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NATIONAL DRAFT PICKS 3 & 7

Lucifers Hero
Lucifers Hero
in Melbourne Demons

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  On 31/10/2015 at 00:16, Port Demons said:

There have been some earlier comments on here about Parish frame not being big enough.

I personally don't see this as an issue.

To put into perspective against a 1st year player: Darcy Parish 181cm, 74kg vs Billy Stretch 180cm, 71kgs & 11 AFL games ( http://www.melbournefc.com.au/player-profile/billy-stretch )

I prefer high draft picks to have a distinct physical attribute.

Either Speed and/or Strength.

You can point out others who have similar dimensions Sam Mitchell, Callan Ward 183cm/71kg etc who have succeeded but they were low risk picks.

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      On 31/10/2015 at 00:47, Unstable Dees fan said:

    He is quite good, he runs hard defensively, you'll often see him working back to defense and helping clear the ball, the only knock i have is some of the bigger bodies can slip his tackles from time to time, having said that a year or two in the gym and he's not going to have an issue there.

    kid is exactly what we need.

    Dunno where you heard/saw this, but from the games I watched him play, and his coach, his defensive work rate is poor at this stage.

    I'm a Parish fan, but let's not ignore his weaknesses. If he had none, he'd be going pick 1.

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      On 31/10/2015 at 01:53, Davos said:

    Dunno where you heard/saw this, but from the games I watched him play, and his coach, his defensive work rate is poor at this stage.

    I'm a Parish fan, but let's not ignore his weaknesses. If he had none, he'd be going pick 1.

    What a load of rubbish. Every single draftee and player in the AFL have some sort of weakness that coaches and recruiting staff will point out. The reason why Parish isn't number 1 is because Carlton are in dire need of KPP and Weitering is a once in a generation CHB, bit like Hogan up forward. Those types are just dime in dozen and too good to ignore and he fits their needs. Parish is just as deserving as a number 1 pick though. He is the exact type of player we are desperately lacking as he has that outside class and run.
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      On 31/10/2015 at 02:38, dazzledavey36 said:

    Those types are NOT just a dime a dozen and too good to ignore and he fits their needs. Parish is just as deserving as a number 1 pick though.

    Fixed

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      On 31/10/2015 at 02:46, Mickey said:

    Fixed

    Can't see pass the wall of text as to what you fixed

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      On 31/10/2015 at 02:38, dazzledavey36 said:

    What a load of rubbish. Every single draftee and player in the AFL have some sort of weakness that coaches and recruiting staff will point out. The reason why Parish isn't number 1 is because Carlton are in dire need of KPP and Weitering is a once in a generation CHB, bit like Hogan up forward. Those types are just dime in dozen and too good to ignore and he fits their needs. Parish is just as deserving as a number 1 pick though. He is the exact type of player we are desperately lacking as he has that outside class and run.

    Point to where I said he wasn't the type of player we need? Just as deserving of the number 1 pick as a "once in a generation" key defender. Lel.

    The hyperbole on here is astounding. We had posters losing the plot over a sub par highlights package, but now there's a new one out he's definitely the player we need and his only weakness is his weight. Unless you've seen these kids play, in the flesh, you can offer no insight into the said player.

    Again, I'm a huge fan of Parish and could only laugh at some of the posts earlier in this and other threads. Would love him at pick 3. But he's got flaws, which is one reason why our recruiting team will no doubt be looking at Curnow with out first pick.

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      On 31/10/2015 at 00:35, olisik said:

    Just like Sam Blease, Colin Sylvia and Brent Malony right?

    Gotta run both ways to make it these days, offensive game and your only halfway there.

    As long as Parish is willing to learn, he will be able to become good defensively. It's all about applying yourself, and that's something that the players that you mentioned failed to do.

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      On 31/10/2015 at 01:53, Davos said:

    Dunno where you heard/saw this, but from the games I watched him play, and his coach, his defensive work rate is poor at this stage.

    I'm a Parish fan, but let's not ignore his weaknesses. If he had none, he'd be going pick 1.

    I have been to a few of his games this year and his defensive work rate is fine, at TAC cup level it's quite raw, defensive work rate becomes alot more obvious when it is implemented into a structure and role within an AFL side, really at TAC cup level he just wants to stand out as much as possible, but he's more than capable of running both ways and doing those things.

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      On 31/10/2015 at 05:56, Unstable Dees fan said:

    I have been to a few of his games this year and his defensive work rate is fine, at TAC cup level it's quite raw, defensive work rate becomes alot more obvious when it is implemented into a structure and role within an AFL side, really at TAC cup level he just wants to stand out as much as possible, but he's more than capable of running both ways and doing those things.

    The beauty of the way things are being done under Roos is that unless he shows in the preseason that he has ironed out the weaknesses that you perceive he has, Parish won't be under pressure to perform at the highest level immediately (unlike Toumpas who was probably brought in too early because we had few viable options). Roos and McCartney will make sure that he's ready when the time comes and not necessarily in round 1 of his first season.

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    Agreed Elwood, in fact when you look at most people's best 22 for round 1 next year most don't have any of this years draft picks in the team. In the past that hasn't been the case.

