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The Petracca v McCartin debate reprised

Whispering_Jack
Whispering_Jack
in Melbourne Demons

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Saints might get another crack at a #1 pick as early as this year :)

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    7 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

    Even as a forward Petracca is ahead of McCartin.

    Petracca is exactly the type of player we need in the midfield at the moment. He is effective with ball in hand - something many of our mids aren't. Petracca actually does something with the football when he has it. I hope he starts in the midfield along with Oliver and Salem or Jones.

    For me, our ideal future midfield is Oliver, Salem, Petracca, with Brayshaw on a half back flank and rotating into the middle, as Petracca goes forward. That is some serious talent, good ball use and x-factor. They could be our Mitchell, Lewis and Hodge. If we can get another A grade mid from elsewhere that takes the pressure of these guys as they develop, we are going to have a seriously A grade midfield in 2-3 seasons. 

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    When we've finished this thread let have:

    1.  Watts v NicNat

    2.  Wines v Toumpas

    3.  Martin v Trengove

    4.  Morton v Dangerfield

    5.  Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott v Fyfe

    At least there is a defining difference with the McCartin v Petracca debate.

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    1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

    When we've finished this thread let have:

    1.  Watts v NicNat

    2.  Wines v Toumpas

    3.  Martin v Trengove

    4.  Morton v Dangerfield

    5.  Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott v Fyfe

    At least there is a defining difference with the McCartin v Petracca debate.

    You left out Kelly v Tyson/Salem.

    And Satyricon v DeeSpencer

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    16 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

    When we've finished this thread let have:

    1.  Watts v NicNat

    2.  Wines v Toumpas

    3.  Martin v Trengove

    4.  Morton v Dangerfield

    5.  Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott v Fyfe

    At least there is a defining difference with the McCartin v Petracca debate.

    Those match ups 1-5 make me wince. Watts and NicNat would be at least a draw. The others 100 point thrashings.

    Edited by america de cali

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    5 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

    When we've finished this thread let have:

    1.  Watts v NicNat

    2.  Wines v Toumpas

    3.  Martin v Trengove

    4.  Morton v Dangerfield

    5.  Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott v Fyfe

    At least there is a defining difference with the McCartin v Petracca debate.

    Nic Nat has one of the best highlight reels ever but is remarkably overrated. 

    By the end of their careers I reckon Watts will be well ahead

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    9 minutes ago, fndee said:

    Nic Nat has one of the best highlight reels ever but is remarkably overrated. 

    By the end of their careers I reckon Watts will be well ahead

    I reckon Nic Nat has  hit his ceiling.

    Jack still getting better.

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    • Like 3
    1 hour ago, Vogon Poetry said:

    When we've finished this thread let have:

    1.  Watts v NicNat

    2.  Wines v Toumpas

    3.  Martin v Trengove

    4.  Morton v Dangerfield

    5.  Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott v Fyfe

    At least there is a defining difference with the McCartin v Petracca debate.

     

    20 minutes ago, fndee said:

    Nic Nat has one of the best highlight reels ever but is remarkably overrated. 

    By the end of their careers I reckon Watts will be well ahead

     

    9 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

    I reckon Nic Nat has  hit his ceiling.

    Jack still getting better.

    "Your wish is our command, VP!"

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    •  

    3 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

    CC, I remember him posting on here shortly after.

    He must be so proud of his work

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    15 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

    CC, I remember him posting on here shortly after.

    Gotta admit, I loved it when he posted on here and kept us informed. 

    As for CC or BP?

    CC by a long way. People are quick to remember the bad picks but he had some good ones too with the picks at his disposal.

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    3 minutes ago, Night Crawler said:

    Gotta admit, I loved it when he posted on here and kept us informed. 

    As for CC or BP?

    CC by a long way. People are quick to remember the bad picks but he had some good ones too with the picks at his disposal.

    I wasn't comparing them. 

    Both of them left stains on the club we are still cleaning

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    • Like 1

    The year we got Watts we also missed some great opportunities further down.

