Kennedy signed a four year deal with the Swans in 2013 where he stated that he would be forever grateful to the swans for the opportunity they gave him after the trade from the hawks and that he wanted to play for a successful club.

Im not thinking he is the big fish personally.

Things can change pretty quickly. What if they looked to trade him? Still, I think you're probably right, mate. I doubt he's going anywhere.

Personally, I think the Roos are shooting themselves in the foot. It's very reminiscent of the last few years of Daniher's reign at Melbourne. They've got a bunch of blokes that are 27 and above, while there is a dearth of young talent on their list. They are going to crash and burn, IMO.

That said, for our needs and where our list is at, I'd be jumping at JPK.

Rubbish. NDS, Waite and Higgins as free agents cost them nothing, and without them they wouldn't have made the finals. A fit Wells would have made a huge difference. All their 1st year recruits this year suffered injuries, so you can't judge how they'll turn out. Kids like McDonald and Dumont would be regulars in our side.

Rubbish. NDS, Waite and Higgins as free agents cost them nothing, and without them they wouldn't have made the finals. A fit Wells would have made a huge difference. All their 1st year recruits this year suffered injuries, so you can't judge how they'll turn out. Kids like McDonald and Dumont would be regulars in our side.

They cost them nothing except places on their list, which will hurt them long term.

Which team has the most salary cap pressure?

Melbourne indicating they would have paid over the odds for Dangerfield (whether it be true or not...maybe a ploy) surely encourages Adelaide to play hardball with Geelong. It puts Adelaide in the mindset of 'let's not get ripped off here'.

Rubbish. NDS, Waite and Higgins as free agents cost them nothing, and without them they wouldn't have made the finals. A fit Wells would have made a huge difference. All their 1st year recruits this year suffered injuries, so you can't judge how they'll turn out. Kids like McDonald and Dumont would be regulars in our side.

LOL you are incredibly out of touch. They brought in those guys for instant success. They will be gone either next year or the year after. You named 2 kids who are probably the next batch of up and coming youngsters.. The rest aļl had serious injuries that could distrupt their development. Who is their next ruckman after Goldstien? Or their next key forward after Petrie? Do they have an emerging backman after Thompson?

They are finished in 2 or 3 years time.

There aren't many A graders of that age who continue A grade performance if not surrounded by equivalent players.

Ablett.

A grade is A grade.

LOL you are incredibly out of touch. They brought in those guys for instant success. They will be gone either next year or the year after. You named 2 kids who are probably the next batch of up and coming youngsters.. The rest aļl had serious injuries that could distrupt their development. Who is their next ruckman after Goldstien? Or their next key forward after Petrie? Do they have an emerging backman after Thompson?

They are finished in 2 or 3 years time.

While NM's list looks like it is downward heading, the Kangas may be able to convince the football world that they are still a top side and land free agents. Geelong are in a similar position at the moment, but Dangerfield could see them competing for a flag again.

While NM's list looks like it is downward heading, the Kangas may be able to convince the football world that they are still a top side and land free agents. Geelong are in a similar position at the moment, but Dangerfield could see them competing for a flag again.

Spot on. The football landscape has totally changed from the Daniher era. Not only with free agency, but out of contract players nominating a preferred destination. Successful clubs will top up year after year. Any club that thinks about bottoming out as some are suggesting, will spend a long time out of the finals like us. Only morons like Hutchie think that North are going about it the wrong way.

They cost them nothing except places on their list, which will hurt them long term.

Lol. They would be taken by picks 60+. The only player of note that they've lost was Greenwood, and they've got plenty of his type to cover the loss.

Spot on. The football landscape has totally changed from the Daniher era. Not only with free agency, but out of contract players nominating a preferred destination. Successful clubs will top up year after year. Any club that thinks about bottoming out as some are suggesting, will spend a long time out of the finals like us. Only morons like Hutchie think that North are going about it the wrong way.

Lol. They would be taken by picks 60+. The only player of note that they've lost was Greenwood, and they've got plenty of his type to cover the loss.

They will have a great shot of playing in the grand final next year.

After that, they will lose a heap of players who are best 22. They really need to get rid of some deadwood off their list as well.

