THE SAGA CONTINUES - WADA APPEALS

[Willmoy1947 4,198]

There is only one way they (AFL) can get out of this at the moment , that is to have a public sympathy, everyone out to get us type. reason.

Then they will with Gov't blessing go and organise their own performance enhancing Code. Probably and sadly this is being worked on at the moment.

[daisycutter 29,892]

There is only one way they (AFL) can get out of this at the moment , that is to have a public sympathy, everyone out to get us type. reason.

Then they will with Gov't blessing go and organise their own performance enhancing Code. Probably and sadly this is being worked on at the moment.

govt blessing to dump wada? i'd like to see that

if they did dump wada there is no way it would be with govt blessing. the ramifications would not be worth it

[ManDee 7,319]

Get your boarding pass ready.

[ManDee 7,319]

Could this be a bargaining chip?

We will hold the trial in Australia but only under Swiss law. Is that possible? Swiss Embassy?

[beelzebub 23,390]

No need to bargain Mandee..CAS say...we're holding it wherever we damn well please...suck it up.

The game's changed. They probably dont lke it ( efc-hird) ...heart bleeds for the bastards !!

[beelzebub 23,390]

govt blessing to dump wada? i'd like to see that

if they did dump wada there is no way it would be with govt blessing. the ramifications would not be worth it

Wouldnt happen in a pink fit

We'd be ostracized from world sport

[Lucifers Hero 40,518]

Could this be a bargaining chip?

We will hold the trial in Australia but only under Swiss law. Is that possible? Swiss Embassy?

I thought of something similar ManDee.

The practical reason (supposedly) for holding it in Australia is this is where the evidence, players, lawyers etc are vs the cost of going to Switzerland.

-Of course, this is but a 'red herring' by AFL et al...they want all their current lawyers etc to have easy contact with the players' official CAS legal team eg David Grace can't represent players at CAS but he can give input to their legal team...easier if all the comings and goings are in Australia.

- That 'red herring' is merely camouflage for the hope of a more lenient jurisdiction here...

My thinking is:

1) register and undertake the appeal in Switzerland so all the argy bargy about introduction of evidence, subpoenas etc etc is sorted out in that legal jurisdiction. Legal teams for the players and WADA would attend the court.

2) to hear and receive evidence the 3 arbitors could do this by: coming to Australia for a few weeks, skype, video conferencing, email etc etc.

3) consideration/decision would happen in Switzerland.

Looks lower cost and takes away the 'supposed' practical limitations of it being held in Australia.

True independence is achieved.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[sue 9,195]

Does anyone know what happens if EFC delay/refuse to nominate a CAS judge? Can they veto the Chairman?

[beelzebub 23,390]

Does anyone know what happens if EFC delay/refuse to nominate a CAS judge? Can they veto the Chairman?

If Essendon cant/dont want to pick, one will be picked for them. Essendon have no veto. CAS do

[Dees2014 2,377]

1) I said there is no point of the AFL et al. chatting to him

2) I said that: maintain Australia's clean reputation. Not sure where you get the idea of two rules: many examples of footballers being banned eg Saad. Clean Australian sport of all types is Coates' interest, full stop!

3) I doubt they would even need to consult Coates to hold it Switzerland...blind freddy could see the need for it. If anything, he would have made a point of not being lobbied because he is Australian and needs to remain neutral in the eyes of the international community.

4) I hope not - that is just as bad as the AFL pulling the strings in the Tribunal hearing. This time the process needs to be squeaky clean.

BTW, if as you have intimated during this saga, you somehow have more than general public knowledge of this, you should not be making such comments about Coates' sway in the ultimate outcome. I am sure you are wrong but it can still be damaging.

Coates will be keenly interested but he will bend over backwards tomaintain his independence...I would go so far to say that if there was a meeting or a vote on any AFL related matter he may well absent himself or abstain.

Just because Coates would be not on the side of Essendon as I state, it does not mean he is anything other than neutral. It is not a case, as Hird and Essendon seem to think, that "if you are not for me you are against me". I have no reason to believe that Coates would be anything other than strictly neutral, but it is for this very reason that CAS and WADA will be seeking to have it heard in Switzerland. It would be impossible to have a fair hearing in Australia.

Too often in this whole saga, people who should have been neutral have shown unbelievable bias towards the Hird/little camp.

This won't happen with CAS - it will be strictly neutral, but to obtain this outcome it has to be held in Switzerland.

BTW, I do not need you to lecture me on integrity in these issues. Sure I have good sources across a variety of disciplines, and what I write is an amalgam of what they tell me. I am well aware of the protocols in these matters: I never reveal sources, breach confidences or tell lies. And on these issues. I have been mostly spot on. You can go and take your patronising comments elsewhere thank you very much!

Edited May 20, 2015 by Dees2014

[sue 9,195]

Does anyone know the time scale for this? By when do the 3 have to be appointed for a start?

[Dees2014 2,377]

No need to bargain Mandee..CAS say...we're holding it wherever we damn well please...suck it up.

The game's changed. They probably dont lke it ( efc-hird) ...heart bleeds for the bastards !!

