On 24/08/2015 at 12:00, ProDee said:

We didn't lose because were are slow, we lost because we didn't compete.

We didn't beat Collingwood, Richmond, Footscray and Geelong because we are fast, we won because we harassed, contested, ran and had decent ball movement.

Most of it is mindset.

Caught them on off days don't fool yourself we are not much chop.

Top four sides kill us look what the dogs did to us two weeks ago.

And watch this weekend mindset will mean bugger all.

  On 24/08/2015 at 12:24, praha said:

If Roos doesn't seek or entertain trades for Jones, Dunn, Garland, Watts and Dawes, then I'll really question him.

We can't move on with losers leading the club. Move them all on.

Jones is too important to our midfield. Watts is finally developing into a best 22 player.

The others, agreed. Frost, Pedersen and someone else (don't care who) in for Dunn, Dawes and Garland.

Howe, Grimes, Cross and Lumumba out too.

Let Jones and Vince, and then Viney and McDonald, lead the club, and rid the club of the absolute disaster material that is the aforementioned players.

If we are being realistic Dunn stays.

  On 24/08/2015 at 12:29, old dee said:

Caught them on off days don't fool yourself we are not much chop.

Top four sides kill us look what the dogs did to us two weeks ago.

And watch this weekend mindset will mean bugger all.

I'm not trumpeting our current form or saying the season is a resounding success, but we are entitled to reflect on our wins this year as improvements on previous years and previous wins.

Beating one good side might be a fluke. Beating three (Richmond, Dogs, Geelong in Geelong) is a testament to the fact that, when the players can be bothered trying, we are a better side than we have been since 2006.

We made the Dogs, coming off a strong performance against the at-the-time flawless Dockers, look pathetic. We made Richmond look soft by attacking the ball and hunting them down (watch the game again. It's much more fun than watching anything we've done since the bye, for starters). We beat Geelong by playing four quarters of team-oriented football.

If anything, those performance makes the bad losses worse. Under Neeld we weren't capable of anything, so what was the difference really. This year, we are capable of more, a lot more, which reinforces what the true problem is - effort.

  On 24/08/2015 at 12:30, titan_uranus said:

Jones is too important to our midfield. Watts is finally developing into a best 22 player.

The others, agreed. Frost, Pedersen and someone else (don't care who) in for Dunn, Dawes and Garland.

Howe, Grimes, Cross and Lumumba out too.

Let Jones and Vince, and then Viney and McDonald, lead the club, and rid the club of the absolute disaster material that is the aforementioned players.

My problem with Jones is he's just a key component of the best and absolute worst of Melbourne. I actually think we could benefit from giving him a fresh start elsewhere. I don't believe he has a willingness to win and I think he epitomises the losing culture.

How many midfield pieces have we added in the last few years? I truly believe we will linger in neutral until he and a few others are moved on

Not necessarily bad players, just the club's "losers". I think all parties involved would benefit.

The problem is that Roos hasn't done what he said he would do. He said when he arrived that he would promote players who were knocking down the door at Casey and that under-performing players would be demoted. When has that actually happened? Max Gawn is the only player who has been promoted on the back of good form at Casey. Who has been dropped? Jack Watts, and he did it himself! Roos has been playing a conservative game of selecting the safe side regardless of form or the effort they are giving and ignoring the fringe players trying their guts out at Casey. Of course we're getting an insipid effort on game day when the players see that consistent form and effort aren't rewarded while slack selfish play isn't being punished.

You want to see a real fighting effort from the side in the next two weeks? Promote the four or five players from Casey who have been consistently in the best, regardless of who they are or what people think of them, and drop the same number of players from the senior side who have been slacking off. I don't care if that means bring in in Jordie McKenzie and Dean Terlich for the last two games or dropping someone from the leadership group to make way for them. It has to be done. You can't do any more harm to the club's image than you've already done this year.

