1 hour ago, Dees2014 said:

BB, they have - his name was David Evans, and he not only got rolled by Hird, but had a breakdown as a result. He still is the only honest one amongst the whole sorry and unprincipled bunch. 

I wouldn't push the honest Evans line to far 'Dees2014'...he was certainly rolled by the Hird crew and was one of the first casualties.

As for being the only honest one, well he did take the AD phone call and it looks like he was working to do a deal to minimise the damage.

Is this honesty or pragmatism?

9 hours ago, bing181 said:

Given that Robinson hasn't been penalised or charged so far, hard to see how he would get dragged over the coals for what happened beforehand.

For me, he's the one great enigma in all this. Hird may/may not have known the details (we can agree to disagree), but surely Robinson must have known exactly what was in those syringes.

It's also possible that (a) Dank was the only one that knew what was in the syringes because he didn't want anyone to know how his 'magic' worked or (b) no-one knew what was in the syringes because no-one actually tested what was in it but just believed what they were told by the supplier.

 

1 hour ago, rjay said:

I wouldn't push the honest Evans line to far 'Dees2014'...he was certainly rolled by the Hird crew and was one of the first casualties.

As for being the only honest one, well he did take the AD phone call and it looks like he was working to do a deal to minimise the damage.

Is this honesty or pragmatism?

It can be both, they aren't essentially mutually exclusive but I understand your tone.

And since Evans what have we had ?  Just the party line out of a procession of mouths. I just love their moral righteousness. "How good are we . we are taking all these new step to look after players"

Its as laughable as it is sickening.

I would have thought,  that for all that they (Essendon) can muster in defence of their integrity and honour, with solicitors, public appeals and the might of the AFL,

they cannot manage to bring the main protagonists along with the "missing baggage" to the forefront for the world to be able to support them.

I did see that some parochial people in the press are quite content though to drag in clubs like Carlton and Collingwood as if they were partly to blame

as if "arrogance and entitlement" were the same as cheating. Is demise imminent?

 

Just now, willmoy said:

I would have thought,  that for all that they (Essendon) can muster in defence of their integrity and honour, with solicitors, public appeals and the might of the AFL,

they cannot manage to bring the main protagonists along with the "missing baggage" to the forefront for the world to be able to support them.

I did see that some parochial people in the press are quite content though to drag in clubs like Carlton and Collingwood as if they were partly to blame

as if "arrogance and entitlement" were the same as cheating. Is demise imminent?

 

Thank you! Its hard to stomach the press atm isnt it. I would say demise IS imminent and I expect soon to read endless accounts of how its unfair, over the top, that WADA is run by foriegners who dont understand "our" game, the poor players, poor James Hird, the suffering bombers and the fight to keep jobes brownlow. I expect a lot more nausea when I read the news in the next few months. 

4 hours ago, rjay said:

I wouldn't push the honest Evans line to far 'Dees2014'...he was certainly rolled by the Hird crew and was one of the first casualties.

As for being the only honest one, well he did take the AD phone call and it looks like he was working to do a deal to minimise the damage.

Is this honesty or pragmatism?

Oh I think they all should have accepted the 2013 settlement. I think it would have been the most satisfactory outcome all round. It was supported by ASADA, the AFL, the Federal Government, the ASC, Essendon (under Evans) and was strongly pushed by the league's crisis management consultants at the time under their current PR Director Liz Lukin who was responsible for most of it anyway. The only problem was that Hird had to admit guilt and resign, but his sociopathic personality and that of his wife could not bring themselves to do that. 

The fault lies with both Essendon and the AFL, who simply were too weak to force him out - a monumental deficiency in corporate leadership and competence which does  no-one any credit.

 

And they want to bring him back to the fold. The mind boggles.