Agree, BB. CAS hold all the cards. It is their decision where they hold it and in a case of this importance they will hold it in the place where they get the fairest outcome.

In a way, Hird and his tribe of disciples have only themselves to blame for this. Their behaviour throughout when they have tried everything to discredit ASADA, used every underhand trick in the book, manipulated their lackies in the media and academia to try to influence the outcome has come home to roost. WADA and CAS have been observing this, and would have taken notice.

They realise this same bag of tricks will be pulled out against the CAS Arbitrators if the Appeal was held in Australia, which is exactly the reason why it cannot be.

The Hird camp seem to think what goes on in Australia is not noticed by the rest of the world. I can assure them that this whole episode has been very closely monitored in Switzerland, and the outcomes noticed. For WADA, it has become a MUST WIN, otherwise it opens the door to every dodgy coach in team sports around the world to implement the same program of doping which Essendon and Hird have attempted to get away with. This cannot be allowed to happen...

[beelzebub 23,390]

Does anyone know the time scale for this? By when do the 3 have to be appointed for a start?

what ever it takes !!!

[rjay 25,306]

Does anyone know what happens if EFC delay/refuse to nominate a CAS judge? Can they veto the Chairman?

Actually it has nothing to do with EFC I would have thought. It's the players that are in the gun here and it's them or their representative that will need to nominate a judge.

[beelzebub 23,390]

Those silly lads....they really ought not have plssed WADA off !!

[beelzebub 23,390]

Actually it has nothing to do with EFC I would have thought. It's the players that are in the gun here and it's them or their representative that will need to nominate a judge.

that would be true. However unless its changed I thought EFC were bankrolling the lads. yes/no Still be up to their representative though as you say.

Lets be honest here.....its not going to mater one zac who they choose........is it....lol

[ManDee 7,319]

Patrick Smith slams Alan & James Hird for gibberish.

Essendon coach James Hird, along with his father Allan, have each been accused by Patrick Smith of using utter gibberish when talking about the supplements saga.

Hird leapt to his son’s defence over the weekend and proclaimed that the decision by WADA to take the case against the Essendon 34 to CAS was cowardly.

Furthermore, he launched attacks on ASADA and called for Parliament to restore the rights of the players involved.

“It’s a first today that a family has won Gibberish of the Week,” said Smith on SEN radio.

“Allan’s letter is just a rant, it’s not based on any fact at all.

“To say the Bombers were denied to right to participate in the 2013 finals was the work of ASADA is completely wrong – that was a matter of governance.”

James Hird was also on the front foot when talking on Crunch Time over the weekend, revealing more of his personal views on the whole saga than ever before.

He accused the media of distorting the truth to suit their own agenda because they have always believed the players were guilty.

“I think that’s gibberish of the highest order because I don’t know that James could point to the manipulation of the truth by the media,” explained Smith.

“Everyone in the media has always argued that the biggest victims in this, and the one’s who have everybody’s sympathy, are the players.”

http://www.sen.com.au/news/05-15/patrick-smith-slams-james-allan-hird-for-gibberish

[Red and Bluebeard 2,101]

Interesting that electronic News Ltd media 'journos' who are usually very outspoken have yet to place write and article re the Switzerland development. The Hird/EFC/AFL camp must be shell-shocked and are in a bunker somewhere...with lawyers of course to plot action to discredit the process or look for some other technicality to try and stop the on-coming sh.. storm.

The said 'journos' must be waiting for them to come out of the bunker with the script and spin to put in their stories.

What I like is that an aussie is head of President of CAS (John Coates) and he would be keen to see Australia's reputation for clean sport maintained. Not that he would be involved but I doubt the AFL et al will get anywhere if they try to use their sporting network buddies to have a chat to him.

Eddy, of all people, appears to have waded in though ... WADA will be shaking in their boots now! ``Really? You think we are narky, Mr. McGuire? Oh, well, that makes a vast difference, of course ... ''

WADA's request for overseas hearing 'narky', says Collingwood president Eddie McGuire

[ManDee 7,319]

Bec Wilson stands by story.

Rebecca Wilson from the Daily Telegraph emphatically stands by the story she wrote on the weekend regarding WADA’s decision to take the case against the Essendon 34 to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

She is adamant that all her assertions regarding the case are factual and that this hearing will be significantly different to the one that went before the AFL anti-doping tribunal.

“I received a huge reaction, and the usual polarising reaction where I think around 75% of people had agreed with what I had said,” said Wilson on SEN radio.

“Some didn’t and then there’s that small element that are so abusive and full of vile (comments).”

Former Essendon player Tim Watson and ex-ASADA chairman Richard Ings were very critical of Wilson’s piece that suggested the Bombers ought to be worried that the case was going to CAS.

“As much as we all respect Tim Watson, let’s face it he has a deeply vested interest in not seeing this case go to the Court of Arbitration for Sport,” she said.

“Everyone at Essendon wants this thing shut down.”

Wilson strongly denies anything in her story is factually incorrect and insists Ings has an agenda to undermine the anti-doping agencies.

“Of course CAS has to prove it... My point is this, the individual’s responsibility lies with the athlete about what he or she puts into their body,” she explained.

