FAREWELL JACK GRIMES

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,388]

14 minutes ago, Abe said:

I think it's as simple as Jacks destiny is in his own hands, he's in the team right now and so long as he continues to play the way he did on the weekend i am 99.9% sure he'll get another contract at the Dees, if not he'll finish his time at the Dees having captained and played 100 games for the team he grew up supporting, which is what most people dream of.

Getting a contract doesn't guarantee getting a game, if everyone is available he's not best 22. I think he try his luck elsewhere.

[Ted Lasso 19,507]

On 7/13/2016 at 8:31 PM, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Getting a contract doesn't guarantee getting a game, if everyone is available he's not best 22. I think he try his luck elsewhere.

I disagree, i think if he consistently plays to the level he did on the weekend he will find himself in the best 22, though probably still in the bottom 5-6 players picked. 

but i think his aim for now will be to get another contract at the Dees, if he's informed that isn't going to happen i reckon another club will pick him up.

 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,388]

42 minutes ago, Abe said:

I disagree, i think if he consistently plays to the level he did on the weekend he will find himself in the best 22, though probably still in the bottom 5-6 players picked. 

but i think his aim for now will be to get another contract at the Dees, if he's informed that isn't going to happen i reckon another club will pick him up.

 

Salem, Brayshaw, Oliver and Wagner didn't play on the weekend, Melksham is good to go next year plus we could trade for a player. Good luck to him but I personally don't see where he fits in. 

 

[Ted Lasso 19,507]

On 7/13/2016 at 9:17 PM, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Salem, Brayshaw, Oliver and Wagner didn't play on the weekend, Melksham is good to go next year plus we could trade for a player. Good luck to him but I personally don't see where he fits in. 

 

Salem, Brayshaw, Oliver and Wagner are all certainly talented and will keep the heat on, but i think Salem will play half back, Brayshaw and Oliver inside mid, and Wagner is fighting Salem and potentially Hibberd for a spot. 

Still question marks over Melksham, i don't believe he's a walk up start by any stretch, every bombers supporter i know considers him about the most frustrating player they've seen in recent times, if Grimes is consistent i think that gives him an edge over Melksham, but time will tell.

 

[The Chazz 4,077]

11 hours ago, Abe said:

Salem, Brayshaw, Oliver and Wagner are all certainly talented and will keep the heat on, but i think Salem will play half back, Brayshaw and Oliver inside mid, and Wagner is fighting Salem and potentially Hibberd for a spot. 

Still question marks over Melksham, i don't believe he's a walk up start by any stretch, every bombers supporter i know considers him about the most frustrating player they've seen in recent times, if Grimes is consistent i think that gives him an edge over Melksham, but time will tell.

 

Salem, Brayshaw, Oliver and Wagner all offer more than Grimes, and will only get better with age and experience.  Grimes is only playing at the moment because of injury to three of those names, and load management of the other.

Melksham will be playing a specific role that he will do very well at, and will be a lock for starting 18 come Round 1 '17.  I'm not saying he will win our B&F, but he will make it hard for the players to push him out.  Roos indicated that Melksham will play HBF, which is the exact role that Grimes has been trained not to compete for - Roos has constantly said that Grimes has needed to play in other positions to try and force his way back in to the side.

Grimes has Howe Syndrome - he can play OK in a few different positions, but we just have a lot of better options for those roles.  Don't believe me?  Tell me what position he has in our best 22, and when you realise he's not in it, tell me what position he is 1st or 2nd choice depth.

It's hard for some people to understand, but we are in a much better position when we are delisting guys like Grimes at the end of each year.  It means our list is getting healthier and healthier, which is needed when trying to push for Top 8/4.

 

[old55 23,547]

16 hours ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

FWIW, do you believe poor kicking in a 27 year old can be reprogrammed?

FWIW do you believe someone without much EQ can develop some?

Jack Grimes is a true stalwart of MFC who has been through the hard-times.  He's battled strongly and consistently this year and legitimately won his place in the team and played well in a good team win.  And yet we have several "analysts" very keen to jump in this thread and immediately write his epitaph.

I say just enjoy the ride.  Vive le Grimes!

Edited July 14, 2016 by Fifty-5

[stuie 7,374]

Will play his 100th this week, congratulations to him.

