Training - Thursday 5th January, 2017

[Little Goffy 14,463]

Looking at those and other Jayden Hunt highlights, and paying closer attention than just the excitement during a game, is very satisfying.

Goes up to contest marks without fear, plays on boldly, has vision to make meaningful long kicks, runs not only fast but smart with changes in direction and shifts of body position anticipating the next move of those around him.

So, what does he need to tidy up to become outright first-class? A bit more fitness to rack up a few more uncontested possessions and build a full four-quarter presence, and a little more strength to make the most of his marking instinct. That's about it really?

[hemingway 7,615]

3 hours ago, binman said:

We have a real beauty there.

Watching these Hunt highlights  really reinforced how quick he is but also as you say how well he reads the ball. He uses these skills in tandem to cover loose men so well, a skill that is critical in the modern game with its use of zones. he is super gutsy as well.

There has been a bit of talk about Alan Johnson in the favorite and best players threads and in some respects Hunt shares some similar traits. There are a couple of very short bits of AJ play in this video but they demonstrate my point a little bit, particularly his dash.

agreed binman, both dashers but johnno was a superb long and accurate kick on the run. many will remember those long goals on the burst.. 

[Deeoldfart 8,005]

1 hour ago, Vogon Poetry said:

If anyone can give feedback on Oliver I'd be interested. Main group? How was his running?  

Clarrie did the full session with the main group and was pretty active in most of the drills, including (apparently) a bit of 'push and shove' at the other end of the ground to me. There was a series of hard run throughs to finish the session, and he struggled at or close to the back of the pack, as the lactic acid made things tough for him.  He's coming from a fair way back in the endurance stakes, and it might take a while imo.

[angrydee 842]

Chris Judd, in his autobiography, reckons these commando type camps are a complete waste of time; they only marginally help bonding, don't improve fitness and invariably lead to injuries.

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

17 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

Looking at those and other Jayden Hunt highlights, and paying closer attention than just the excitement during a game, is very satisfying.

Goes up to contest marks without fear, plays on boldly, has vision to make meaningful long kicks, runs not only fast but smart with changes in direction and shifts of body position anticipating the next move of those around him.

So, what does he need to tidy up to become outright first-class? A bit more fitness to rack up a few more uncontested possessions and build a full four-quarter presence, and a little more strength to make the most of his marking instinct. That's about it really?

Think your right, he's going to be one of those guys (dangerfield, fyfe etc - not saying he will be as good - just examples) who's going to do more than the occasional helicopter kick or even brain fade. However for me, for Hunt to jump up to the elite or become first class he needs to get more of the ball. He only cracked 20 possessions twice last year, and although he's not going to need 30+ weekly to be valuable if he were to average 20/21/22 touches then he'll make the jump. So another 5 to 6 more touches a game, that will naturally get him more involved and that's all he needs.

 

 

[rjay 24,889]

11 minutes ago, angrydee said:

Chris Judd, in his autobiography, reckons these commando type camps are a complete waste of time; they only marginally help bonding, don't improve fitness and invariably lead to injuries.

I would have to agree with Judd.

Looking at training pre Christmas there seemed to be a very strong bond between the players already.

To me this is about as big a waste of time as going to an Anthony Robbins spectacular.

[Copuchas 758]

2 hours ago, hardtack said:

I've got a few shots up on Facebook with public access...

 

Tim, thanks for the shots including my 10 month old wheaten terrier, Fergus.  I was standing next to you.  For the benefit of all, the pre-Xmas camp was at Mt Disappointment...near Whittlesea.  Sounds like it was quite a hitout and hopefully it will live in name only, other than for Dom Tyson!

