Do you think the Pies are smarter than we are?

Lumumba goes from disappointing to disastrous. Grimes had more possessions in a half than he had in a game and Grimes possessions mean something where Lumumba's are meaningless a lot of the time.

I don't know what's wrong with him because he's a better footballer than he's showing. Having said that if he can't contribute I'd have him at Casey as quick as blink.

The fact that Grimes was sub on Sunday after Grimes v Lumumba's performances against NM shows either Roos has his favourites or Grimes is totally on the outer. If so, don't pick him.

Lumumba goes from disappointing to disastrous. Grimes had more possessions in a half than he had in a game and Grimes possessions mean something where Lumumba's are meaningless a lot of the time.

I don't know what's wrong with him because he's a better footballer than he's showing. Having said that if he can't contribute I'd have him at Casey as quick as blink.

The fact that Grimes was sub on Sunday after Grimes v Lumumba's performances against NM shows either Roos has his favourites or Grimes is totally on the outer. If so, don't pick him.

Have to agree with you. I wasn't a big fan of picking him up in the first place but he turned me around in the pre season, really added something to the group.

His form has been very disappointing though and some of the things that concerned me about him have come to the fore.

I was unlucky (lucky?) enough to not be able to follow the game on sunday so when I saw he stats with Grimes having so few possessions I was worried about him. I've always valued him and really don't want to see him cut when there are several clear list cloggers to drop first.

It was a great relief to know he'd got those numbers from just half a game, but also worrying that he was given the subs' vest.

Our defence overall has been pretty 'ordinary' for the most part, this year. Often 'adequate' but certainly not inspiring.

Dunn, Lumumba, Garland and Grimes have all just been plodding along. Very few exceptional games from any of them.

So many plodders, all over the ground.

We have to bring in players who can add a little chaos and danger. Its why I prefer Newton over Riley or Michie, for example.

Thankfully there's a few players (E.g. Francis, Balic) around our point in the draft who fit the bill. But one gun won't change much when we need six.

Out of the Melb, Coll and Geel 3 way trade collingwood are miles in front. Varcoe has been sensational this year.

Lumumba goes from disappointing to disastrous. Grimes had more possessions in a half than he had in a game and Grimes possessions mean something where Lumumba's are meaningless a lot of the time.

I don't know what's wrong with him because he's a better footballer than he's showing. Having said that if he can't contribute I'd have him at Casey as quick as blink.

The fact that Grimes was sub on Sunday after Grimes v Lumumba's performances against NM shows either Roos has his favourites or Grimes is totally on the outer. If so, don't pick him.

Agree. I would drop HL to Casey for the rest of the year.

I think he suffers from:

- our clogged up game style

- lack of clean disposal

- lack of movement up the ground

He's also just not that good and our experimenting with him in other positions was a failure (we could've used his speed in the midfield).

It's a shame as he's retreated way back into his shell

Out of the Melb, Coll and Geel 3 way trade collingwood are miles in front. Varcoe has been sensational this year.

A reason why I'm I favour of any efforts to get Bennell.

Inside Geelong they were licking their lips at the prospect of offloading Varcoe for something meaningful, despite a gaggle of issues.

Obviously in the right environment they dont necessarily have to stop a player from flourishing.

I have been thinking about this for a while and our 2013 draft is looking quite worrying. I know many people hail him as our savior, but I don't share the optimism. It could be the pessimist in me that remembers these boards and similar thoughts about Barry Prendegast soon after our 2008 and 2009 drafts.

Looking at the 2013 draft two seasons on:

Pick 9: Christian Salem. Appears to be a good pick, is a good competitor with neat skills. I don't know about his speed at this stage, rarely gets out of a jog. Cant claim it as a fantastic pick as a Cripps, Sheed and McCarthy were all taken after him and have probably shown more. Injuries and lack of fitness have made it hard to get an accurate gauge.

Pick 40: Jay Kennedy-Harris: This pick is worrying as he is an undersized player who does not have great speed. He also lacks the evasive moves that would be required with this lack of speed. Kicking also lacks penetration. In fairness there was not too much still around at this point in the draft. The bigger concern was hearing rumours we rated him much higher than this and were surprised he was still available.

Pick 57: Jayden Hunt: Speculative pick that probably should have been a rookie. Have not seen much of him and when he does play doesn't get enough of the ball. Has some attributes which could make him an AFL standard player.

Rookies:

James Harmes: Lacks polish but moves OK, better speed than most of the plodders on our list. Doubt he makes it. Will be the new whipping boy if Matt Jones and Rohan Bail don't make it.

Max King: I think he shows some real promise. Good skills for a big man and worth at least giving the same amount of development we have given to Spencer.

Alex Georgiou: Terrible pick and a waste of 7 AFL games. Undersized KPP who gives no offensive drive.

My biggest concern, however, is rating Lewis Taylor in the top 9 Players in the 2013 draft. I cant understand how this was possible.

On a side note: have just read Emma Quayle's book The Draftees. I found it interesting to see we rated: Mccarrtin and Heeney at 1 and 2. Then as has been widely speculated Petracca, Brayshaw and Lever next.

What are peoples thoughts?

My biggest concern, however, is rating Lewis Taylor in the top 9 Players in the 2013 draft. I cant understand how this was possible.

The same Lewis Taylor who won the rising star award ahead of the Bont ?

My thoughts?

This is such a stupid thread plain and simple. Salem will be a star. His game on the weekend showed how badly we missed him all year. Jay is still young and already played 20 games. Jayden Hunt still has time.