 

[Ted Lasso 19,507]

On 7/14/2016 at 9:07 AM, billy2803 said:

Salem, Brayshaw, Oliver and Wagner all offer more than Grimes, and will only get better with age and experience.  Grimes is only playing at the moment because of injury to three of those names, and load management of the other.

Melksham will be playing a specific role that he will do very well at, and will be a lock for starting 18 come Round 1 '17.  I'm not saying he will win our B&F, but he will make it hard for the players to push him out.  Roos indicated that Melksham will play HBF, which is the exact role that Grimes has been trained not to compete for - Roos has constantly said that Grimes has needed to play in other positions to try and force his way back in to the side.

Grimes has Howe Syndrome - he can play OK in a few different positions, but we just have a lot of better options for those roles.  Don't believe me?  Tell me what position he has in our best 22, and when you realise he's not in it, tell me what position he is 1st or 2nd choice depth.

It's hard for some people to understand, but we are in a much better position when we are delisting guys like Grimes at the end of each year.  It means our list is getting healthier and healthier, which is needed when trying to push for Top 8/4.

 

I think you unfortunately missed my point entirely.

It would be a disaster if the club was going to play Salem/Brayshaw/Oliver and Wagner ahead of Grimes just because of who they are, to have a healthy list every player has to earn their spot in the side, regardless of draft positions and whatever, look at James Harmes as an example.

My point is that if Jack Grimes can play consistently to the level he did on the weekend he becomes a very different proposition to the player we've seen over the previous 3-4 years, he ran hard, tackled well and provided link up options and played his role extremely well. 

IF he can do that consistently i'd have him in the side on a wing/half forward, but that depends on his form, Jack would be well aware he doesn't have any more chances, one slip up and he's probably stamped his own papers in terms of a future at the Dees. 

I don't see how Melksham is going to walk in and take a half back spot from Salem, Hunt, Wagner and potentially Hibbered, i think they'll have to revise their plans for him going forward, if Hibberd comes in that's one spot locked away, and Hunt probably has the other locked up, Lumumba, Wagner and Salem can all play Wing/Forward if needed

[P-man 13,366]

God help the bloke if he has an average to poor game. 

He's a capable AFL player at his very best. Whether he gets there consistently is the question. The dampeners being placed upon his first game back seem wholly unnecessary.

[Satyriconhome 10,857]

15 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I agree 100% with Dante

we had many seasons where players didn't believe they could win during the Bailey & Neeld tenures. 

If you couldn't see it you really don't understand sport. 

But then it's just a social outing to you

"to be near your boys..."

I know, they all knew Cam Schwab had run over your cat, and collectively they said let's not win for SWYL    you can agree all you like with Dante    my opinion all players/athletes at a professional level enter every contest wanting to/believing they will win

[DubDee 25,839]

don't now why I open a thread when Saty is the last poster.  I should know its guaranteed to be childish bickering

Anyway...  I'm pumped for Grimsey's 100th, god knows he deserves some positivity.  If he gets more confident and plays within his limits, I reckon his skill errors will dry up and he can hold down a spot on the wing.  

[The Chazz 4,077]

3 minutes ago, Abe said:

I think you unfortunately missed my point entirely.

It would be a disaster if the club was going to play Salem/Brayshaw/Oliver and Wagner ahead of Grimes just because of who they are, to have a healthy list every player has to earn their spot in the side, regardless of draft positions and whatever, look at James Harmes as an example.

My point is that if Jack Grimes can play consistently to the level he did on the weekend he becomes a very different proposition to the player we've seen over the previous 3-4 years, he ran hard, tackled well and provided link up options and played his role extremely well. 

IF he can do that consistently i'd have him in the side on a wing/half forward, but that depends on his form, Jack would be well aware he doesn't have any more chances, one slip up and he's probably stamped his own papers in terms of a future at the Dees. 

I don't see how Melksham is going to walk in and take a half back spot from Salem, Hunt, Wagner and potentially Hibbered, i think they'll have to revise their plans for him going forward, if Hibberd comes in that's one spot locked away, and Hunt probably has the other locked up, Lumumba, Wagner and Salem can all play Wing/Forward if needed

How did you come up with that?  I'm picking them because they are clearly better players that Grimes will ever be.  It is natural to think that, providing they aren't injured, that those players (the first 3 in particular) will be even better players next year.