    We dudded with Bleese, Strauss and Bennell.

    We could have had Ballantyne, Shuey, D Beames, Sloane, M Walters, Zaharakis and Hannebery and a stack of other current good players. All these players came after Strauss and Bleese.

    We did get lucky with Jetta at pick 51.

    Edited by america de cali

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    • Like 1

    There is waaaaaaay too much premature back patting going on here.

    I too am very happy that the Saints went for McCartin over Petracca, however it's too early in their respective careers to call it a win and it's definitely too early to call MacCartin a dud pick.  

    We're sounding a little bit like:

    Fremantle supporters over Rhys Palmer.

    Carlton supporters over Matthew Kreuzer.

    Brisbane supporters over Daniel Rich.

    Port supporters over John Butcher.

    Melbourne supporters over Gysberts, Morton, Grimes, etc.

    and, dare I say, West Coast supporters over NicNat...

     

    Petracca will be a star, but it's too early to scream it from the rooftops.

    Give them all (Brayshaw included) time and an injury free run at it.  I'd take Paddy McCartin at the Dees in a heartbeat!

     

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    As a reluctant expert - I'd say post #240 is spot on - well said @TeamPlayedFine39 - aside from having Paddy, I'd rather not...list clogger...

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    I'm more interested in the McCartin vs Weed comparison. We missed out on the big guy we thought we'd get, and a year later we do a trade to get a big time early pick and take Weed (who we may not have gone for had we had McCartin). Right now neither has done anything, and McCartin has 12 more months in the system.

    For what it's worth, I'd still pay a good price for Paddy. I think it comes down to having "types" of KP forwards, in the same way we have types of midfielders (fast outside vs in and under). To me, Hogan does everything. Gets up the ground, crashes packs, leads, always has a lighter handy...

    I'm not saying 2x Hogan wouldn't be Amazing. But realistically if we had two Hogans, that would be a huge chunk of our cap, and one would get poached. I think it's the right plan to have 3 contrasting players. That's why we went for the Adelaide Tom Lynch. Can do all roles but is best when he's using his engine and being the link man for Betts and Walker.

    How does this relate to Weed and McCartin? Both are lead up forwards. Weed is looking disastrous this last couple of weeks because it's all he does. Yes, he's light framed so we give him a pass... but what worries me is he's only got that lead up, mark, turn, goal skill. He doesn't bring anything else to the game. Is McCartin the same? But taller and heavier? Neither is doing well, but I'd be interested to see which one of the two people prefer going forward... taking parochialism out of it for a second. What if Saints offered us McCartin for Weed, hypothetically?

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    • Like 1
    50 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

    Weed is looking disastrous this last couple of weeks because it's all he does. Yes, he's light framed so we give him a pass... but what worries me is he's only got that lead up, mark, turn, goal skill. He doesn't bring anything else to the game. 

    He's very brave in the air and will crash packs when he gets bigger, but it's not "all he has".

    You either didn't see or have forgotten his first game against Hawthorn in round 20 last year.  Some of his linking handballs up the ground were excellent and showed that his ground skills and decision making were very good.  He had 11 handballs that day.

    Saying "he's only got" when you have such a small sample size for a very young key forward is close minded.  I think he'll have a nicely rounded game. 

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    weed's hands have looked good i thought. but at the moment he's not getting his hands on it.

    mccartin doesn't get involved at the moment either, but he's significantly bigger than weideman at this stage.

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    42 minutes ago, ProDee said:

    He's very brave in the air and will crash packs when he gets bigger, but it's not "all he has".

    You either didn't see or have forgotten his first game against Hawthorn in round 20 last year.  Some of his linking handballs up the ground were excellent and showed that his ground skills and decision making were very good.  He had 11 handballs that day.

    Saying "he's only got" when you have such a small sample size for a very young key forward is close minded.  I think he'll have a nicely rounded game. 

    His handballs were standard handballs, nothing more, nothing less. For much of the game he was also opposed to a first gamer (he did have Gibson at times).