“If you have a look at the charter of the CAS you will see that every athlete will get a fair hearing but they will also have an onus of responsibility to prove that they are not guilty.

“Every time I write the words Essendon, Dank, ASADA or WADA four senior defamation lawyers look at my copy.

“And each of them cleared that copy without one change on the weekend.”

Ings responded to Wilson's interview saying his role in this is to only ensure that the media properly report the ongoing saga.

"It's nothing personal, my motivation throughout this entire 830-odd days is to ensure that the media cover these complicated issues correctly," he said on SEN radio.

"The first of several errors that Bec made is that there are no signed affidavits from these witnesses... WADA may try to introduce transcripts of interviews with CAS and what you might find is that WADA goes back to the Supreme Court to compel these individuals to attend."

Wilson was disappointed with some of the backlash she received after publishing the article, pointing out that another not guilty verdict would not upset her.

“All I want to do is seek the truth and if that turns out to be each of the 34 players being completely exonerated then so be it, and we all move on,” said Wilson.

“The scornful attitude towards ASADA, WADA, the AFL and people like me is wrong.”

http://www.sen.com.au/news/05-15/bec-wilson-stands-by-story-critics-have-vested-interest

[ManDee 7,319]

Eddy, of all people, appears to have waded in though ... WADA will be shaking in their boots now! ``Really? You think we are narky, Mr. McGuire? Oh, well, that makes a vast difference, of course ... ''

WADA's request for overseas hearing 'narky', says Collingwood president Eddie McGuire

Oh and by the way Eddie, those two naughty Collingwood boys do they have passports, we may need to see them in Switzerland. And you too, two players from one team if you know what I mean.

[Dees2014 2,377]

that would be true. However unless its changed I thought EFC were bankrolling the lads. yes/no Still be up to their representative though as you say.

Lets be honest here.....its not going to mater one zac who they choose........is it....lol

Yes the interesting area in this will be once the players are found guilty, and suspended. Then watch the writs fly, specifically suing the AFL and Essendon. Do Essendon continue paying their legal fees, if so for how long. What if in the meantime Worksafe get involved as they have said they will, and they penalise and fine, for instance Hird, Reid and Thompson as I think they will, as well as key Board members.

Does Essendon continue to pay legal fees as well as fines which will be very substantial. I know many on here have poured cold water on my suggestion that Essendon could go under financially as a result of this mess, but legal action and penalties could go on for years and bankruptcy might be their only way to avoid these long term penalties. I very much doubt that even Little would commit to a bottomless pit. This is not to say Essendon disappear as I am sure a liquidator would be able to sell the brand for a substantial sum. Thankfully though, it would be the end of Hird, Little, Reid, Watson, all the current board, and all those other collaborators in this sorry saga.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Dees2014

[bazza226 74]

Eddie is just concerned due to the fact that 2 of his boys have positive tests hanging over them. What happened to the B sample results?

If 2 or more members of a team test positive then the team can also be rubbed out. Time to worry Eddie!

[beelzebub 23,390]

Yes the interesting area in this will be once the players are found guilty, and suspended. Then watch the writs fly, specifically suing the AFL and Essendon. Do Essendon continue paying their legal fees, if so for how long. What if in the meantime Worksafe get involved as they have said they will, and they penalise and fine, for instance Hird, Reid and Thompson as I think they will, as well as key Board members.

Does Essendon continue to pay legal fees as well as fines which will be very substantial. I know many on here have poured cold water on my suggestion that Essendon could go under financially as a result of this mess, but legal action and penalties could go on for years and bankruptcy might be their only way to avoid these long term penalties. I very much doubt that even Little would commit to a bottomless pit. This is not to say Essendon disappear as I am sure a liquidator would be able to sell the brand for a substantial sum. Thankfully though, it would be the end of Hird, Little, Reid, Watson, all the current board, and all those other collaborators in this sorry saga.

Actually 2014 I probably am like yourself expecting Essendon to come unstuck not in the end through anything other than running out of money Dare I say for the good of its members and the league in general the EFC as it exists must die. Like a Phoenix a new Windy Hill Bombers may arise and be most welcome....just leave the fwits at the door !!

[beelzebub 23,390]

Eddie is just concerned due to the fact that 2 of his boys have positive tests hanging over them. What happened to the B sample results?

If 2 or more members of a team test positive then the team can also be rubbed out. Time to worry Eddie!

does raise an interesting aspect to it doesnt it...two strikes...oops !!

[beelzebub 23,390]

The CAS rules state that each party to the dispute is required to nominate an Arbitrator from the global list of about 400 of CAS Arbitrators, of which about 40 are Australian. They third appointment, the Chairman of the tribunal, will be appointed if the two parties can agree on a candidate, but if this cannot be achieved then CAS appoints someone. In effect, both Essendon and WADA has a veto on the chairman unless CAS intervenes.

I understand is Essendon were to refuse to cooperate and not app out an Arbitrator, then CAS would and they (Essendon) would be heavily fined. It would not be a good look, nor a very sensible thing to do if they were seeking a fair trial.

essendons veto is compromised though.. in the end CAS will appoint whom it wants as the chair,