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      On 31/10/2015 at 00:35, olisik said:

    Just like Sam Blease, Colin Sylvia and Brent Malony right?

    Gotta run both ways to make it these days, offensive game and your only halfway there.

    I've always said that Melbourne's problems in the recent past have been 90% drafting and 10% development, that is the 10% I refer to.

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      On 01/11/2015 at 01:24, Clint Bizkit said:

    I've always said that Melbourne's problems in the recent past have been 90% drafting and 10% development, that is the 10% I refer to.

    I was fortunate enough to chat with Roos for a few minutes a while back and he left me under no illusion how important development is and how the lack thereof has let down the MFC.

    For example, he said Dan Hannebery would be "nowhere near the player he was if he'd been drafted to Melbourne".

    That said, our drafting has been pox.

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    Recruiters are probably spending more time working out who to draft with the later picks.

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      On 01/11/2015 at 02:13, ProDee said:

    I was fortunate enough to chat with Roos for a few minutes a while back and he left me under no illusion how important development is and how the lack thereof has let down the MFC.

    For example, he said Dan Hannebery would be "nowhere near the player he was if he'd been drafted to Melbourne".

    That said, our drafting has been pox.

    But would Gysberts, Morton, Cook, Maric, Watts, Tapscott, Strauss and Blease be any better at other clubs? We know Maric, Gysberts, Morton and Blease weren't and we will soon find out with Toumpas.

    Of course development needed to improve, but having said that I believe a lot of development comes from playing with better players and leaders. Hannebery had the likes of Goodes, O'Keefe, Bolton, Kennedy and Jack to take the brunt of the workload while he could develop.

    I still stand by my 90/10 split.

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      On 01/11/2015 at 03:27, Clint Bizkit said:

    But would Gysberts, Morton, Cook, Maric, Watts, Tapscott, Strauss and Blease be any better at other clubs? We know Maric, Gysberts, Morton and Blease weren't and we will soon find out with Toumpas.

    Of course development needed to improve, but having said that I believe a lot of development comes from playing with better players and leaders. Hannebery had the likes of Goodes, O'Keefe, Bolton, Kennedy and Jack to take the brunt of the workload while he could develop.

    I still stand by my 90/10 split.

    You could also say that the most important years of development are the first few at an AFL club, meaning that they were shot by the time they got to their new clubs.

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      On 01/11/2015 at 03:38, rjay said:

    You could also say that the most important years of development are the first few at an AFL club, meaning that they were shot by the time they got to their new clubs.

    How does that work, exactly? Did we give them bad habits? Not work on their bodies enough?

    This whole 'we destroyed them as footballers' holds no water with me. More than happy to agree that we don't get the most out of players, and haven't for a long time, but I reject the notion that our lack of proper development ruined them.

    A good player at 18 that is destined to be a good player at 25 cannot be 'ruined' by anything other than injury.

    We did not draft 'talented 18 years that were destined to be good players at 25'.

    By and large, we drafted talented 18 year olds that, I am afraid to say, were destined to not be good enough.

    Destiny ruined them.

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      On 01/11/2015 at 03:38, rjay said:

    You could also say that the most important years of development are the first few at an AFL club, meaning that they were shot by the time they got to their new clubs.

    You could, but I don't believe that.

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      On 01/11/2015 at 04:18, rpfc said:

    How does that work, exactly? Did we give them bad habits? Not work on their bodies enough?

    This whole 'we destroyed them as footballers' holds no water with me. More than happy to agree that we don't get the most out of players, and haven't for a long time, but I reject the notion that our lack of proper development ruined them.

    A good player at 18 that is destined to be a good player at 25 cannot be 'ruined' by anything other than injury.

    We did not draft 'talented 18 years that were destined to be good players at 25'.

    By and large, we drafted talented 18 year olds that, I am afraid to say, were destined to not be good enough.

    Destiny ruined them.

    Talent alone does not get you success. There are countless examples of people with natural talent that did have the drive and perseverence to succeed. And countless examples of the opposite.

    IMO there is no one thing but high on the list is:

    1) picking the wrong type of players - players without competetive spirit; and,

    2) The lack of leadership at the club. This was pivotal to ensuring draftees made the transition from juniors to AFL.

    Imagine if Luke Hodge, N Riewoldt or Jonno Brown saw Gysberts refuse to run a time trial because it was too hot? They would have to be held back from seriously hurting that player.

    The lack of leaders demanding how players behave and perform has been a massive issue for us for along time. Guys like Jeff White, Yze, Cam Bruce, Robbo, Brad Green were good players for us but regularly went missing on the field and could not inspire the rest of the players to drive themselves. They were the leaders at our club and failed at that task. Neitz and Junior were much better. Nate Jones tries hard but doesn't have the Hodge, Selwood x-factor when it comes to leadership.

    I'd say the recruiters are getting much better at that now with Vince, McDonald, Brayshaw and Petracca, Hogan etc. Talent, competetiveness plus leadership.

