FAREWELL JACK GRIMES

[Moonshadow 17,675]

2 minutes ago, P-man said:

Don't get bogged down by that. I've said repeatedly I think he deserves a chance on merit. It's not simply about charity. But doing the right thing by the player does come into it.

Assuming Roos and Goodwin decide he's not part of our future and we don't have a big run of injuries this year, sentimentality would be the only reason to play him twice this year. The right thing is to do what's best for the team. He might get the two games, but that would be a hollow outcome IMO.

Having said that, I haven't seen him play this year at Casey, only on TV. Have you gone to many Casey games this year P-man? 

[Adzman 2,154]

Hard work deserves reward irrespective of his perceived limitations as a footballer. He has been sterling in the twos this season and should have been given a run.

[beelzebub 23,313]

29 minutes ago, Abe said:

I have heard there is a little bit of interest in grabbing Grimes as a free agent from at least two AFL clubs, not sure if either will go ahead but Essendrug and the Brisbane Lions are a chance to give him a lifeline and i really hope one of them does. 

That would make some sense. Both looking for cheap depth.

[spirit of norm smith 16,250]

I have seen Jack play 4 times at Casey and he definitely stands out as above the VFL standard. His tackling and disposal has improved.

I hope Jack is in this week. Deserves a chance. I still think he has a future in the red and blue.

 

[P-man 13,366]

52 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Assuming Roos and Goodwin decide he's not part of our future and we don't have a big run of injuries this year, sentimentality would be the only reason to play him twice this year. The right thing is to do what's best for the team. He might get the two games, but that would be a hollow outcome IMO.

Having said that, I haven't seen him play this year at Casey, only on TV. Have you gone to many Casey games this year P-man? 

Being in Canberra mate, I'm in the same boat. Would be getting to a few games if I was back in Melbs, but I have to resort to the match uploads and following the club and supporter reviews.

[Adam The God 30,112]

No doubt Grimes plays two more games this season, but people need to let go of the idea that he'll be playing in the red and blue next year. Unless of course it's on the rookie list, but doubt he'd stay there.

[Pates 9,659]

Won't be in Red and Blue next year, no chance. That is sad, he was one of my favourite players but like so many others the club stuffed up a good thing and couldn't take the good potential and turn it into a consistent AFL player. He's a symbol of the old MFC, sad as that sounds. 

I hope he gets to 100 games, really should've played against the Swans. I'm not saying him in there would've made the difference but he'd earned a spot and the conditions suited him more IMO. 

Not really sure where he'd go to be honest though, maybe Richmond? They always seem to be a home to delisted/traded Melbourne players, and his brother is there.

[Gator 17,261]

8 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

I have seen Jack play 4 times at Casey and he definitely stands out as above the VFL standard. His tackling and disposal has improved.

I hope Jack is in this week. Deserves a chance. I still think he has a future in the red and blue.

 

That's because there's less pressure and more time to execute.

I don't think he has a future at the club, but I'll be very disappointed if he doesn't get to 100 games and take his rightful place on the no.31 locker.

I wouldn't have had this view 10 years ago, but the older I get the more I realise that life is all about relationships and not many have had to endure the circumstances unwittingly thrust upon Jack.  When he should have had a relaxed mindset and been working on his own game his head would have been in a spin as he was dealing with issues surrounding the club while also trying to be a role model for teammates.  None of this was conducive to good football and making him a better player.

I agree that the team and club are the big picture, but I also don't believe that either are compromised by getting Grimes to 100 games.  If anything, it's the opposite.  And it won't be a "hollow" milestone.  His teammates will make sure of that.  

When history looks over its shoulder it won't remember how he got there, it will just read Jack Grimes 100 games for the Melbourne Football Club.  In my view the club needs to ensure it happens.  

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

The legacy of the previous administration sits heavily on Jack's shoulders still.  To thrust the captaincy upon him at such a young age was never going to help his career.  Sadly, it may well be that we will never see his true talent as a result

[Undeeterred 3,118]

12 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

I disagree strongly.

Jack Grimes is very limited as a modern footballer. His strength is an ability to read the ball and that he's a reasonably good mark for his size. His disposal is very poor... almost unacceptable, he isn't quick and he gets pushed around easily. Love the guy's persistence and heart, but his card was marked as soon as Hunt and Wagner showed form. With Salem and H set to come back at some point (hopefully) and Vince and NJones perhaps spending more time across half back as they age, we have no spots left. He's not a prospective key back so cannot be compared to the Mac bros. Nev Jetta improved all his deficiencies to become a valuable small back, not such a different role from what Jack could have become. For better or worse, speed and precise rebound across half back have become king, and we have too many turn over merchants as it is. 

Stuck on 98. There's little room for sentimentality in AFL these days.

The big question is how do we know that he can't perform under the new game plan?

It's being played in the VFL, and he's clearly smashing it, so why don't we ditch our preconceptions and see if he can manage it at AFL level?

Who knows, he might even turn out to be the quick, hard running wingman we need quite badly.

How will we know, unless we try?

[Undeeterred 3,118]

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

That's because there's less pressure and more time to execute.

