The Petracca v McCartin debate reprised

[Whispering_Jack 30,019]

Following Melbourne's win over St Kilda last week, a poster on Saintsational sparked some debate with this offering:-

"Petracca is a gun who will be a superstar of the competition for the next dozen years. McCartin is an injury-prone, under-sized key forward who doesn't kick goals. He can take a great grab, but does little else. We are having to try to turn him into a lead-up forward because he isn't good enough in the goalsquare.

I know hind sight is a beautiful thing, but there have been few more important decisions that the club has had to make over the last 6-7 years. It was crucial that we picked well at the 2014 draft. With the number one pick it was our biggest opportunity to pick up a star for the next generation: our next Riewoldt, Goddard or (dare I say it) Judd.

From the media reports at the time Petracca was the clear number one choice in the lead up to that draft. If we were drafting on ability instead of perceived need it was a no-brainer. I understand our logic - we thought we needed a key forward - but McCartin is no Tony Lockett.

I say this with all due respect to McCartin himself who seems a great young guy, and to our recruiting team who has generally done a great job over the last five years, but sometimes mistakes are made, and when they are we have to recognise them, deal with them, and only then can we move on.

I think McCartin can and probably will be a really good player for us, but he won't give us what Petracca would have.

As ever, I am happy to be proven wrong."

I don't think he will be proven wrong but it's far too early to write off McCartin. Key forwards take their time in development.

The discussion however, did mirror some of the standard debate generated here whenever we look at failed draft selections from the past.

[Hampton 22 519]

Thanks for alerting us to this well-written, thought provoking article WJ. 

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,166]

I think he's well balanced. Accepts McCartin injuries aside will probably be a good player. The problem is they saw a massive whole in their list and just plugged it with the number 1 pick who best fitted need rather than chasing need later in the draft or through trade. It is pretty obvious Trac has special traits that you expect with a top pick and only his body or his application wil stop him being elite. The issue is with McCartin he will at best be a meat and potatoes good player. 

Would be an interesting discussion if they had taken Wright instead.

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

Good post. Somehow get the feeling though that even if McCartin just turns into just a good AFL footballer he'll never cop the same level of criticism as Watts did even though it's a very similar debate. 

[brendan 3,436]

I'm glad the choice was taken out of our hands for once, it couldn't have worked out any better for us 

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

It is very early days and Paddy has had his fair share of injuries that have no doubt held him back but I think of him as a poor mans Jesse Hogan. McCartin is a good mark but not as good as Hogan, Hogan has better hands, a bigger engine that allows him to play up the ground (and in the centre now) and Jesse's reading of the play/footy IQ is off the charts. They have a similar strike rate when kicking for goal. 

Overall you can imagine MCartin will be a good footballer so this pick isn't in the Toumpas/Wines league but would they have been better choosing Petracca? Absolutely 

[dazzledavey36 54,861]

At the time Bruce and Membrey were no names. Riewoldt was supposedly on his last legs and it was a no brainer that they needed a full forward. That came on the back of the Saints throwing huge dollars at Tom Boyd.

Hindsight is wonderful but if the draft was on right now the saints would take Petracca in a heart beat knowing Bruce and Membrey are established key forwards.

My big worry is McCartin. I thought in the JTL series he looked too overweight and im not surprised he is having hamstribg issues. 

Overlooking Petracca i think will eventually haunt them like it did with Wines for us. Alan Richardson is close family friends with the Petraccas  and like Todd Viney decided against going down the safe option and took the risk.

Who knows if it will pay off.

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by dazzledavey36

[Dee-licious 1,949]

Interesting. At the time we were into McCartin (as Roos said we would have taken 2 of the top 3) and also Lever which we had rated at 5 (remember Heeney would have been in there). McCartin would have filled our hole at full forward that we are now filling with Weiderman. Saints at that time had no Bruce, no Membry, and an aging Nick (didn't he turn it around) so I understand when there was only a little bit between the 2, you go the guy who you really need. Plus they were worried about Trac's arrogance (I personally love it). 

 

For dees supporters, the choice between Petracca and Weiderman or McCartin and Curnow/Milera is a no brainer to me. I think Weid will be better than McCartin as a key forward and I know Trac will be the pick of the lot. Gee it is good being on the end of good drafting for once! 

[sisso 2,580]

I reckon Trac is already one of our most important players, his explosiveness and zone busting long kicks into the forward line are real weapons. He's also a brilliant overhead mark, one out he will beat a lot of players in the air this season.

 

Haven't seen enough of McCartin to make a call on him, just hasn't managed to get himself on the park enough....but taking a shortish key position player with diabetes who doesn't display elite fitness and conditioning at #1 is a big risk.

[dee-tox 4,835]

McCartin is nowhere near fit enough at the moment to play AFL. 