Funny how you started this thread based on the 2013 draft yet no mention of Brayshaw Stretch ANB OMac Vandenberg who have all showed that they will important members of the future. The Vandenberg pick was a jackpot. Thats good enough for me. I will also say that Mitchell White will most likely debut this week or next year. Another win for us.

Taylor is a breath of fresh air. Once Petracca is up and going i can see 2014 draft a pivotal one in the future that will set us up.

Jason Taylor is doing his job. To question him now is laughable and stupid.

heeney looks a class above brayshaw. if mills is even better - and they say he is - it says so much for how valuable the academies are going to be for the northern state clubs.

Vandenberg. Completely stuffed that rookie pick up.

We also bid pick 2 for Heeney, but the Swans took him with their first round pick.

And Salem will be an absolute gun - managed to get Tyson too with that sweet little trade.

Very selective and convenient assessment of things.

I thought last weekend's game was one of Salem's best.

We've gone from looking for a messiah (Watts, Scully, Trengove, Jimmy) to looking for a very naughty boy (Roos, Misson, Taylor)...

no mention of this year's bunch?

Selective amnesia?

Collectively they have been the best first year group I can remember (maybe except the year ?1953 or 1954 that saw the likes of Barassi, Adams, Dixon, Tunbridge, Johnson, Mithen, Laidlaw etc arrive at the club).

In the context of our drafting in the past decade, 2013 has been a blinding success.

I have been thinking about this for a while and our 2013 draft is looking quite worrying. I know many people hail him as our savior, but I don't share the optimism. It could be the pessimist in me that remembers these boards and similar thoughts about Barry Prendegast soon after our 2008 and 2009 drafts.

Think you might be right about the pessimist bit!

You were also a bit harsh on Harmes, has grit and has shown a bit, does need polish but how many players who have played less than 10 games have polish. You follow it up by saying King shows a bit when he hasn't even played a game yet.

Looking at the 2013 draft two seasons on:

Pick 9: Christian Salem. Appears to be a good pick, is a good competitor with neat skills. I don't know about his speed at this stage, rarely gets out of a jog. Cant claim it as a fantastic pick as a Cripps, Sheed and McCarthy were all taken after him and have probably shown more. Injuries and lack of fitness have made it hard to get an accurate gauge.

Pick 40: Jay Kennedy-Harris: This pick is worrying as he is an undersized player who does not have great speed. He also lacks the evasive moves that would be required with this lack of speed. Kicking also lacks penetration. In fairness there was not too much still around at this point in the draft. The bigger concern was hearing rumours we rated him much higher than this and were surprised he was still available.

Pick 57: Jayden Hunt: Speculative pick that probably should have been a rookie. Have not seen much of him and when he does play doesn't get enough of the ball. Has some attributes which could make him an AFL standard player.

I think Salem will be streets ahead of Sheed and could still be one of the picks of his draft year.

Cripps is one out of the box that you hope to find but wasn't rated as a top 10 selection a bit like Fyfe. He was in and out of the side in his first year and now he has settled. A little bit of time and more responsibility has really helped here.

Too early to tell but my gut feel is that I'm really liking the last two years of recruiting and hoping we can reproduce another lot of players like Brayshaw, Tyson, Salem and vandenburg. I also noted Nathan Jones rated Petracca the most exciting on our list ahead of Hogan.

in 2013, it was important we nailed pick 9 in Salem, and I think most are happy with that.

I would like to see how he compared with other recruiters from 2013 ... The cats are the front runners in recruiting and got Darcy Lang (pick16), Jarrad Jansen (pick 36), Jake Kolodjashnij (pick 41) - after that it was rookie elevations for them.

1 1 Boyd, Thomas Thomas Boyd

Greater Western Sydney

Eastern Ranges

TAC Cup

1 2 Kelly, Josh Josh Kelly

Greater Western Sydney^[a]

Sandringham Dragons

TAC Cup

1 3 Billings, Jack Jack Billings

St Kilda

Oakleigh Chargers

TAC Cup

1 4 Bontempelli, Marcus Marcus Bontempelli

Western Bulldogs

Northern Knights

TAC Cup

1 5 Kolodjashnij, Kade Kade Kolodjashnij

Gold Coast

Launceston

TSL

1 6 Scharenberg, Matthew Matthew Scharenberg

Collingwood

Glenelg

SANFL

1 7 Aish, James James Aish

Brisbane Lions

Norwood

SANFL

1 8 McDonald, Luke Luke McDonald

North Melbourne^[c]

Werribee

VFL

1 9 Salem, Christian Christian Salem

Melbourne^[d]

Sandringham Dragons

TAC Cup

1 10 Freeman, Nathan Nathan Freeman

Collingwood

Sandringham Dragons

TAC Cup

1 11 Sheed, Dom Dom Sheed

West Coast^[e]

Subiaco

WAFL

1 12 Lennon, Ben Ben Lennon

Richmond

Northern Knights

TAC Cup

Ill make this succinct

the threads question is..is Taylor up to it ?

The answer is YES ( resoundingly )

now we can all move on

Ill make this succinct

the threads question is..is Taylor up to it ?

The answer is YES ( resoundingly )

now we can all move on

Thanks 'bb'...

I wouldn't be writing off JKH yet, the kid has played 21 games and is 20 years old... How long did Nev Jetta take to blossom?

Lets see how he goes after a 3rd preseason

Too early to tell for that draft. And that was Taylor's first I believe.

_{You billygoats on demonland}

_{Prendergast or Taylor}

_{Prendergast had his opprtunatly & cost this club a generation}

_{Taylor was number 2 person @ Collingwood with experience}

_{chalk & cheese}

_{Personally Prendergast should be barred from MFC}