They will have a great shot of playing in the grand final next year.

After that, they will lose a heap of players who are best 22. They really need to get rid of some deadwood off their list as well.

Cant agree, doggies will take another step, port will be back, then you've got Hawks/Eagles/Freo if they trade well. North just scrapped into 8th. Their first two wins in the finals didn't mean much in my book.

Cant agree, doggies will take another step, port will be back, then you've got Hawks/Eagles/Freo if they trade well. North just scrapped into 8th. Their first two wins in the finals didn't mean much in my book.

Lol! A Melbourne fan claiming that 2 wins in a finals series from 8th place doesn't mean much! Now I've heard it all.

Cant agree, doggies will take another step, port will be back, then you've got Hawks/Eagles/Freo if they trade well. North just scrapped into 8th. Their first two wins in the finals didn't mean much in my book.

As Port found out this year, a place in the finals isn't guaranteed. How many games against top 8 sides did the Dogs win? They'll have a harder draw next year. Fantastic effort by North to make back to back prelims.

The thing is...get a player like Kennedy in and he'll give you probably 4 good years of high grade footy.

Our own developing players start to come into the mix and you rely less and less on the imports but as you become a better team it actually becomes easier to keep topping up on good players as youre seen as a good place to play footy.

its a process..an evolution

exactly, blzb, finally someone gets it. we have to start somewhere, when A grade players don't want to move.

.... & we must have more quality Leadership. & finals winning experience.

Kennedy may be the one we can? get. Let see what pans out. I'm sure we'll get one at least. & if JKennedy falls out, there's always a Steve Austin somewhere , or a Patrick McGoohan

Who was it that said Plowman wasn't a fan of Todd Viney?

Funny, because I recall TV waxing lyrical about LP at a club function leading up to the draft.

It's not like we overlooked him - we didn't get the option to take him.

I'd be happy with a Bugg/Plowman/Tomlinson combo for an early pick.

To Browne reckons Tomlinson wants out

Lol! A Melbourne fan claiming that 2 wins in a finals series from 8th place doesn't mean much! Now I've heard it all.

Wasnt it you yesterday saying "Because that's what I meant....FMD"?

Wasn't that your response when someone misinterpreted what you said. Maybe you haven't misinterpreted mine maybe we just look at football differently.

Teams that were hoping to make finals last year but didn't in Suns/Giants/Pies plus let's add the Doggies who did make it and teams that were a little way off like us and the Saints(I didn't include Port because they had an off year and will bounce back) Now if any of those won those two finals being Richmond and Sydney to me you could say they have improved this year.

Norths home and away season consisted of 2 wins over Essendon/Lions/Geelong, a 9 point win over the Eagles early in the season and a 11 point win over Fremantle late in the year. It also includes routine losses to the Hawks and a full strength Sydney, an absolute drubbing against Fremantle when they were steamrolling sides early in the season and late season losses to the Suns and Dogs. I remember hearing late in the year North have won 7 straight and then you look at who they played. They made a prelim last year after beating the Bombers by 12 and Geelong by 6 before having their pants removed by Sydney. That's why in the finals thread after North beat Sydney I said "look at the players carrying on, look at Brayshaw and Scott carrying on, getting around handing out high fives and touching each other. Where were the leaders saying calm down we haven't achieved anything yet".

Richmond defeated Freo/Sydney/Hawks all at close to full strength on their home grounds but finals are different. They were destined to choke again and they did. Vickers who kicked 6/7? against the Pies only weeks earlier couldn't hit them from 20 out straight in front. The Tigers of old had returned to haunt themselves as many predicted. North managed to bumble across the line only coming good late in the game. Then North played Sydney minus Buddy/Reid/Parker/Jack plus Lewis Jetta who was already trying on Freo's jumper and cooked players in Shaw/Goodes/McVeigh and Richards. To be honest that was the only final game I missed but from all reports the game was a mess with both sides making simple errors and poor skills on display. North surprised a lot of people including myself against the Eagles but they lost. Yes there were some bad umpiring decisions that went both ways. Now maybe this is just me because most teams do it but North and Richmond play for the most frees, throwing their heads back/ducking in tackles of trying to barge their way out of congestion head first. Norths final campaign was drew big donuts, as I previously said had they played Dogs/Crows week 1 or Hawks week 2 they would have been knocked out earlier.