For mine, I say bring in Jordie McKenzie, Aiden RIley, Mark Jamar, Jack Fitzpatrick and Mitch White, all of whom have had good runs of form and should have been called up well before this had Roos been true to his word.

Drop Lamumba, Dawes, Howe, Brayshaw (he's cooked and should have been rested weeks ago) and whoever else isn't performing. The point is that it would be rewarding the players who have done the right thing and worked hard at Casey, it would be punishing the players who aren't putting in for hte seniors, and it would tell the entire list that they aren't safe and they'd damn well better put in if they want to keep playing.

  On 24/08/2015 at 12:22, Jaded said:

Gary Lyon, as much as I dislike him sometimes, nailed it just now on Footy Classifieds.

No effort, no pressure, no contest, no care, no energy. Heart breaking stuff.

Lazy senior players being shown up for not chasing, not manning up, it's pathetic. Beyond pathetic actually.

Scarily Caro is also right to question why Roos hasn't been able to remove that negativity, and why with new president, new CEO, new board, new coaching panel and nearly a new playing list, why is there still negativity?

Lyon is a fan, he's just like the rest of us but with a bigger audience. He had way too much say in the downfall of Bailey and I won't forget how he backed the wrong people in and is in a big part responsible for where we are now.

I'm not interested in his opinions of the MFC. There are some posters here I rate much more than him.

  On 24/08/2015 at 12:29, old dee said:

Caught them on off days don't fool yourself we are not much chop.

Top four sides kill us look what the dogs did to us two weeks ago.

And watch this weekend mindset will mean bugger all.

You're the type that thinks we're lucky whenever we win and that the opposition had a downer.

Of course, that's rubbish.

How many coaches can we blame?

  On 24/08/2015 at 13:28, Davos said:

How many coaches can we blame?

We can blame the coach for the things he does wrong. Overall the team and the list has improved, but we still get days like yesterday. Yes, the team just didn't bother showing up, but part of that is the coach. Who is responsible for teaching the players to kick? Who is responsible for teaching them how to work together instead of getting in each other's way? Who is responsible for selecting the teams? These are all things that fall squarely on the coaching staff, and we rightly want to know why they are not being done properly.

  On 24/08/2015 at 12:36, RalphiusMaximus said:

The problem is that Roos hasn't done what he said he would do. He said when he arrived that he would promote players who were knocking down the door at Casey and that under-performing players would be demoted. When has that actually happened? Max Gawn is the only player who has been promoted on the back of good form at Casey. Who has been dropped? Jack Watts, and he did it himself! Roos has been playing a conservative game of selecting the safe side regardless of form or the effort they are giving and ignoring the fringe players trying their guts out at Casey. Of course we're getting an insipid effort on game day when the players see that consistent form and effort aren't rewarded while slack selfish play isn't being punished.

You want to see a real fighting effort from the side in the next two weeks? Promote the four or five players from Casey who have been consistently in the best, regardless of who they are or what people think of them, and drop the same number of players from the senior side who have been slacking off. I don't care if that means bring in in Jordie McKenzie and Dean Terlich for the last two games or dropping someone from the leadership group to make way for them. It has to be done. You can't do any more harm to the club's image than you've already done this year.

For mine, I say bring in Jordie McKenzie, Aiden RIley, Mark Jamar, Jack Fitzpatrick and Mitch White, all of whom have had good runs of form and should have been called up well before this had Roos been true to his word.

Drop Lamumba, Dawes, Howe, Brayshaw (he's cooked and should have been rested weeks ago) and whoever else isn't performing. The point is that it would be rewarding the players who have done the right thing and worked hard at Casey, it would be punishing the players who aren't putting in for hte seniors, and it would tell the entire list that they aren't safe and they'd damn well better put in if they want to keep playing.

There is a reason why we haven't promoted any of the following: Jordie McKenzie, Aiden Riley, Mark Jamar, Jack Fitzpatrick, Mitch White.

