnable scores. 

We don't have a ruckman but our clearance factor is impressive.

We dominate possession but arent effective enough.

We green tick some boxes but get a big red stamp in others. 

We are actually getting a lot of the ball despite no dedicated ruckman. 

I see things changing for us in a very positive way but I've been immensely disappointed by our leaders. We're on the right track but occasionally find ourselves on the wrong one.

Not sure if we'll play finals but I'm still confident we'll go on a tear at some point this season and win 4-5 in a row.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

No we won't, and you can quote me on that.

Well it all depends on what we consider a walloping Wise. You might say 12 goals or more.  50 points or more is about what i would consider a jolly good flogging!

[QueensBirthday 186]

Just reading the thread. I was at the game and I don't understand all the hate directed at Bugg. He won a lot of one-on-one contests and moved to good positions to receive the mark exiting the backline. 

Anyone who disagrees watch the replay, you'll see his steadying influence.

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

11 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Given the talent and where we were at vs whorethorn coming into this match i would have to say that's our worst result since the Bongers match last year. We continually dish up this rubbish.  No wonder we haven't played finals in over 10 years.  As a club we are always FAR too happy with basic wins that should be par for the course like the one we saw last week, including at the selection table, and are never able to back up good wins with another 2 or 3 (or more!!) on the trot.

Cannot argue with that. 

Maybe it is time for the 40,000 shareholders to start getting angry at these predictable results. 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

1 minute ago, QueensBirthday said:

Just reading the thread. I was at the game and I don't understand all the hate directed at Bugg. He won a lot of one-on-one contests and moved to good positions to receive the mark exiting the backline. 

Anyone who disagrees watch the replay, you'll see his steadying influence.

And then what happened? He played a nothing game and didn't threaten or make our attacks dangerous. To not kick a goal from 30m out summed it up.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Cannot argue with that. 

Maybe it is time for the 40,000 shareholders to start getting angry at these predictable results. 

What's your plan?