Concur with the other comments posted.  For mine:  Viney more intense than ever, now that he's back in the main group, Oscar looks appreciably bulked up but still makes some basic execution errors, Watts made a couple of uncharacteristic errors (missed passes, dropped marks) and left the track early with some leg complaint, Spencer looks the best I've seen him in terms of executing the drills, Bull Smith's hands are a weapon, Keilty looks like he belongs, not sure Hulett is ultimately going to get there, Weideman noticeably bigger, Vandenberg moving much more freely, Garland shanked a kick or two (and I'm a fan).

Overall, a very positive hitout for the first day back in warm conditions with a northerly breeze.

 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Copuchas

[hardtack 10,517]

8 minutes ago, Copuchas said:

Tim, thanks for the shots including my 10 month old wheaten terrier, Fergus.  I was standing next to you.  For the benefit of all, the pre-Xmas camp was at Mt Disappointment...near Whittlesea.  Sounds like it was quite a hitout and hopefully it will live in name only, other than for Dom Tyson!

Concur with the other comments posted.  For mine:  Viney more intense than ever, now that he's back in the main group, Oscar looks appreciably bulked up but this makes some basic execution errors, Watts made a couple of uncharacteristic errors (missed passes, dropped marks) and left the track early with some leg complaint, Spencer looks the best I've seen him in terms of executing the drills, Bull Smith's are a weapon, Keilty looks like he belongs, not sure Hulett is ultimately going to get there, Weideman noticeably bigger, Vandenberg moving much more freely, Garland shanked a kick or two (and I'm a fan).

Overall, a very positive hitout for the first day back in warm conditions with a northerly breeze.

 

No worries...loved the dog. My son and I are down from Sydney until next Thursday and will get along to the training sessions on Monday and Wednesday of next week; so if I see you there I'll say hello. Max Gawn informed me that Mondays session will start later than normal (10 or 11?) and Wednesday is back to 9:30.

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

32 minutes ago, rjay said:

I would have to agree with Judd.

Looking at training pre Christmas there seemed to be a very strong bond between the players already.

To me this is about as big a waste of time as going to an Anthony Robbins spectacular.

Depends if you're looking at it from a bonding point of view or a decision making exercise. It's often easy to get away with things at training because their fresh and probably not going as hard as you would against an actual opponent, therefore their decision making should be slightly easier. I'm hoping by putting them under stress that'll help at the back end of an important game. Still will probably only make a small % difference.

[Satyriconhome 10,732]

51 minutes ago, rjay said:

I would have to agree with Judd.

Looking at training pre Christmas there seemed to be a very strong bond between the players already.

To me this is about as big a waste of time as going to an Anthony Robbins spectacular.

The players didn't think so, and they are the ones that matter, it wasn't at all about bonding, it was all about taking them to what they thought were their limits and taking them past it, put a negative slant on it if you wish to

Edited January 5, 2017 by Satyriconhome

[rjay 24,889]

14 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

The players didn't think so, and they are the ones that matter, it wasn't at all about bonding, it was all about taking them to what they thought were their limits and taking them past it, put a negative slant on it if you wish to

Most of these things give a bump straight after but then it's back to normal so it doesn't surprise me about the players reaction.

I'm more interested in the player who continually tests his limits during a game.

Someone who who is a 2 way runner, who works to his absolute max.

These sort of camps I find to be a bit of snake oil...happy to be proven wrong but of course impossible to set a KPI to prove it either way.

We will just beg to differ on this...

[Drunkn167 5,093]

24 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

The players didn't think so, and they are the ones that matter, it wasn't at all about bonding, it was all about taking them to what they thought were their limits and taking them past it, put a negative slant on it if you wish to

Exactly. It was to sure them just how far they can physically and mentally push themselves. Nothing to do with teamwork or fitness, if they weren't fit already they wouldn't have done to them what they did. 

[Gator 17,281]

Purely judging from photos I thought Watts, Petracca, and Gawn looked in great nick.

They all look really lean, but wiry/healthy strong, if you know what I mean.

I'm super excited by 2017.

[Gorgoroth 12,924]

How have Trenners and Ben Ken been going?