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      On 01/11/2015 at 06:11, jnrmac said:

    Talent alone does not get you success. There are countless examples of people with natural talent that did have the drive and perseverence to succeed. And countless examples of the opposite.

    IMO there is no one thing but high on the list is:

    1) picking the wrong type of players - players without competetive spirit; and,

    2) The lack of leadership at the club. This was pivotal to ensuring draftees made the transition from juniors to AFL.

    Imagine if Luke Hodge, N Riewoldt or Jonno Brown saw Gysberts refuse to run a time trial because it was too hot? They would have to be held back from seriously hurting that player.

    The lack of leaders demanding how players behave and perform has been a massive issue for us for along time. Guys like Jeff White, Yze, Cam Bruce, Robbo, Brad Green were good players for us but regularly went missing on the field and could not inspire the rest of the players to drive themselves. They were the leaders at our club and failed at that task. Neitz and Junior were much better. Nate Jones tries hard but doesn't have the Hodge, Selwood x-factor when it comes to leadership.

    I'd say the recruiters are getting much better at that now with Vince, McDonald, Brayshaw and Petracca, Hogan etc. Talent, competetiveness plus leadership.

    That's garbage. They achieved far more than people give them credit. And how were they to inspire Bailey's Babes when the club's management didn't see them as part of the short term future?

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      On 27/10/2015 at 11:46, Axis of Bob said:

    Just watching the Country v Metro match, the thing to note with Parish, his 'point of difference' or whatever you want to call it, is that he makes good decisions incredibly quickly and he just doesn't fumble.

    One of the reasons why Toumpas struggled is that he struggled to find space with the extra pace of AFL and got stuck with the footy. Parish, on the other hand, is just so quick with his decisions that he gets the ball and finds a great option before anyone has time to tackle him. It's an underrated skill, but is very important at AFL level, especially when he can also be very creative at that speed.

    A bit like a rich man's AN-B.

    I agree with that, Tompas was drafted for his run and carry but unfortunately he wasn't fast enough and got tackled before he could found the space.

    Parish is very quick at making a decision By foot Or by hand in traffic, if he can transfer that quick decision making to the speed of the Game at the next level he will be a gun!

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      On 01/11/2015 at 06:11, jnrmac said:

    .................... Guys like Jeff White, Yze, Cam Bruce, Robbo, Brad Green were good players for us but regularly went missing on the field and could not inspire the rest of the players to drive themselves. They were the leaders at our club and failed at that task. Neitz and Junior were much better. Nate Jones tries hard but doesn't have the Hodge, Selwood x-factor when it comes to leadership.

    I'd say the recruiters are getting much better at that now with Vince, McDonald, Brayshaw and Petracca, Hogan etc. Talent, competetiveness plus leadership.

      On 01/11/2015 at 07:03, mo64 said:

    That's garbage. They achieved far more than people give them credit. And how were they to inspire Bailey's Babes when the club's management didn't see them as part of the short term future?

    Honestly mo64 I don't think I have read a more irrefutable sentence on Demonland than the one bolded from jnrmac. One of the major problems of our club in the 2000's was a huge lack of on-field leadership. Our senior players often went missing. I don't think I have met any Melbourne supporters who would disagree with that.

    The situation then became even more dire as Brock McLean, Colin Sylvia and Moloney moved up in the team hierarchy

    We have suffered from a quality leadership vacuum for many years. Hopefully as jnrmac alludes to we have now turned the corner.

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      On 01/11/2015 at 02:13, ProDee said:

    I was fortunate enough to chat with Roos for a few minutes a while back and he left me under no illusion how important development is and how the lack thereof has let down the MFC.

    For example, he said Dan Hannebery would be "nowhere near the player he was if he'd been drafted to Melbourne".

    That said, our drafting has been pox.

    The problem was we played to many young players in the team at once.

    I remember reading an article with the great late Jim Stynes in "09" on the MFC web site "we are going to only play our young players to speed up there development" he said.

    I thought that was a great idea at the time, boy was I wrong.

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      On 01/11/2015 at 09:04, fndee said:

    Honestly mo64 I don't think I have read a more irrefutable sentence on Demonland than the one bolded from jnrmac. One of the major problems of our club in the 2000's was a huge lack of on-field leadership. Our senior players often went missing. I don't think I have met any Melbourne supporters who would disagree with that.

    The situation then became even more dire as Brock McLean, Colin Sylvia and Moloney moved up in the team hierarchy

    We have suffered from a quality leadership vacuum for many years. Hopefully as jnrmac alludes to we have now turned the corner.

    Blokes who got us to Prelims and a Grand Final don't forget, we'd kill for that at the moment

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    http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-11-01/phantom-form-guide-update

    Cal Twomey's latest Phantom form guide update.

    Most people think we're either targeting Parish or Curnow with ND3. If the experts are correct, we take Parish with ND3, with the hope of snaring either one of A. Francis, S. Weideman or C. Curnow with ND7.

    Depending on what Gold Coast do, there's a fair chance none of the above will be available by our 2nd first round selection - The latter two could fill a much needed hole within our forward 50.

    Why did I just get nervous...

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