So you mention playing him on a wing/HFF, let's break this down;

HFF - competing with Petracca, Kent, Kennedy, Harmes

Wing - Players that can rotate through there will be Vince, Stretch, Brayshaw, and (potentially) Hunt, Melksham, Salem, ANB, Matt Jones

Grimes has been forced out of his previous role as a HBF by the recruitment/development/addition of better players (more so if we get Hibberd).  He is up against tough opposition to push on to a wing.  A HFF role is his best option, but he's competing against Petracca (who has the world at his feet).  As I said, his situation is like Howe's, but unfortunately I don't think he has the trade value that Howe always had.

Be assured, Melksham is a walk up start in our top 22.

 

[Ted Lasso 19,507]

On 7/14/2016 at 0:43 PM, billy2803 said:

How did you come up with that?  I'm picking them because they are clearly better players that Grimes will ever be.  It is natural to think that, providing they aren't injured, that those players (the first 3 in particular) will be even better players next year.

So you mention playing him on a wing/HFF, let's break this down;

HFF - competing with Petracca, Kent, Kennedy, Harmes

Wing - Players that can rotate through there will be Vince, Stretch, Brayshaw, and (potentially) Hunt, Melksham, Salem, ANB, Matt Jones

Grimes has been forced out of his previous role as a HBF by the recruitment/development/addition of better players (more so if we get Hibberd).  He is up against tough opposition to push on to a wing.  A HFF role is his best option, but he's competing against Petracca (who has the world at his feet).  As I said, his situation is like Howe's, but unfortunately I don't think he has the trade value that Howe always had.

Be assured, Melksham is a walk up start in our top 22.

 

I think you're dismissing Grimes game on the weekend, if he plays like that consistently he will make it difficult to drop him, regardless of who is in the seconds. 

Petracca,Kent, Kennedy, Harmes are all talented but inconsistent and i wouldn't say any are a lock in the 22 becuase of this, if Grimes is consistent i think he can put pressure on all but maybe Petracca. 

same thing with the Wing position, if he holds that form consistently i'd have him on the wing before Matt Jones, Melksham, ANB and Stretch, Brayshaw if he shows last years form is probably on par and Hunt and Vince i see as now locks in the 22 

again my point is if Grimes can show the weekends form consistently there is enough there that he shouldn't be written off just yet, it's not certain and it'll be bloody tough but it's all in his hands.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

1 hour ago, Fifty-5 said:

FWIW do you believe someone without much EQ can develop some?

Jack Grimes is a true stalwart of MFC who has been through the hard-times.  He's battled strongly and consistently this year and legitimately won his place in the team and played well in a good team win.  And yet we have several "analysts" very keen to jump in this thread and immediately write his epitaph.

I say just enjoy the ride.  Vive le Grimes!

How predictable.

Group 1 - the Grimes isn't up to it group.  "He won't make it, he can't improve, he can't kick, he can't play the game plan, I know he disposed at 90%+ but you can't take any notice of stats, he won't be here at the end of the year."

Group 2 - the Grimes is up to it group "he has learned under Roos, his kicking has improved, he has a role to play, he's showing the doubters up, I love him".

Group 3 -  the realists "enjoy the moment, ripping bloke who has been faithful to MFC through dreadful times, played a very good first game back last week, lets hope for more, nothing proved".

 

Well you get the drift anyway.  Group one ignore his game in Darwin, group two embrace it and group 3 just wonder (and probably hope).  Me?  Guess.

[daisycutter 29,613]

8 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

How predictable.

Group 1 - the Grimes isn't up to it group.  "He won't make it, he can't improve, he can't kick, he can't play the game plan, I know he disposed at 90%+ but you can't take any notice of stats, he won't be here at the end of the year."

Group 2 - the Grimes is up to it group "he has learned under Roos, his kicking has improved, he has a role to play, he's showing the doubters up, I love him".

Group 3 -  the realists "enjoy the moment, ripping bloke who has been faithful to MFC through dreadful times, played a very good first game back last week, lets hope for more, nothing proved".