1 hour ago, Dees2014 said:

Oh I think they all should have accepted the 2013 settlement. I think it would have been the most satisfactory outcome all round. It was supported by ASADA, the AFL, the Federal Government, the ASC, Essendon (under Evans) and was strongly pushed by the league's crisis management consultants at the time under their current PR Director Liz Lukin who was responsible for most of it anyway. The only problem was that Hird had to admit guilt and resign, but his sociopathic personality and that of his wife could not bring themselves to do that. 

The fault lies with both Essendon and the AFL, who simply were too weak to force him out - a monumental deficiency in corporate leadership and competence which does  no-one any credit.

 

It may be correct to say they should have accepted the 2013 settlement!  But rjay's post which you are quoting, was about your claim that Evans "... still is the only honest one amongst the whole sorry and unprincipled bunch" and you seem to have side-stepped his question.  Was Evans honest?

BTW, I think binman's question to you last week is still unanswered. 

Edited December 16, 20159 yr by Lucifer's Hero

2 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

Oh I think they all should have accepted the 2013 settlement. I think it would have been the most satisfactory outcome all round. It was supported by ASADA, the AFL, the Federal Government, the ASC, Essendon (under Evans) and was strongly pushed by the league's crisis management consultants at the time under their current PR Director Liz Lukin who was responsible for most of it anyway. The only problem was that Hird had to admit guilt and resign, but his sociopathic personality and that of his wife could not bring themselves to do that. 

The fault lies with both Essendon and the AFL, who simply were too weak to force him out - a monumental deficiency in corporate leadership and competence which does  no-one any credit.

 

 

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

It may be correct to say they should have accepted the 2013 settlement!  But rjay's post which you are quoting, was about your claim that Evans "... still is the only honest one amongst the whole sorry and unprincipled bunch" and you seem to have side-stepped his question.  Was Evans honest?

BTW, I think binman's question to you last week is still unanswered. 

...and it would have been another AFL cover up if they had accepted the settlement.

I'm happy it's gone to the CAS as it's now the only way that we may find some truth.

Not what the AFL want or EFC but sport could well be the winner here.

5 hours ago, beelzebub said:

And they want to bring him back to the fold. The mind boggles.

No lessons learnt. No recognition of past wrongs. No accountability for a coach that has caused so much damage to the game, the club and individuals. No moral compass. No new beginning for a once great club. 

As you say Comrade, the mind boggles.

Presumably an attempt to get the Hird faction back on board. However, you can't heal the rifts without accepting the wrongs done to the game, to the club and to so many individuals. It's like welcoming Gordon Gecko back to Wall Street. Except this is real.

Scoop Maclure just tweeted that the Bombers will know their fate before Christmas Day.  The end is nigh...

On 15/12/2015 at 9:27 AM, jnrmac said:

So, we did nothing wrong. Jab should keep his brownlow. Hird should be welcomed back.

FMD these guys just do not get it.

1. Ban all the players

2. Jab to hand back Browlnow and it be re-issued to Mitchell and Cotchin

3. Ban Hird from all sport worldwide for life.

4. Ban little from being a company director for life.

5. Ban Dr Reid from practising medicine anywhere on this earth but particularly anywhere near young men/women and sports.

6. Ban the club from the next 5 drafts.

 

I think there's a number 7 here. As any guilty players will still be reaping the rewards of the injections post any suspension, I don't think it's fair that they would still be able to play for the offending club. Quite likely they won't want to, but just in case I'd suggest there needs to be a mini draft held to disperse all guilty players to other clubs. None should be allowed to remain at EFC.

According to Mclure Young has 'blown people out of the water with the way he reconstructed the line of evidence'. Good signs maybe?

http://m.3aw.com.au/news/essendons-fate-with-wada-to-be-known-by-christmas-says-sam-mcclure-20151216-glpbch.html

 

Most replies to 3AWs tweet are that asada/wada are corrupt.

Honestly even if they are found guilty no essendon fan boys will believe it

"When's Christmas?" ?

15 minutes ago, biggestred said:

http://m.3aw.com.au/news/essendons-fate-with-wada-to-be-known-by-christmas-says-sam-mcclure-20151216-glpbch.html

 

Most replies to 3AWs tweet are that asada/wada are corrupt.