    I think if you look back on his stats prior to joining the AFL you will also see that he was a low possession, low mark player. 

    At this stage his attributes are those of a giant KPP. In the mould of a Hawkins, Boyd, Patton. The problem is he will never be that big.

    1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

    I'm more interested in the McCartin vs Weed comparison. We missed out on the big guy we thought we'd get, and a year later we do a trade to get a big time early pick and take Weed (who we may not have gone for had we had McCartin). Right now neither has done anything, and McCartin has 12 more months in the system.

    For what it's worth, I'd still pay a good price for Paddy. I think it comes down to having "types" of KP forwards, in the same way we have types of midfielders (fast outside vs in and under). To me, Hogan does everything. Gets up the ground, crashes packs, leads, always has a lighter handy...

    I'm not saying 2x Hogan wouldn't be Amazing. But realistically if we had two Hogans, that would be a huge chunk of our cap, and one would get poached. I think it's the right plan to have 3 contrasting players. That's why we went for the Adelaide Tom Lynch. Can do all roles but is best when he's using his engine and being the link man for Betts and Walker.

    How does this relate to Weed and McCartin? Both are lead up forwards. Weed is looking disastrous this last couple of weeks because it's all he does. Yes, he's light framed so we give him a pass... but what worries me is he's only got that lead up, mark, turn, goal skill. He doesn't bring anything else to the game. Is McCartin the same? But taller and heavier? Neither is doing well, but I'd be interested to see which one of the two people prefer going forward... taking parochialism out of it for a second. What if Saints offered us McCartin for Weed, hypothetically?

    Interesting way of looking at it. I actually have a very different take on it and query why we have gone need specific with such an early pick. It seems like Luke Molan, Lucas Cook all over again. Some very handy smaller types taken just after Weideman in his draft.

    Then there is also this years draft to take into account as we forced our way out of it because we were so determined to draft a KPP. 

     

     

     

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    2 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

    His handballs were standard handballs, nothing more, nothing less. For much of the game he was also opposed to a first gamer (he did have Gibson at times).

    I think if you look back on his stats prior to joining the AFL you will also see that he was a low possession, low mark player. 

    At this stage his attributes are those of a giant KPP. In the mould of a Hawkins, Boyd, Patton. The problem is he will never be that big.

    Disagree.  A post that lacks insight.

    He read the play well and made good decisions under the pressure of his first game.  Goog handballs, good decisions, good reading of the play.

    He's a nice mover and will be a very good player by the time he's 23.

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    • Like 4
    23 minutes ago, ProDee said:

    Disagree.  A post that lacks insight.

    He read the play well and made good decisions under the pressure of his first game.  Goog handballs, good decisions, good reading of the play.

    He's a nice mover and will be a very good player by the time he's 23.

    Reckon we might see him develop in a similar fashion to big Max.

    Seemed very "meh", until one day he just started pulling in everything, and hasn't looked back.

     

    Might be at least another full season or so, at a guess.

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    Weid needs patience and support. He'll make it.

    Needs more muscle and further development both at Casey and in the seniors. Has good hands, tries to position himself well at the front of packs (despite getting outbodied), has a good set shot routine and can kick well either foot.

    Weid wont be the competative beast that Hogan is, probably wont have the tank to do what he does, but he compliments Hogan well. Weid's strengths will be his leading patterns, reach and good hands, and goal awareness.

    Looking forward, I'd rather have him than Paddy.

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    Weed needs time at Casey...lots in gym... Occasionally on the G.

    Yes like Max..no overnight star here

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    • Like 1
    58 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

    Weed needs time at Casey...lots in gym... Occasionally on the G.

    Yes like Max..no overnight star here

    They knew they were getting a project player when they picked Weed. I really like what I see from him - most of the time he competes in the air and brings the ball to ground. He positions fairly well at the front of the contest too but isn't strong or confident enough to pull in the mark. His intensity can wane a bit too, but that's part and parcel for a young player trying to build a tank and learn the pace of the game.

    There are good signs, but it'll just take time for the lad to mature and build his body.

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