 

Well you get the drift anyway.  Group one ignore his game in Darwin, group two embrace it and group 3 just wonder (and probably hope).  Me?  Guess.

group 4.? just guessing

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

44 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I know, they all knew Cam Schwab had run over your cat, and collectively they said let's not win for SWYL    you can agree all you like with Dante    my opinion all players/athletes at a professional level enter every contest wanting to/believing they will win

Like i said. Wanting to win and believing you can actually do it are 2 seperate issues that you do not seem to grasp old boy...

[Dante 2,739]

3 hours ago, billy2803 said:

 

What's best 22? It's rather a moveable feast and would change many times over the course of a year. 

Players lose form, are injured, or simply need a rest, if we have only room on our list for a perceived best 22, it will be a very short list. Grimes played last week and played well, who did he keep out? if Roos and the Match committee play him this week it will be because he is the best player for the position.

I said earlier this year that, as the season progresses we will need to bring in some of the more mature players to replace the tired younger players that have need for a rest, Mat Jones and Grimes are good enough to play and give the up and coming kids a chop out. Trenners is also in this category, the club will decide who is on the list next year and who's not. We don't have 1 to 2 players as replacements for each position, we are not that good.

[The Chazz 4,077]

57 minutes ago, Abe said:

I think you're dismissing Grimes game on the weekend, if he plays like that consistently he will make it difficult to drop him, regardless of who is in the seconds. 

Petracca,Kent, Kennedy, Harmes are all talented but inconsistent and i wouldn't say any are a lock in the 22 becuase of this, if Grimes is consistent i think he can put pressure on all but maybe Petracca. 

same thing with the Wing position, if he holds that form consistently i'd have him on the wing before Matt Jones, Melksham, ANB and Stretch, Brayshaw if he shows last years form is probably on par and Hunt and Vince i see as now locks in the 22 

again my point is if Grimes can show the weekends form consistently there is enough there that he shouldn't be written off just yet, it's not certain and it'll be bloody tough but it's all in his hands.

Abe, your argument is based on Grimes being consistent, and the other players being inconsistent.

If we are honest about it, a consistent Petracca, Harmes, Kennedy and Kent crap all over a consistent Grimes.  Not only that, those 4 blokes have played 116 games between them, Grimes has played 99.

 

[old55 23,547]

2 hours ago, Dante said:

What's best 22? It's rather a moveable feast and would change many times over the course of a year. 

Players lose form, are injured, or simply need a rest, if we have only room on our list for a perceived best 22, it will be a very short list. Grimes played last week and played well, who did he keep out? if Roos and the Match committee play him this week it will be because he is the best player for the position.

100%

There are always injuries, players returning from injury and players out of form.  "Best 22" is a useless concept.  There's a squad of about 30 players who all make useful contributions through the year.

As an aside, that's why I think just giving the premiership medals to just the 22 on GF day is flawed.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Fifty-5

[hells bells 2,023]

Watching his press conference on afl.com.au.  I get the impression that he doesn't think he'll be a Demon next year.

[In Harmes Way 7,766]

Grimes named at HBF - congratulations on reaching the ton mate!

[titan_uranus 25,000]

6 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

100%

There are always injuries, players returning from injury and players out of form.  "Best 22" is a useless concept.  There's a squad of about 30 players who all make useful contributions through the year.

As an aside, that's why I think just giving the premiership medals to just the 22 on GF day is flawed.

Certainly the aim is to have a squad which runs to 30, or even more, but every club, if given 44 fit players, would have a best 22 in mind.

Right now, Grimes is not part of that best 22. 

I love him though and I want him to play every game for the rest of the year to improve his standing within the squad and to try to get himself to a point where, if he's not best 22, he's good enough to hold a spot on our list. Whether it's rational or not, I just do not want to see him running around for some other club next year.

[Undeeterred 3,123]

4 hours ago, hells bells said:

Watching his press conference on afl.com.au.  I get the impression that he doesn't think he'll be a Demon next year.

Sadly, given the number of articles appearing which talk about his future being 'clouded', he has been told he definitely won't be, and his manager is testing the market for him.

[Lucifers Hero 39,737]

Last week was an exciting game by and for Jack.  Great that he got to 100 games. 

He is in no way responsible for our loss today; that was a real team effort. 

But it was his last hoorah as a Demon.  Today he showed even his most ardent fans, why.

[chook fowler 19,458]

Gorne