The OX slams 'crap' Demons.

[John Crow Batty 8,862]

3 minutes ago, praha said:

Well the problem is that we are actually at near full strength, and have been all year. Few injuries and plenty of talent knocking down the door from the VFL, but it makes little difference when we come up against teams that sit directly above us on the ladder (Port, Saints, Eagles this week). The likes of Richmond, Collingwood and North if you consider them a bottom 10 side have played better football for longer periods than we have. We notch up one win and then get absolutely smacked the following. Somehow, Carlton notched up 4 or 5 wins in a row and could very well finish above us on the ladder. Maybe it's just me but I can't remember a team in the modern era (1990-now) ever having such a major gap in performances in such short periods of time. Sure, Carlton and the Saints have been smacked a few times this year, but they've also gone through long periods where they have played at a really high standard and beaten some good teams. We switch on and off at a really concerning rate and to me I just can't quite understand it. I don't think it's a speed or pressure or hardness issue...well, it is, but I think what's driving that deficiency is 100% between the ears.

We played Neeld-era football on Sunday. It was a 10-goal loss had the Saints been switched on in the first (they weren't: go and watch the replay). Our leaders missed easy goals and stopped running IN THE SECOND QUARTER! 

"It is what it is."

What it is, is astonishing. I'm filthy after Sunday's loss. I really just want to go up to guys like TMac, N Jones, Watts, shake them as hard as I can and say, "AREN'T YOU SICK OF LOSING LIKE THIS!?"

Too many individuals who go into a shell. We play shocking team football atm. That's the stigma that infects a player's mind when they pull on a Melbourne jumper. It's not a "team" worth dying for.

Top post. Nothing has changed much since 2010. It must be tough for the players. Being richly rewarded for playing mediocre footy. Demetriou's jibe of us having no soul just keeps on resonating.

[Gator 17,290]

26 minutes ago, praha said:

Well the problem is that we are actually at near full strength, and have been all year. Few injuries and plenty of talent knocking down the door from the VFL, but it makes little difference when we come up against teams that sit directly above us on the ladder (Port, Saints, Eagles this week). The likes of Richmond, Collingwood and North if you consider them a bottom 10 side have played better football for longer periods than we have. We notch up one win and then get absolutely smacked the following. Somehow, Carlton notched up 4 or 5 wins in a row and could very well finish above us on the ladder. Maybe it's just me but I can't remember a team in the modern era (1990-now) ever having such a major gap in performances in such short periods of time. Sure, Carlton and the Saints have been smacked a few times this year, but they've also gone through long periods where they have played at a really high standard and beaten some good teams. We switch on and off at a really concerning rate and to me I just can't quite understand it. I don't think it's a speed or pressure or hardness issue...well, it is, but I think what's driving that deficiency is 100% between the ears.

We played Neeld-era football on Sunday. It was a 10-goal loss had the Saints been switched on in the first (they weren't: go and watch the replay). Our leaders missed easy goals and stopped running IN THE SECOND QUARTER! 

"It is what it is."

What it is, is astonishing. I'm filthy after Sunday's loss. I really just want to go up to guys like TMac, N Jones, Watts, shake them as hard as I can and say, "AREN'T YOU SICK OF LOSING LIKE THIS!?"

Too many individuals who go into a shell. We play shocking team football atm. That's the stigma that infects a player's mind when they pull on a Melbourne jumper. It's not a "team" worth dying for.

We're going to lose again this week. We're going to get run over, spread, mutilated. Because we're not a team that wins in Perth. It's just not what we do.

It's called "fielding the youngest and least experienced team in the competition more often than any other side in 2016".  Even more often than Brisbane, who are sitting on the grand total of one win.

As for "smackings" ?  We've had two losses over 40 points for the year and not one 10 goal loss.  Our worst being 55 points.  When is the last time we haven't had a loss by over 60 points ?