I don't think he has a future at the club, but I'll be very disappointed if he doesn't get to 100 games and take his rightful place on the no.31 locker.

I wouldn't have had this view 10 years ago, but the older I get the more I realise that life is all about relationships and not many have had to endure the circumstances unwittingly thrust upon Jack.  When he should have had a relaxed mindset and been working on his own game his head would have been in a spin as he was dealing with issues surrounding the club while also trying to be a role model for teammates.  None of this was conducive to good football and making him a better player.

I agree that the team and club are the big picture, but I also don't believe that either are compromised by getting Grimes to 100 games.  If anything, it's the opposite.  And it won't be a "hollow" milestone.  His teammates will make sure of that.  

When history looks over its shoulder it won't remember how he got there, it will just read Jack Grimes 100 games for the Melbourne Football Club.  In my view the club needs to ensure it happens.  

Hear, hear. 

People forget the lingering effect of trampling on Junior McDonald and others, instead of handling the situation with a bit of sensitivity.

People also forget that players are human, and when players are treated harshly, they have a lot of mates in the 40 odd left behind, who in turn get shirty with the administration.

[Lucifers Hero 39,504]

I'm hoping that Jack gets a few more games, not just for nostalgia reasons and to have his name on the great 31 locker.

Since Neitz retired we have a terrible record of humiliating departures of club captains.

-Junior was effectively 'sacked without warning'. 

-Brad Green was unceremoniously dumped as captain.

-With Grimes we have the opportunity to show respect and dignity towards our former Captain.  It would be a travesty of justice to just let him walk out the door with a full season in the reserves.

Our last game at the MCG is rnd 22 vs Carlton.  He should play that game, hopefully his 100th and be carried off the ground by his long suffering teammates.

[poita 3,889]

Bitterly disappointed that it has come to this. Roos' insistence on playing his favourites each week, irrespective of form and effort, costs us on a weekly basis. We can agree to disagree as to Grimes's ability, but he has never let us down with his effort.

It makes me sick that guys like Dawes, Lumumba, Kent, Wagner and Harmes (until recently) are guaranteed a game each week irrespective of performance and workrate, but others such as Grimes are not given the same opportunities with far superior performances at VFL level. It is insulting that players such as Newton and Michie who have never threatened to become decent AFL players keep getting opprtunities, whilst Grimes is repeatedly overlooked.

I have 32 consecutive years of membership of this club, but I will seriously consider not renewing for next year if Grimes does not get to 100 games for the club.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

13 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

I hope that would be the very last reason to give a guy a senior game or keep him on the list. Actually, I'd say that is no reason to do it. We are bigger than that now. 

ProDee has said this more completely but you may have missed it. 

You are 100% wrong. We are big enough to give him 100 games. 

Well said Pro. 

[spirit of norm smith 16,250]

Jack Grimes form and improvements this year fit the game plan.  It is not sentiment that delivers Jack back into the MFC team. It should not be past indiscretion that marks his card. 

Roos needs to pick the best team capable of winning. The time for development is over.  The best team must be on the park each week now.  10 years of wilderness must be erased.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

I see now....

We are big enough to give games away to VFL players who in all likelihood will not be with us next year. Let's give some to Terls while we are at it.

Lets get his name on the locker door, and make sure that his yet to be born children will have the option to play at MFC. This is important.

We aren't going to play finals this year so what does it matter that we finish off well. It's sentiment and pity that are important here. We don't want him to feel disappointed when he's cut in October. After all, Grimesy has been a good servant to the team and would want to play games he otherwise wouldn't have.

We've seen what the cutting of Junior did to the club and because we are part of the MFC inner sanctum and team moral is so low we know for sure it will do the same if Jack is cut from the list on 98. I refuse to believe we offered him around for free at the end of last year with no takers. Nope, never happened. It's worthy of microwaving my membership over.

He's been killing it at VFL level and like ANB will surely do it at senior level. After all, he's done it so many times in the past. His disposal, speed and body shape have improved so much this year. Oh, wait.....

Sheesh.

I don't mind Jack getting more games if he has form (tick), has dramatically improved his disposal and speed (unlikely), and is in the mix to be part of our team next year (we don't know, but very doubtful). Sure it would be nice for him to get to 100, even to 200 if he warrants further selection. He has been a great club man and is well liked by all, including me. But let me put it this way... IF Goodwin and Roos had a chat with Grimsey and confirmed he would not be at the club next year, but they would make sure he gets given 2 games so he can get his name on a locker door, do you think he would leave satisfied? I'd hope he'd tell them to put the team's development above his individual games tally. 

Edited June 29, 2016 by Moonshadow

[Mach5 4,767]

14 hours ago, Je Roos Salem said:

That's not much of a reason given who's in front of him. Our defence knows how to stuff up even the most simple of options

No, it is. It definitely is.

[Undeeterred 3,118]

6 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

I see now....

We are big enough to give games away to VFL players who in all likelihood will not be with us next year. Let's give some to Terls while we are at it.

Lets get his name on the locker door, and make sure that his yet unborn children will have the option to play at MFC. This is important.