16 other clubs will hope that Richmond and North don't change their coach and again pick up the scraps with regards to trades/free agency because that will mean more of the same from two of the biggest pretenders in recent times.

Our club needs only to look as far as the Hawks on Friday night, yes they sung the song with gusto but there was no North Melbourne like carry on. We get wrapped up by winning a home and away match then get flogged the following week. That's why the mentally weak/scarred non competitive players on our list must be removed ASAP.

Cant agree, doggies will take another step, port will be back, then you've got Hawks/Eagles/Freo if they trade well. North just scrapped into 8th. Their first two wins in the finals didn't mean much in my book.

I thought North were tremendous in winning 2 finals.

They're 4-2 in finals over the last 2 years which is a good record in anyone's language.

I hate North as much as the next Melbourne supporter but credit where credit is due - finals wins are hard to get.

Edited September 28, 20159 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

I thought North were tremendous in winning 2 finals.

They're 4-2 in finals over the last 2 years which is a good record in anyone's language.

I hate North as much as the next Melbourne supporter but credit where credit is due - finals wins are hard get.

Four wins

Last year

1 - Essendon, enough said.

2 - Cats, a team in decline.

This year

3 - Richmond, chokers, jump at their own shadows come September.

4 - Sydney, severely undermanned.

I think the Dogs got more out of this final series than North.

That's the way I look at it anyway.

Edited September 28, 20159 yr by Al's Demons

Our club needs only to look as far as the Hawks on Friday night, yes they sung the song with gusto but there was no North Melbourne like carry on. We get wrapped up by winning a home and away match then get flogged the following week. That's why the mentally weak/scarred non competitive players on our list must be removed ASAP.

I am coming around to this need for culture change. The new players still have a burning hunger to succeed, whereas the older players could well be burnt out by constant failure. Anyway we will have changed 75% of the list by December.

I spoke with someone in our FD before the start of this season, and one thing he pointed out was that 2015 would be a bit rocky, mainly because the team had played bugger all footy together. However, he did say that 2016 was going to be the start of the exciting times for us (implying the team will know each other better after 12 months with each other).

Keeping that in mind, and the fact that we've had 6 players gone already, I'd be surprised if there will be too many more list changes, unless the "deal of a lifetime" comes up.

While we still need to remove a number of players to improve, we also need stability. The upside of keeping the likes of Matt Jones and Dean Terlich around for another season is that they will play a lot of footy at Casey in 2016, but if needed in the seniors, they will know the role they need to play, and will know the players around them. That's not to say they'll play that role well, but there were games this year where M Jones wasn't a liability.

Doing this will then see us needing to move only a handful on at the end of next season, giving all players the opportunity to develop as a team.

With AVB being upgraded, we have 5 spots on the list. I'd imagine we will be trying to get two players during the Trade/FA period that will be starting 18, leaving 3 spots to take to the draft. If we find other "starting 18" players wanting to join us, then the likes of MJones/Terlich will be pushed out, otherwise, they'll be with us in 2016.

Four wins

Last year

1 - Essendon, enough said.

2 - Cats, a team in decline.

This year

3 - Richmond, chokers, jump at their own shadows come September.

4 - Sydney, severely undermanned.

I think the Dogs got more out of this final series than North.

That's the way I look at it anyway.

That's totally illogical, and every AFL coach would tell you how hard it is to win a final. They'd also tell you that you need to be consistently playing in finals to eventually achieve your goal of ultimate success. North learnt from last year, and played at a higher level in the finals this year.

I spoke with someone in our FD before the start of this season, and one thing he pointed out was that 2015 would be a bit rocky, mainly because the team had played bugger all footy together. However, he did say that 2016 was going to be the start of the exciting times for us (implying the team will know each other better after 12 months with each other).

Keeping that in mind, and the fact that we've had 6 players gone already, I'd be surprised if there will be too many more list changes, unless the "deal of a lifetime" comes up.