Jordie Mckenzie: at this stage of his career he is a tagger, doesn't seem to make good decisions and doesn't use the ball well. At the moment, Jack Viney is taking his poisiton in the team and it should stay that way.

Aiden Riley: we've watched him play a few AFL matches this season. At this stage I don't think he has shown enough to warrant his selection. Viv Mitchie is a better player and has been knocking the door down.

Mark Jamar: who does he replace in the team. Apart from Carlton's game, Max Gawn has been in very good form. Jamar can't play at full forward, so who's position does he take.

Jack Fitzpatrick: has strung together only a few good games, without being outstanding. Played one good AFL game and then player an absolute shocker. Who's position does he take down back?

Mitch White: still a rookie, he is showing signs so hopefully he can further develop. Still has only played a number of senior VFL games this season, so is it too early to promote him?

These players are the ones pushing for spots in our senior team. This is our biggest problem... where is the competition for spots? Even though players play well in the VFL for casey they aren't pushing that form to senior level or they just aren't good enough. Only players that add depth and even then aren't quality players are Rohan Bail and Matt Jones.

Adam Yze is the skills and kicking coach of Hawthorn.. go figure

  On 24/08/2015 at 13:39, dtrinh said:

There is a reason why we haven't promoted any of the following: Jordie McKenzie, Aiden Riley, Mark Jamar, Jack Fitzpatrick, Mitch White.

Jordie Mckenzie: at this stage of his career he is a tagger, doesn't seem to make good decisions and doesn't use the ball well. At the moment, Jack Viney is taking his poisiton in the team and it should stay that way.

Aiden Riley: we've watched him play a few AFL matches this season. At this stage I don't think he has shown enough to warrant his selection. Viv Mitchie is a better player and has been knocking the door down.

Mark Jamar: who does he replace in the team. Apart from Carlton's game, Max Gawn has been in very good form. Jamar can't play at full forward, so who's position does he take.

Jack Fitzpatrick: has strung together only a few good games, without being outstanding. Played one good AFL game and then player an absolute shocker. Who's position does he take down back?

Mitch White: still a rookie, he is showing signs so hopefully he can further develop. Still has only played a number of senior VFL games this season, so is it too early to promote him?

These players are the ones pushing for spots in our senior team. This is our biggest problem... where is the competition for spots? Even though players play well in the VFL for casey they aren't pushing that form to senior level or they just aren't good enough. Only players that add depth and even then aren't quality players are Rohan Bail and Matt Jones.

Yes they are all flawed players, but will they make the side worse? The one thing we know we'll get from them is effort. Added to that, it's simply the right thing to do. As I have repeatedly said, Roos has not been following through. He needs to reward these players because they are the only ones at the club who have consistently done what they are payed to do. To continue to ignore them in favour of payers who are coasting is to perpetuate the poor culture he was hired to eliminate.

  On 24/08/2015 at 10:26, The heart beats true said:

I'm acutely aware of the irony of being on Demonland and talking about what he said but I'll paraphrase it here:

We as a club (not just a team of players, but as supporters, administrators, everyone) are overly negative. We say things like 'of course we'll lose to Carlton'. We manifest poor behaviour. He didn't excuse himself from it, he just said it was unique to Melbourne as a club. He said we need to turn that around as a group. All of us.

Sadly I know exactly what he was talking about. Not sure yet what we can do, but it's got to be something.

So basically he said we, as a club, suffer from MFCSS?

Here is an article on Roos' 360 comments last night: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-24/email-criticism-riles-roos?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=RSS+feed%3A+AFL+Latest+Newswhere he says it is offensive to be asked about his commitment to the club and hurt over the team's performances.

To be honest, reading that article and seeing our anguished coach on 360 having to defend himself against anonymous keyboard warriors, made me embarrassed to be a Melbourne supporter. Roos has every right to be offended. His responses on 360 showed a lot more dignity and respect than those who bombard him with emails.