Honestly even if they are found guilty no essendon fan boys will believe it

They don't even seem to realise that CAS is not WADA and therefore the corruption of WADA ,if there is any, is actually irrelevant. Just goes to show how little many of the fanboys actually know about what is going on. 

21 minutes ago, biggestred said:

http://m.3aw.com.au/news/essendons-fate-with-wada-to-be-known-by-christmas-says-sam-mcclure-20151216-glpbch.html

 

Most replies to 3AWs tweet are that asada/wada are corrupt.

Honestly even if they are found guilty no essendon fan boys will believe it

Interesting Ess has been so strong on brand this week... They must know something and are laying the ground work for the sympathy train to come chugging along.

Just a quick Mathematical problem.

What is 70,000 supporter times their membership fees? Comes to quite a few Dollars and they just might be entitled to get it

Plus all the fancy ones. Would have to be around 2million. Now that would be something....

20 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Just a quick Mathematical problem.

What is 70,000 supporter times their membership fees? Comes to quite a few Dollars and they just might be entitled to get it

Plus all the fancy ones. Would have to be around 2million. Now that would be something....

Think you missed a zero. 70,000 members times $300 each (Which is probably under the average cost) is $21 million, not 2 million. 

7 minutes ago, Chris said:

Think you missed a zero. 70,000 members times $300 each (Which is probably under the average cost) is $21 million, not 2 million. 

think that is way too high, chris

there are lots of junior mbrs, country mbrs, interstate mbrs, overseas mbrs, concession mbrs, 3 game mbrs etc, etc

i'm guessing it is way short of $200 avg, so less than 14m gross. no idea what the net return would be

As I've said several times before. The AFL sanctions were for governance failures and very specifically not for drug cheating. If they are found guilty what are the AFL going to do.   Do nothing and they let off a Club for the greatest systematic drug cheating program in AFL if not Australian sporting history.  

Can't wait to see how Gil spins this one. Of course they have to be found guilty for this to be an issue. 

Edited December 16, 20159 yr by It's Time

It's beginning to look a lot like Christma.

7 hours ago, Chris said:

They don't even seem to realise that CAS is not WADA and therefore the corruption of WADA ,if there is any, is actually irrelevant. Just goes to show how little many of the fanboys actually know about what is going on. 

Why would it be an AFL cover up if all parties (including ASADA) accepted the settlement?

 

14 hours ago, rjay said:

 

...and it would have been another AFL cover up if they had accepted the settlement.

I'm happy it's gone to the CAS as it's now the only way that we may find some truth.

Not what the AFL want or EFC but sport could well be the winner here.

 What they didn't accept though is that Hird and Reid should remain. They are the real guilty parties here. Life bans for them, and I would be quite happy, although many of you here would like Essendon obliterated from the face of the earth I understand that.

Now though, after all the game playing and obstruction, I think the book should be thrown at them. They deserve nothing less.

 

 

3 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

Why would it be an AFL cover up if all parties (including ASADA) accepted the settlement?

 

 What they didn't accept though is that Hird and Reid should remain. They are the real guilty parties here. Life bans for them, and I would be quite happy, although many of you here would like Essendon obliterated from the face of the earth I understand that.

Now though, after all the game playing and obstruction, I think the book should be thrown at them. They deserve nothing less.

 

 

It's a deal, ASADA have shown they are not above doing a deal.

I don't know about you but I'm more interested in the truth than in seeing a deal done for expediency.

23 minutes ago, rjay said:

It's a deal, ASADA have shown they are not above doing a deal.

I don't know about you but I'm more interested in the truth than in seeing a deal done for expediency.

Does CAS publish reasons for their decision? In effect, the CAS version is going to be the closest thing we'll ever get to the truth, so it would be good if they do publish their findings. And once the CAS decision is out, I hope everyone accepts it, irrespective of which side they're on in this ongoing saga.