[Deeoldfart 8,005]

Forgot to mention Harmes in my earlier post.  He was involved in everything, and if today was any indication, his kicking has come a fair way since last season.   He was near the front in all the running.

....... and finally, allowing for my perpetual optimism, number 9 seemed to have markedly improved his agility.  Not sure about his pace, but certainly more agile imo.

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

I would have to agree with Judd.

Looking at training pre Christmas there seemed to be a very strong bond between the players already.

To me this is about as big a waste of time as going to an Anthony Robbins spectacular.

Agreed. Sleep depravation is way over rated. 

[DeeSpencer 25,486]

2 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Looking at those and other Jayden Hunt highlights, and paying closer attention than just the excitement during a game, is very satisfying.

Goes up to contest marks without fear, plays on boldly, has vision to make meaningful long kicks, runs not only fast but smart with changes in direction and shifts of body position anticipating the next move of those around him.

So, what does he need to tidy up to become outright first-class? A bit more fitness to rack up a few more uncontested possessions and build a full four-quarter presence, and a little more strength to make the most of his marking instinct. That's about it really?

Kicking,  kicking and more kicking. If he tidies it up and develops a bit more touch by foot then it's almost the skies the limit. His distance is good but needs to work on his consistency.

[McQueen 17,864]

43 minutes ago, rjay said:

Most of these things give a bump straight after but then it's back to normal so it doesn't surprise me about the players reaction.

I'm more interested in the player who continually tests his limits during a game.

Someone who who is a 2 way runner, who works to his absolute max.

These sort of camps I find to be a bit of snake oil...happy to be proven wrong but of course impossible to set a KPI to prove it either way.

We will just beg to differ on this...

I'm with you, rjay. The one I went on was in Lithgow back in 2010. Had ex SAS guys screaming in your face that you're a useless c$&t when being 'Patrol Leader' because your cohort is getting shot to pieces by snipers. One them had a nickname of 'Fifty' and an actual name of Callum (50 Cal rifle) which he thought was really cool. We got off to a bad start when I started calling him 'Low Cal' instead.. I thought it was hilarious, him not so much. We were starved and kept to about 6 hours sleep over 4 nights with lots of patrols.

At the end of the event when you're so hungry they let you have a hot shower and feed you huge fat T bone steak and several cold Froffies - then they shove a satisfaction survey under your nose (perfect timing, huh) and you're all la la with a belly full of beef and beer and you give the thumbs up ?. The course was grouse!

About a month later comes the realisation that it was a complete waste of time.

We had one bloke do his knee and another twist an ankle that resulted in LTI's.

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

1 minute ago, McQueen said:

I'm with you, rjay. The one I went on was in Lithgow back in 2010. Had ex SAS guys screaming in your face that you're a useless c$&t when being 'Patrol Leader' because your cohort is getting shot to pieces by snipers. One them had a nickname of 'Fifty' and an actual name of Callum (50 Cal rifle) which he thought was really cool. We got off to a bad start when I started calling him 'Low Cal' instead.. I thought it was hilarious, him not so much. We were starved and kept to about 6 hours sleep over 4 nights with lots of patrols.

At the end of the event when you're so hungry they let you have a hot shower and feed you huge fat T bone steak and several cold Froffies - then they shove a satisfaction survey under your nose (perfect timing, huh) and you're all la la with a belly full of beef and beer and you give the thumbs up ?. The course was grouse!

About a month later comes the realisation that it was a complete waste of time.

We had one bloke do his knee and another twist an ankle that resulted in LTI's.

Plastic Gratification forgotten very soon after...

i will be furious if Tyson has long term damage to his knee. 

A few years ago it was altitude training...

[Robot Devil 1,895]

10 hours ago, angrydee said:

Chris Judd, in his autobiography, reckons these commando type camps are a complete waste of time; they only marginally help bonding, don't improve fitness and invariably lead to injuries.