[beelzebub 23,313]

39 minutes ago, praha said:

Well the problem is that we are actually at near full strength, and have been all year. Few injuries and plenty of talent knocking down the door from the VFL, but it makes little difference when we come up against teams that sit directly above us on the ladder (Port, Saints, Eagles this week). The likes of Richmond, Collingwood and North if you consider them a bottom 10 side have played better football for longer periods than we have. We notch up one win and then get absolutely smacked the following. Somehow, Carlton notched up 4 or 5 wins in a row and could very well finish above us on the ladder. Maybe it's just me but I can't remember a team in the modern era (1990-now) ever having such a major gap in performances in such short periods of time. Sure, Carlton and the Saints have been smacked a few times this year, but they've also gone through long periods where they have played at a really high standard and beaten some good teams. We switch on and off at a really concerning rate and to me I just can't quite understand it. I don't think it's a speed or pressure or hardness issue...well, it is, but I think what's driving that deficiency is 100% between the ears.

We played Neeld-era football on Sunday. It was a 10-goal loss had the Saints been switched on in the first (they weren't: go and watch the replay). Our leaders missed easy goals and stopped running IN THE SECOND QUARTER! 

"It is what it is."

What it is, is astonishing. I'm filthy after Sunday's loss. I really just want to go up to guys like TMac, N Jones, Watts, shake them as hard as I can and say, "AREN'T YOU SICK OF LOSING LIKE THIS!?"

Too many individuals who go into a shell. We play shocking team football atm. That's the stigma that infects a player's mind when they pull on a Melbourne jumper. It's not a "team" worth dying for.

We're going to lose again this week. We're going to get run over, spread, mutilated. Because we're not a team that wins in Perth. It's just not what we do.

A very succinct post. We are all over the shop currently. How practically a whole team can go missing on so many occasions is a worry.

There must be something in the water at Melbourne........

[Fork 'em 6,983]

21 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

There must be something in the water at Melbourne........

Valium

[Wilson7 2,663]

On 20/07/2016 at 4:17 PM, HulkHogan said:

Attention seeking...

Give me a break

who made that pathetic gif ?

[junk 342]

Chris you lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink is one saying. How much more education do you think our players need before we become a finals side?

[Chris 2,892]

52 minutes ago, ENYAW said:

Chris you lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink is one saying. How much more education do you think our players need before we become a finals side?

Many of the team have had one year, many two years, and a few players have had more than two years. 

Not many teams are very successful when the majority of the team has had a couple of years of education. We are actually doing OK when you look at it that way.

If we aren't in the finals, or at the very least in calculations until the final round next year then I will be worried. 

One other thing, the younger generation react differently, for many reasons, to authority and sprays from the coach. Roos has alluded to this before when he talks about them wanting an education and the learn how to be better, management in good companies are clued onto this and management styles have changed to get the best out of people. That doesn't mean you can't have standards, or expect them to be adhered to, but it does change your approach to doing so. In essence the playing group will always be getting an education and striving to be better, that is if we wan't to keep improving. 

Edited July 22, 2016 by Chris

[old dee 23,782]

1 hour ago, Fork 'em said:

Valium

Noi That is for the supporters Fork 'em

[Satyriconhome 10,732]

4 hours ago, praha said:

What it is, is astonishing. I'm filthy after Sunday's loss. I really just want to go up to guys like TMac, N Jones, Watts, shake them as hard as I can and say, "AREN'T YOU SICK OF LOSING LIKE THIS!?"

Too many individuals who go into a shell. We play shocking team football atm. That's the stigma that infects a player's mind when they pull on a Melbourne jumper. It's not a "team" worth dying for.

We're going to lose again this week. We're going to get run over, spread, mutilated. Because we're not a team that wins in Perth. It's just not what we do.

So you don't take footy seriously at all then?.......It's footy..........of course the players feel the losses, if you don't think that then you have never played sport, we have a young inexperienced team, that has terrible patches of inconsistency, who says St Kilda who are much the same aren't going to get absolutely pummelled by the Bulldogs this weekend

Some time in the next season or two, the inexperienced team will finally click, we are coming from so far back, Roos said three years minimum to get the team anywhere near where it should be to be in finals, this is year 3, the players we want to keep going forward are being signed up, we have not been on the end of 70 point plus hidings (hopefully that won't happen this weekend), so in my mind we have improved, but being the most inexperienced side we are consistently inconsistent at he moment, but that will change

[What 18,810]

Ox was being kind when he called us crap. Last weeks game was beyond crap.