We aren't going to play finals this year so what does it matter that we finish off well. It's sentiment and pity that are important here. We don't want him to feel disappointed when he's cut in October. After all, Grimesy has been a good servant to the team and would want to play games he otherwise wouldn't have.

We've seen what the cutting of Junior did to the club and because we are part of the MFC inner sanctum and team moral is so low we know for sure it will do the same if Jack is cut from the list on 98. I refuse to believe we offered him around at the end of last year with no takers. Nope, never happened. It's worthy of microwaving my membership over.

He's been killing it at VFL level and like ANB will surely do it at senior level. After all, he's done it so many times in the past. His disposal, speed and body shape have improved so much this year. Oh, wait.....

Sheesh.

I don't mind Jack getting more games if he has form (tick), has dramatically improved his disposal and speed (unlikely), and is in the mix to be part of our team next year (we don't know, but very doubtful). Sure it would be nice for him to get to 100, even to 200 if he warrants further selection. He has been a great club man and is well liked by all, including me. But let me put it this way... IF Goodwin and Roos had a chat with Grimsey and confirmed he would not be at the club next year, but they would make sure he gets given 2 games so he can get his name on a locker door, do you think he would leave satisfied? I'd hope he'd tell them to put the team's development above his individual games tally. 

Overly sarcastic and extremely short sighted. 

Who is suggesting giving games away? 

How about this scenario - the new game plan actually suits him, which is why he is cutting up the twos. What have we to lose by giving him a few games (based on form) to show us whether that's true?

Or how about this scenario - the way we handled McDonald, Green and others, while playing favourites with kids, had a huge hand in creating an extremely disgruntled playing group. Look how well that went down in the aftermath.

And do you seriously think they'd have told him he's not going to be there next year? Sure - just make him emergency every week and have him stew for months and months about how his career is about to be ended. You've got to be joking - that's about as sure a recipe for personnel issues as there is ever likely to be.

[faultydet 7,594]

16 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

IF Goodwin and Roos had a chat with Grimsey and confirmed he would not be at the club next year, but they would make sure he gets given 2 games so he can get his name on a locker door, do you think he would leave satisfied? I'd hope he'd tell them to put the team's development above his individual games tally. 

There wouldnt be a player in the comp who wouldnt want to play the 2 games. Playing Grimes in 2 otherwise unwinnable games is not going to hurt our chances by a noticeable amount.

We can all see that he wont be on our list next year. I hope he gets to play them.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

3 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Overly sarcastic and extremely short sighted. 

Who is suggesting giving games away? 

How about this scenario - the new game plan actually suits him, which is why he is cutting up the twos. What have we to lose by giving him a few games (based on form) to show us whether that's true?

Or how about this scenario - the way we handled McDonald, Green and others, while playing favourites with kids, had a huge hand in creating an extremely disgruntled playing group. Look how well that went down in the aftermath.

And do you seriously think they'd have told him he's not going to be there next year? Sure - just make him emergency every week and have him stew for months and months about how his career is about to be ended. You've got to be joking - that's about as sure a recipe for personnel issues as there is ever likely to be.

Yes my post was sarcastic. Well spotted undeeterred.

"Who's suggesting giving games away" - are you kidding me? Other posters have given the reasons I sarcastically pointed out above. They are reasons for playing that are not related to him deserving a game on his merit for the way Roos and Goodwin coach. Eg. Locker door, father/son/daughter, Junior McDonald, stopping membership, he's a good servant, and we aren't playing finals so the games aren't as important.

The new game plan relies upon fast rebound off half back with good decisions and minimal turn overs. That is not Grimes' fortè.

The Goodwin/Roos convo was a hypothetical, hence the capital 'IF'. I'm sure you knew that though.

[The Chazz 4,077]

When it looked like his career was about to take off he was hampered by soft tissue injuries, nice bloke, teammates love him around the dressing room, can't get out of the 90's.

He's our own Shane Watson!!!

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,733]

Last night on 3aw, Roos confirmed that Grimes will be a fixture in the side after the bye. Form in the VFL has now become too hard to ignore.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

He should be given games.  We are not in finals calculations, to be realistic.  I'd like to think that it is not some form of misguided sentimentality, to still believe that there remains in footy, qualities which transcend the mercenary.  Things like loyalty, making sure the club really does stand for something - which we had all but lost a few years ago, ensuring the clubs culture is improved and maintained, that we stick by our mates, and recognise that commitment alone, sometimes should be rewarded.  You cannot put a value on such qualities.

Give him the games he requires to reach the father/son milestone.

[Sir Why You Little 36,955]

25 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Last night on 3aw, Roos confirmed that Grimes will be a fixture in the side after the bye. Form in the VFL has now become too hard to ignore.

Suprising but fair enough

His career hangs by that thread

I wish Jack still played in the number 16

i have always thought he lost his Mojo once the 31 was on his back....

[Moonshadow 17,675]

4 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Last night on 3aw, Roos confirmed that Grimes will be a fixture in the side after the bye. Form in the VFL has now become too hard to ignore.

The sentimentalists and the blue-in-the-face breath holders will be happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*runs for cover quickly!*

Edited June 29, 2016 by Moonshadow