While we still need to remove a number of players to improve, we also need stability. The upside of keeping the likes of Matt Jones and Dean Terlich around for another season is that they will play a lot of footy at Casey in 2016, but if needed in the seniors, they will know the role they need to play, and will know the players around them. That's not to say they'll play that role well, but there were games this year where M Jones wasn't a liability.

Doing this will then see us needing to move only a handful on at the end of next season, giving all players the opportunity to develop as a team.

With AVB being upgraded, we have 5 spots on the list. I'd imagine we will be trying to get two players during the Trade/FA period that will be starting 18, leaving 3 spots to take to the draft. If we find other "starting 18" players wanting to join us, then the likes of MJones/Terlich will be pushed out, otherwise, they'll be with us in 2016.

What about Harmes? I'd be staggered if at least 2/3 out of Howe, Garland, Grimes, Toumpas, Jones and Terlich aren't moved on.

I am coming around to this need for culture change. The new players still have a burning hunger to succeed, whereas the older players could well be burnt out by constant failure. Anyway we will have changed 75% of the list by December.

Interesting watching the Brownlow coverage last night. They interviewed a bunch of people including Nat Fyfe's neighbour growing up - Cale Morton. What stood out is that they singled out Fyfe's competitiveness. Morton was the more highly touted junior, but arguably Fyfe was the kid prepared to crawl over broken glass to taste success. Fyfe has a Brownlow and Morton is no longer on an AFL list. I think the club is now onto this.

I spoke with someone in our FD before the start of this season, and one thing he pointed out was that 2015 would be a bit rocky, mainly because the team had played bugger all footy together. However, he did say that 2016 was going to be the start of the exciting times for us (implying the team will know each other better after 12 months with each other).

Keeping that in mind, and the fact that we've had 6 players gone already, I'd be surprised if there will be too many more list changes, unless the "deal of a lifetime" comes up.

While we still need to remove a number of players to improve, we also need stability. The upside of keeping the likes of Matt Jones and Dean Terlich around for another season is that they will play a lot of footy at Casey in 2016, but if needed in the seniors, they will know the role they need to play, and will know the players around them. That's not to say they'll play that role well, but there were games this year where M Jones wasn't a liability.

Doing this will then see us needing to move only a handful on at the end of next season, giving all players the opportunity to develop as a team.

With AVB being upgraded, we have 5 spots on the list. I'd imagine we will be trying to get two players during the Trade/FA period that will be starting 18, leaving 3 spots to take to the draft. If we find other "starting 18" players wanting to join us, then the likes of MJones/Terlich will be pushed out, otherwise, they'll be with us in 2016.

Interesting and thanks for the info.

Much can change over the course of a year and judging by comments made this year after certain losses and similar periods of non-competitive and skill-less football as last year, Roos and co have surely come to the understanding that the list still needs a lot of work. In all areas.

Looking closely at the six players that have already been moved on, it would be fair to say that Jamar, Bail, McKenzie, Riley and Fitzpatrick offered us very little in the way of 'depth'. One of many problems with our list is that not only do we not have quality depth, we don't even have decent depth. Clearly this was evidenced by Roos' desire to play underdeveloped first year players off the back of very limited pre-seasons in ANB, Stretch and Vandenberg, and a refusal to play those aforementioned, much older and more experienced names.

In knowing that, is it not obvious as to why we'd be trying to target out-of-form but talented players like Melksham? Or do posters still struggle to recognise this?

Again, I'll remind you that Melksham's 2013 season shits all over anything that Bail, McKenzie and Riley have produced throughout their careers and he possess a skill-set that is greater than theirs.

List management and changes at a club like ours is clearly a more difficult and complex process than at most other clubs. We don't have the luxury of only targeting A-grade talent through trade period and then drafting well. We have to target depth, talent, senior leadership, role-playing and we have to nail our drafting. Targeting depth players like Melksham with the scope for improvement is nothing short of a necessity for the MFC at this point in time.

After this time next year and if all goes to plan, list changes won't be anywhere near as drastic as what we've witnessed over the past few years. Get our depth right, develop our kids right and keep nailing the draft, bring in a couple more older and more experienced heads to continue to help nurture and bring in at least on A grader into the midfield, (hopefully two) and we'll continue to rise.

Edited September 29, 20159 yr by stevethemanjordan