[Phadraig 760]

On 7/21/2016 at 6:21 PM, Nasher said:

I often wish I was as articulate as others that I read posts from.

I make you look like Martin Flanagan if that makes you feel any better Nasher

[Satyriconhome 10,732]

On 21/07/2016 at 6:21 PM, Nasher said:

I often wish I was as articulate as others that I read posts from.

You mean their ability to twist and turn to suit whichever way the discussion in a topic is going

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

12 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

You mean their ability to twist and turn to suit whichever way the discussion in a topic is going

I'll dunne teach yuh!!

[Nasher 33,607]

28 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

You mean their ability to twist and turn to suit whichever way the discussion in a topic is going

No, that's not at all what I meant.  If anything, that's what you've done, and I really hate it when people do that.

[Satyriconhome 10,732]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

No, that's not at all what I meant.  If anything, that's what you've done, and I really hate it when people do that.

Gee Nash the administration role is really taking a toll on you, articulate can also mean having joints or jointed segments, giving something the ability to twist and turn, it was a joke on language

[beelzebub 23,313]

10 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Gee Nash the administration role is really taking a toll on you, articulate can also mean having joints or jointed segments, giving something the ability to twist and turn, it was a joke on language

No it wasn't. Nice try, what with twisting and turning 

[Satyriconhome 10,732]

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

No it wasn't. Nice try, what with twisting and turning 

Now I am discombobulated

[P-man 13,366]

17 hours ago, ProDee said:

It's called "fielding the youngest and least experienced team in the competition more often than any other side in 2016".  Even more often than Brisbane, who are sitting on the grand total of one win.

As for "smackings" ?  We've had two losses over 40 points for the year and not one 10 goal loss.  Our worst being 55 points.  When is the last time we haven't had a loss by over 60 points ?

How did the Saints team rank for age and games experience? I know that going into the season their squad was ranked 13th in both areas, a couple of rankings above us. We're not exactly talking about Hawthorn here in terms of the gap. Roos' excuse about carry over from the Lyon era holding them in greater stead does not really wash with me. He's talking about a team that won the spoon in 2014.

I understand the logic to yours and Nash's arguments about the third rebuild and the state of the list, but surely a part of the club progressing is acknowledging when a loss is totally unacceptable, which is where that loss firmly sits. It was akin to the Carlton loss last year and the Essendon loss this year. That has to be acknowledged, which is basically what I felt Ox was doing amidst the ranting about player development. 

People tire of excuses after a while, in any walk of life. When there has been a different excuse to reel out every week for the past decade or so, eventually the question gets asked, how much of this is inbuilt into the club's psyche? To meekly allow St Kilda, a youngish team themselves, to miss about ten sitters in front of goal and still cast us aside on their way to an easy 6 goal victory is simply not good enough. You hope it isn't ingrained and results can be attributed to the reasons you and others have outlined, but skepticism is understandable.

The traditional Melbourne bounce back the week after an embarrassment is hopefully on the cards in Perth, but there has to be a lot more fight shown for the remainder of the season as a whole. If there isn't, I expect someone in Ox's position to once again label it not good enough, and be within his rights to do so. The club must be held accountable at every step if we are to get towards being even in the vicinity of a top four challenger.

[junk 342]

Chris,the Demons recieved a p.ss weak draw,we havn't beat anyone in the 8. (GWS was not in the 8 when we beat them).We havn't made enough progress I feel that would make most supporters happy. We don't have enough quality back up players.  I prefer a Captain that can give his players a "spray" for underperforming not one who says nothing.  The young players we picked up are of quality and should reap success quicker than the duds we picked up in the past. The MFC web site reflects the way that we perform,at times mushy,full of excuses and players coming out supprting those who are going to leave i.e Frawley,Howe,Rivers. Why do we do this ? It is a waste of energy. "Sweller" Brugan after match support is "crap",he  doesn't know anything about footy. ( soap may be his specialality). Time for plan "b" are the women doing well?