Most coaches' media grilling ends with the post game press conf. But Roos subjects himself to a second grilling on 360 each week.

He could ask the panel to play down our games. He doesn't. He takes the flak as he would take a pack tackle in his playing days: Standing up, never flinch then roll with the punches.

I admire his grit.

It is up to the players to show similar grit and start doing their job, consistently!

  On 24/08/2015 at 22:10, Lucifer said:

Here is an article on Roos' 360 comments last night: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-24/email-criticism-riles-roos?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=RSS+feed%3A+AFL+Latest+Newswhere he says it is offensive to be asked about his commitment to the club and hurt over the team's performances.

To be honest reading, that article and seeing our coach on 360 having to defend himself against anonymous keyboard warriors, made me embarrassed to be a Melbourne supporter. Roos has every right to be offended. He showed a lot more dignity and respect than those who bombard him with emails.

Most coaches' media grilling ends with the post game press conf. But Roos subjects himself to a second grilling on 360 each week.

He could ask the panel to play down our games. He doesn't. He takes the flak as he would take a pack tackle in his playing days. Standing up then roll with the punches.

I admire his grit.

It is up to the players to show similar grit and start doing their job, consistently!

I agree.. And if you read into his presser.. The look in his eyes screams out he is going to cull this absolute hell out of this list for a 3rd time!

If you haven't been injured long term this year and aren't a first/second year.. Catch ya!!

  On 24/08/2015 at 10:14, Return to Glory said:

But apart from these minor quibbles you're pretty upbeat Jnr Mac?

There's not much to be positive about.

Goody will have a huge say in the End of season culling.

It won't stop at the players.

Midfield coach Matthews that took over from Goody mid season was a disaster.

McPherson as Forward coach you are joking.

Those two guys would coach the best players and turn them into duds.

I've also lost confidence in Rawlings.

I think there has been a total lack of communication between Roos and his assistants.

  On 24/08/2015 at 12:22, Jaded said:

Gary Lyon, as much as I dislike him sometimes, nailed it just now on Footy Classifieds.

No effort, no pressure, no contest, no care, no energy. Heart breaking stuff.

Lazy senior players being shown up for not chasing, not manning up, it's pathetic. Beyond pathetic actually.

Scarily Caro is also right to question why Roos hasn't been able to remove that negativity, and why with new president, new CEO, new board, new coaching panel and nearly a new playing list, why is there still negativity?

Can't believe you haven't quoted Lloyd, who probably nailed it squared.

  On 24/08/2015 at 22:10, Lucifer said:

Here is an article on Roos' 360 comments last night: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-24/email-criticism-riles-roos?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=RSS+feed%3A+AFL+Latest+Newswhere he says it is offensive to be asked about his commitment to the club and hurt over the team's performances.

To be honest, reading that article and seeing our anguished coach on 360 having to defend himself against anonymous keyboard warriors, made me embarrassed to be a Melbourne supporter. Roos has every right to be offended. His responses on 360 showed a lot more dignity and respect than those who bombard him with emails.

Most coaches' media grilling ends with the post game press conf. But Roos subjects himself to a second grilling on 360 each week.

He could ask the panel to play down our games. He doesn't. He takes the flak as he would take a pack tackle in his playing days: Standing up, never flinch then roll with the punches.

I admire his grit.

It is up to the players to show similar grit and start doing their job, consistently!

The 'veil of negativity' is there allright. But whats causing it ? It's constantly being thumped because we don't turn up to play.

Roos doesn't know what to to do. He tells where they went wrong. They have lots of meetings about how to fix it and he then expects players to go out and do it. He seems genuinely shocked when they don't.

He clearly needed no motivation as a player and didn't need 'revving up'. When he was at the Swans he had plenty of leadership around the club. There was plenty of self motivation, pride and team ethic. The world has changed with young players clearly needing a rev up, melbourne clearly lacking leadership, pride, motivation and team ethic.