His commando camp must have focused on Chicken Wings and Eye Gouging so naturally it lead to injuries. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Robot Devil

[Satyriconhome 10,732]

40 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Agreed. Sleep depravation is way over rated. 

 Is sleep deprivation as well?

10 minutes ago, McQueen said:

I'm with you, rjay. The one I went on was in Lithgow back in 2010. Had ex SAS guys screaming in your face that you're a useless c$&t when being 'Patrol Leader' because your cohort is getting shot to pieces by snipers. One them had a nickname of 'Fifty' and an actual name of Callum (50 Cal rifle) which he thought was really cool. We got off to a bad start when I started calling him 'Low Cal' instead.. I thought it was hilarious, him not so much. We were starved and kept to about 6 hours sleep over 4 nights with lots of patrols.

At the end of the event when you're so hungry they let you have a hot shower and feed you huge fat T bone steak and several cold Froffies - then they shove a satisfaction survey under your nose (perfect timing, huh) and you're all la la with a belly full of beef and beer and you give the thumbs up ?. The course was grouse!

About a month later comes the realisation that it was a complete waste of time.

We had one bloke do his knee and another twist an ankle that resulted in LTI's.

So you obviously went with the mindset not to embrace what they were trying to achieve. 

Do you think the players went with the same mindset, I am sure Goodwin would be pleased to see that in players,

The ones I spoke to, note spoke to, said it was the hardest thing they have done but could see why they did it

If the result is one player, who has run himself into the ground on a wet day, finds it in himself to chase a loose ball and kick a goal that gets us four points then it will have been worth it

In speaking to both Goody and Macca, note speaking again, they not only want a team that is physically tough but also mentally, they obviously thought this exercise would benefit the players

Dom Tyson was not downbeat when I spoke to him, told me it was all cool, 4 to 6 weeks, approximately what Wagner has been doing since he did his at the end of November and he returns to full squad next week

 

 

[Demon trucker 1,800]

29 minutes ago, McQueen said:

I'm with you, rjay. The one I went on was in Lithgow back in 2010. Had ex SAS guys screaming in your face that you're a useless c$&t when being 'Patrol Leader' because your cohort is getting shot to pieces by snipers. One them had a nickname of 'Fifty' and an actual name of Callum (50 Cal rifle) which he thought was really cool. We got off to a bad start when I started calling him 'Low Cal' instead.. I thought it was hilarious, him not so much. We were starved and kept to about 6 hours sleep over 4 nights with lots of patrols.

At the end of the event when you're so hungry they let you have a hot shower and feed you huge fat T bone steak and several cold Froffies - then they shove a satisfaction survey under your nose (perfect timing, huh) and you're all la la with a belly full of beef and beer and you give the thumbs up ?. The course was grouse!

About a month later comes the realisation that it was a complete waste of time.

We had one bloke do his knee and another twist an ankle that resulted in LTI's.

I don't think the player's would have drunk loads of beer,  did not hurt Kennedy comandos

[Satyriconhome 10,732]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

...

Sorry to disappoint you but I was asked to reconsider my decision to provide a less jaundiced view of proceedings

This type of training can make you stronger mentally, it is your brain telling your body you can't do something, so if you know you are capable of going that extra step you will

I am all for anything, legal of course, that may give the team an edge, coz every team is striving for the same thing

Goody and Macca have the physicality now that they have been striving for,  now the mental strength needs to be instiled, which we have in some like Lewis, Jones, Viney, but we need in all 40+

The perceived mental fragility in the players is something supporters have been banging on about, when something different is tried to try and alleviate that perception, some whinge about that

I have done my 15 years in army browns and greens and loved every minute of it, sleep deprivation included

[Tough Kent 2,137]

Hi Saty,

Can you confirm that Dom did a quad and not a knee?

[Cards13 9,117]

5 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Saty, the camp was at Whittlesea

Jesus I thought we were out of financial trouble?! 

Its over if they ever have one in Romsey!