[Chris 2,892]

3 hours ago, P-man said:

How did the Saints team rank for age and games experience? I know that going into the season their squad was ranked 13th in both areas, a couple of rankings above us. We're not exactly talking about Hawthorn here in terms of the gap. Roos' excuse about carry over from the Lyon era holding them in greater stead does not really wash with me. He's talking about a team that won the spoon in 2014.

I understand the logic to yours and Nash's arguments about the third rebuild and the state of the list, but surely a part of the club progressing is acknowledging when a loss is totally unacceptable, which is where that loss firmly sits. It was akin to the Carlton loss last year and the Essendon loss this year. That has to be acknowledged, which is basically what I felt Ox was doing amidst the ranting about player development. 

People tire of excuses after a while, in any walk of life. When there has been a different excuse to reel out every week for the past decade or so, eventually the question gets asked, how much of this is inbuilt into the club's psyche? To meekly allow St Kilda, a youngish team themselves, to miss about ten sitters in front of goal and still cast us aside on their way to an easy 6 goal victory is simply not good enough. You hope it isn't ingrained and results can be attributed to the reasons you and others have outlined, but skepticism is understandable.

The traditional Melbourne bounce back the week after an embarrassment is hopefully on the cards in Perth, but there has to be a lot more fight shown for the remainder of the season as a whole. If there isn't, I expect someone in Ox's position to once again label it not good enough, and be within his rights to do so. The club must be held accountable at every step if we are to get towards being even in the vicinity of a top four challenger.

The saints were just over a year older and more experienced. Roos' comments on the lion Era are in reference to the older players they have who have lots of finals experience and can lead the team. We don't have that, certainly not to the same standard as the saints. 

[Chris 2,892]

1 hour ago, ENYAW said:

Chris,the Demons recieved a p.ss weak draw,we havn't beat anyone in the 8. (GWS was not in the 8 when we beat them).We havn't made enough progress I feel that would make most supporters happy. We don't have enough quality back up players.  I prefer a Captain that can give his players a "spray" for underperforming not one who says nothing.  The young players we picked up are of quality and should reap success quicker than the duds we picked up in the past. The MFC web site reflects the way that we perform,at times mushy,full of excuses and players coming out supprting those who are going to leave i.e Frawley,Howe,Rivers. Why do we do this ? It is a waste of energy. "Sweller" Brugan after match support is "crap",he  doesn't know anything about footy. ( soap may be his specialality). Time for plan "b" are the women doing well?

According to the champion data rankings of each draw we actually had the fourth hardest draw for the year (i think it was four, was definately in the top 6). I agree Jones could do more. You comment on the young players we have should reap faster success but don't want to give them time. We are younger than we were 2 or 3 years ago when we were winning 2 games a year, now we have won 7 and doubled our percentage with a younger group. That is real improvement. 

We are inconsistent, as all young teams are. If it doesn't improve in the next year or two then complain loudly, it is too early now, especially when our best pushes the best, as it has done this year. 

[Adam The God 30,131]

4 hours ago, P-man said:

How did the Saints team rank for age and games experience? I know that going into the season their squad was ranked 13th in both areas, a couple of rankings above us. We're not exactly talking about Hawthorn here in terms of the gap. Roos' excuse about carry over from the Lyon era holding them in greater stead does not really wash with me. He's talking about a team that won the spoon in 2014.

I understand the logic to yours and Nash's arguments about the third rebuild and the state of the list, but surely a part of the club progressing is acknowledging when a loss is totally unacceptable, which is where that loss firmly sits. It was akin to the Carlton loss last year and the Essendon loss this year. That has to be acknowledged, which is basically what I felt Ox was doing amidst the ranting about player development. 

People tire of excuses after a while, in any walk of life. When there has been a different excuse to reel out every week for the past decade or so, eventually the question gets asked, how much of this is inbuilt into the club's psyche? To meekly allow St Kilda, a youngish team themselves, to miss about ten sitters in front of goal and still cast us aside on their way to an easy 6 goal victory is simply not good enough. You hope it isn't ingrained and results can be attributed to the reasons you and others have outlined, but skepticism is understandable.