[whatwhat say what 22,742]

i still think mccartin is going to be a very good player - he reads the flight of the ball well and is a terrific mark, but at this stage he simply doesn't look anything like fit enough to play afl-level football.

the concussion issue is a massive concern tho.

i would ask whether it's worth saints re-tooling him as someone who can learn the trade as a defender first, but his leading patterns and the like are actually pretty good; he doesn't need to follow good forwards around learning where and when to run, cos it seems pretty instinctual to him.

so at the moment he's just a bit of an overweight key forward - and make no mistake, i think he'll end up a better forward than bruce or membrey, the latter of whom is a classic undersized third tall and the former who is a hit-and-miss player.

fwiw, i am so very, very happy with weideman. once he starts clunking the marks he's getting his hands to - hopefully this week against the blues - he's going to be a really strong aerial threat who is a pearler of a kick both at goal and around the ground.

petracca has the arrogance of stringer and neck tatts and hopefully will be better than both.

Edited March 31, 2017 by DemonAndrew

[DeeZee 7,378]

Petracca will be a superstar of the highest order, where as McCartin might develop into a very good player.

[wretched.sylph 164]

No way is Petracca arrogant. He is certainly confident, which is a good thing, but not arrogant.

[wretched.sylph 164]

2 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Petracca will be a superstar of the highest order, where as McCartin might develop into a very good player.

That's better.

VFL standard at the moment.

 

 

*being cheeky.

[Ted Lasso 19,507]

I think paddy will become a good player in time, probably not elite but a good player. 

Petracca is already a good player and looks well on the way to being elite. 

But they needed a key forward at the Time and we needed mids. 

[Deestroy All 14,264]

Age old debate of needs v best available. 

They went with needs. Not knowing that Bruce and Membry would come on as goalkickers. 

What they did know was that Petracca has all the talent in the world, and they knew what their midfield did and didn't have and what was developing. 

When I add all that up they made a mistake. They overrated their midfield. They could have Josh Kennedy at FF and it wouldn't help if the midfield can't get it to him.

Petracca is built for the modern game, I'm not so sure McCartin is. Saints would probably even be better off with Trac at FF. 

[Hogans Heroe"s 16]

Can't see McCartin getting to Petracca's level anytime soon. Just a little of the pace of AFL for now.

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Hogans Heroe"s

[Dante 2,739]

I only saw the highlights package of McCartin prior to the draft and he looked like one of those players that would always have trouble with his weight and this seems to be the case, this and the Diabetes should have been a warning, a number one draft pick is too valuable to take a chance with.

Petracca will just get better and better and he will be our game breaker, he's got an ego but most top players have, it's a self belief that I'd hope all our young kids have got. 

 

 

[praha 11,240]

This can't be real. He doesn't mention that St Kilda beat us 14 times in a row.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

I recall that there were queries around Petracca's attitude and fitness when we drafted him and the Saints were laughing that they'd dodged a bullet.  I'm not so sure it was a no brainer as many think.

Roos is on record of saying we'll take 2 of Brayshaw, McCartin and Petracca.  I'm not sure you can be too critical of the Saints.

Having said all that I'm exceptionally happy with where we find ourselves.

 

 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Two young, talented players still learning the game. One is fit and ready to explode, the other tall and still sorting his body out. It would be better to review this in another 2-3 years. Whilst the Trac looks ready to star, he doesn't exactly have multiple BOGs that prove he's there yet. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Moonshadow

[junk 342]

Interesting comparison but it is early days for both players,so far Petracca is the winner. I think for took Hunt in the same year,earlier on he suffered from injuries and has turned out to becoming a useful player for us. We could of chosen Wines instead of Doupas,(Doups was damaged goods when we picked him up) we could have chosen the Bont or Cripps over Brayshaw. So the Bomp is a clear cut winner followed by Cripps thou Brayshaw isn't too bad of a player. As comparisons go we pick up Oliver over Parish,so  our scouts got that one right.

[Ted Lasso 19,507]

15 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I recall that there were queries around Petracca's attitude and fitness when we drafted him and the Saints were laughing that they'd dodged a bullet.  I'm not so sure it was a no brainer as many think.

Roos is on record of saying we'll take 2 of Brayshaw, McCartin and Petracca.  I'm not sure you can be too critical of the Saints.

Having said all that I'm exceptionally happy with where we find ourselves.

 

 

Interestingly hawthorn people who had track training there in his under age year said his attitude was the best of all the young players they've seen and they were shocked he didn't go pick 1. 

I remember asking at the time if they were aware of any attitude issues, and they said outside of him being quite cocky/arrogant there wasn't so maybe it's a rumour we spread to get him at pick 2

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

If St Kilda wanted a key forward they should have selected Peter Wright.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

6 minutes ago, ENYAW said:

Interesting comparison but it is early days for both players,so far Petracca is the winner. I think for took Hunt in the same year,earlier on he suffered from injuries and has turned out to becoming a useful player for us. We could of chosen Wines instead of Doupas,(Doups was damaged goods when we picked him up) we could have chosen the Bont or Cripps over Brayshaw. So the Bomp is a clear cut winner followed by Cripps thou Brayshaw isn't too bad of a player. As comparisons go we pick up Oliver over Parish,so  our scouts got that one right.

The Bont was previous year to Gus and Trac ENYAW. We had no pick to take him, unless you are referring to the mini draft pick where we got Hogan.