To blame a veil of negativity is actually a real cop out from the consultant. He identified before he got here. He said when he came here that the players needed a hug. He understood that they had been battered by all and sundry and his way forward was to cotton wool them. Well that's fine to a certain extent at the beginning but 2 yrs down the track to actually be sitting there and not knowing WTF is going on in the heads of his players is a damning indictment on his coaching skills.

And then to say he gets upset at supporters questioning his commitment? Well supporters are pretty frustrated Paul. We can't really see a game plan, our best seems OK to win a few games against the middle teams but I would suggest there is more passion in the supporters than there is in your players. Despite being repeatedly smacked in the head by this club we turn up every week with optimism and hope. This team has killed that.

So yeah, we are pretty unhappy. And we are even more unhappy when our coach doesn't know what to do about it. Because he is the guy that should.

  On 24/08/2015 at 22:14, Coup Cooper said:

I agree.. And if you read into his presser.. The look in his eyes screams out he is going to cull this absolute hell out of this list for a 3rd time!

If you haven't been injured long term this year and aren't a first/second year.. Catch ya!!

Oh dear, that's going to be a lot of players. I'm skeptical of revolutionary change because it generates instability. It's too erratic.

Jamar

M Jones

Terlich

Grimes

Riley

Garland

Howe

Dunn

Bail

They will either be at another AFL club or in the VFL or amateur leagues. If you chop them you need to bring in depth and role models. Problem is that the gap was too big and, really, this off-season will be part 2 of the rebuild.

Fmd.

It's great that roos can identify the negativity aspect and it's affect, but to be honest we need more than motherhood statements on 360 from him as to "how do we as a club address this?" - I felt like saying that's your job mate that's why we brought you in and pay you a premium because your an experienced senior coach & you've come from a winning culture at the bloods He should have known this from the very start, if he underestimated it then he was naive and should have asked more questions. Ultimately we don't know exactly what goes on behind closed doors with the playing group, but to my mind the last couple of weeks highlight that roosys will need to be bold in the off season (even Robbo slid that comment in last nite too) we need on field leaders or at least future leaders. I think we as a club (however unlikely...here's my mfc negativity ...) to try and lure a captain courageous type to the club, I don't know how you do it..money, offer captaincy, use free agency... I don't know but that's what we pay roosy for and we lured him here even if it seemed unlikely at the time... just like carlton stole barassi from the club in its hayday we need to do the same...

  On 24/08/2015 at 21:36, deanox said:

So basically he said we, as a club, suffer from MFCSS?

He should just read Demonland, we know everything

People suggesting Dunn will be moved on are kidding themselves. He is a good 3rd tall defender who rarely gets beaten.

Definitely think the following will be gone:

- Terlich

- Bail

- Garland

- Howe

- Riley

- Jamar

That's six changes already with a few others as possibilities. The issue is we need to be able to replace these guys.

  On 24/08/2015 at 22:57, Jaded said:

He should just read Demonland, we know everything

Well, we diagnosed the syndrome about 5 years ago...

I think 'calming down' would be a good option.

We have to be ruthless with how we go about this summer coming up and sometimes that doesn't just mean cutting everyone. Sometimes it means sticking fat with a few players and lighting a fire under them and asking them to give more and to ask for more.

The mindset of the players is troubling to say the least but, and as pathetic as this sounds, the mindset has improved compared to previous seasons.

We are asking why can we get up for Collingwood and Geelong and Richmond but lose to Essendon and Carlton and play poorly against Brisbane.

That wasn't a question we asked last year - it's a new paradigm where we see senior players incapable of sharing a consistent load week to week and being contributors to this inert mindset. Roos has to take some of the blame for how pervasive that inertia is at the moment.

But, and there always is a 'but,' we have to keep our heads and make solid decisions absent too much emotion - if you want to build a club that Hogan, Brayshaw, Petracca, and Viney want to be a part of and mould, then we have to show them that we don't panic and that we will stick to path we have sold them.