The traditional Melbourne bounce back the week after an embarrassment is hopefully on the cards in Perth, but there has to be a lot more fight shown for the remainder of the season as a whole. If there isn't, I expect someone in Ox's position to once again label it not good enough, and be within his rights to do so. The club must be held accountable at every step if we are to get towards being even in the vicinity of a top four challenger.

I agree to an extent, P, but I think this post assumes that the FD are going to sit on their hands behind closed doors. You can bet the players received a whack last week. But it would have been internal and as much as in the aftermath I would have liked Roos to acknowledge this, there's not a lot to be gained from it.

As for frustrated supporters voicing their frustration, I have no problem with it, so long as it at least has some thought behind it. The Ox rambled about list development. If there was one thing you couldn't knock us or Roos on over the past 3 seasons is list development.

Guys like Hunt, Wagner, (IMO) Omac and Jetta are obvious examples of players that have either come in and played their role straight away or have improved drastically off a low base.

[P-man 13,366]

1 minute ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

I agree to an extent, P, but I think this post assumes that the FD are going to sit on their hands behind closed doors. You can bet the players received a whack last week. But it would have been internal and as much as in the aftermath I would have liked Roos to acknowledge this, there's not a lot to be gained from it.

As for frustrated supporters voicing their frustration, I have no problem with it, so long as it at least has some thought behind it. The Ox rambled about list development. If there was one thing you couldn't knock us or Roos on over the past 3 seasons is list development.

Guys like Hunt, Wagner, (IMO) Omac and Jetta are obvious examples of players that have either come in and played their role straight away or have improved drastically off a low base.

The sounds coming out of the club this week suggest it was an intense review, as it should have been.

I don't ascribe to the theory that external pressure has no influence. I believe it does, and broader recognition of what is and isn't acceptable contributes towards getting to where we want to get to as a club. Part of that is saying last Sunday was well below expectation.

The acceptance of Melbourne as a perennial failure and disappointment has gone on for too long. I'm thankful we have a voice or two in the media who still care enough to set a higher expectation.

A couple of ill-considered remarks about development doesn't take away from what I interpeted as the main message: not good enough. It's a simple message but also an important one. Never moreso than right now when we are just starting to regain some respect.

 

[xarronn 380]

5 hours ago, P-man said:

How did the Saints team rank for age and games experience? I know that going into the season their squad was ranked 13th in both areas, a couple of rankings above us. We're not exactly talking about Hawthorn here in terms of the gap. Roos' excuse about carry over from the Lyon era holding them in greater stead does not really wash with me. He's talking about a team that won the spoon in 2014.

 

 

I'm not trying to support Roos statement, because I don't know if you can attribute it to Lyon, but in the interests of accuracy, the comparison in terms of performance and success of the two teams is chalk and cheese.

St. Kilda did finish last in 2014 with 4 wins, but that is a far cry from our performances:

Last in 2008, 2009 & 13

A total of 17 wins in 2008, 9, 12, 13 & 14.

A near record smashing in 2011, and huge losses in other years.

No more than 8 wins in any Year since 2006, (so far).

I know we have many new players, but even they have not really experienced significant success. Belief, must be a problem with this team.

[beelzebub 23,313]

21 minutes ago, xarronn said:

 

I'm not trying to support Roos statement, because I don't know if you can attribute it to Lyon, but in the interests of accuracy, the comparison in terms of performance and success of the two teams is chalk and cheese.

St. Kilda did finish last in 2014 with 4 wins, but that is a far cry from our performances:

Last in 2008, 2009 & 13

A total of 17 wins in 2008, 9, 12, 13 & 14.

A near record smashing in 2011, and huge losses in other years.

No more than 8 wins in any Year since 2006, (so far).

I know we have many new players, but even they have not really experienced significant success. Belief, must be a problem with this team.

as is leadership....cue...crickets !!