Its fun reading how some players are marked and how the criticism gets justified but others float by.

Toumpas first game back in for a grand total of 20th with probably third as the sub has 7 kicks 7 handballs at 71%.

Newton has 7 kicks and 7 handballs at 71% including two shocking errors early in the game.

Spencer after half time was clearly the better ruckman and had the second most tackles and second most clearances in his first game back. Pike who some claim is a second rate ruckman was second for contested grabs in the league last year, achieved the tap out record in one game last week and has only been beaten by Sandilands all year. Jamar showed at VFL he is done and Gawn did some good things but does not work half as hard as Spencer.

Watts comes on and was clean and serviceable. Howe floats by in another lazy, disinterested soft game.

My main disappointment was we seemed so focussed on halving the stoppages with them last night that no held position and no had interest to spread when we had the ball.

Tyson needs to face criticism for his inability to spread or if he is that injured try and get right whatever is wrong. JKH's workrate is appalling and he needs to have a long stint at Casey. Hopefully Viney back so Vince can be let off the leash as we are now missing his attacking creativity whilst he is more focussed on the tag.

Supporters are spooked by a random calling in on talkback radio ?

Interesting.

A bit like the guy who rang Neil Balme and told him that Elliot was off to....

Balme said he was a fool, what he didn't know is the Pies already had the sig but hadn't announced it.

There's always someone out there with the latest news they are convinced is correct.

On Petracca, if Hawthorn want to give us Hill and Anderson then I would take that trade now.

A disgrace if true and should be completely against the rules

They have won the last 2 flags and are now trying to steal a kid we took at pick 2 just 7 months ago, [censored] me dead I am almost over the AFL

Could not agree more. Loathe hawthorn

Not sure 'first game back' is relevant - he's not coming back from injury, he's been fit all year and in the seconds for a reason.

I'll agree that he deserves more than one game, no point in just giving him the one, but there was absolutely nothing in his game today to suggest he has improved at all. Same mistakes as every game he's played for the last however many years he's been on our list.

But it is a big step up from playing ok in the magoos to playing ok let alone playing well in the 1's especially of you have not played many 1's games. Give him a couple of weeks and hopefully we see some development.

If you saw Casey yesterday you would not pick Jamar. Did nothing at Casey to reclaim a spot.Gawn needs to able to 1st ruck. Playing forward is useless if he cant command the 1st ruck spot. Cant see us playing Spencer and Gawn together at this point unless they offload one of Pedersen or Dawes.

The ruck role is an issue but it's not THE issue. It's the mid field's inability to win enough ball and get that first possession or 2 out quickly on the spread then deliver decent ball inside 50. It's the lack of speed, run & carry/overlap play off half back and through the middle. Our inability to hit lead up targets (or offer them over and over) as we work our way up the field. Our poor short passing skills.

You can teach any footballer with half a brain how to tackle, corral, defend a zone, leave your opponent and spoil in general play. It's the class inside, the outside run/overlap, footskills and finish coming i50 that needs fixing.

I think we are well on the way to a solid D in terms of defending balls coming in. On the rebound is a different matter. I think we are in the early stages of setting up a reasonable forward line that will start finishing off the good work. But there is a stack of work to do through the mid field and rebounding off half back, delivery coming i50.

You won't fix so many significant aspects of our game with many on the current list as they just seem inept in many of these crucial aspects of our game when up against the top 6 to 8. It will take at least 2 more drafts and drilling of skills/game style to get ourselves competitive with teams around the middle of the ladder (8 to 12) and start winning more than the odd game here and there against the bottom 4 to 6 clubs who are in a similar position to us.

The AFL's dogmatic expansion of the competition with the draft moratorium and free agency (allowing players to move to top 4 to 6 clubs instead of those outside only) hasn't helped our cause or others trying to bounce off the bottom.

Its fun reading how some players are marked and how the criticism gets justified but others float by.

Toumpas first game back in for a grand total of 20th with probably third as the sub has 7 kicks 7 handballs at 71%.

Newton has 7 kicks and 7 handballs at 71% including two shocking errors early in the game.

Spencer after half time was clearly the better ruckman and had the second most tackles and second most clearances in his first game back. Pike who some claim is a second rate ruckman was second for contested grabs in the league last year, achieved the tap out record in one game last week and has only been beaten by Sandilands all year. Jamar showed at VFL he is done and Gawn did some good things but does not work half as hard as Spencer.

Watts comes on and was clean and serviceable. Howe floats by in another lazy, disinterested soft game.

My main disappointment was we seemed so focussed on halving the stoppages with them last night that no held position and no had interest to spread when we had the ball.

Tyson needs to face criticism for his inability to spread or if he is that injured try and get right whatever is wrong. JKH's workrate is appalling and he needs to have a long stint at Casey. Hopefully Viney back so Vince can be let off the leash as we are now missing his attacking creativity whilst he is more focussed on the tag.

Spot on

I thought Toumpas was actually ok, deserves a couple of weeks at it.

Is it just me or does Salem remind anybody else of Yze. Very similar types and seem to be developing in the same way. Yze went to half back early on in his career and then went midfield. He is going to be a really good player.

If you watch Ross presser what he says is exactly right, last year or the year before, we would of got smashed but at least 15-20 goals, improvement is not just about winning, although that would be nice, we have the building blocks of a good quality team here, they need to keep working hard and stay together.

Someone please sum up this game for me in 3 sentences

I luckily slept through most of it.

The opposition, who played in last years GF and were coming off 2 stinging losses, were far too good for a team that last year finished near the bootm of the ladder.

The opposition were too fierce, too strong and too fast.

We had our lowest half time score against the Swans since 1914 but on a positive note kept fighting in the second half and prevented a massive loss, which as a rather positive Roos said in his presser was a real positive (he noted that in the past such a scenario would have resulted in a 100 point belting).

If you watch Ross presser what he says is exactly right, last year or the year before, we would of got smashed but at least 15-20 goals,

Well we lost to the Swans by 31 points last season, 38 last night.. so this year was a much worse result when you factor in the woeful first half.

Well we lost to the Swans by 31 points last season, 38 last night.. so this year was a much worse result when you factor in the woeful first half.

Last year we tried our guts out but didn't have the class or polish to match Sydney and they cruised

this year we played well below our best with some important players missing from our side ( Jetta, Viney, Kent )

i'd say that's a sign of a decent step forward

Someone please sum up this game for me in 3 sentences

I luckily slept through most of it.

1. 44 players were kicking to the Swans for most of the night.

2. McVeigh was allowed to run around without an opponent and he set up about 7-8 goals.

3. We miss easy shots at crucial times which sap our confidence.

The opposition, who played in last years GF and were coming off 2 stinging losses, were far too good for a team that last year finished near the bootm of the ladder.

The opposition were too fierce, too strong and too fast.

We had our lowest half time score against the Swans since 1914 but on a positive note kept fighting in the second half and prevented a massive loss, which as a rather positive Roos said in his presser was a real positive (he noted that in the past such a scenario would have resulted in a 100 point belting).

Like Freo they were also at full strength, unlike us. That also helps.

We kicked 1 goal in the first half by our first gamer.

That says it all. Putrid performance.

What occured in the 2nd half was junk time

The jumper they wear carries no pride to them.

We kicked 1 goal in the first half by our first gamer.

That says it all. Putrid performance.

What occured in the 2nd half was junk time

The jumper they wear carries no pride to them.

i recon it's time for you to choose another team SWYL, nothin positive has come from you for a while.

Is it just me or does Salem remind anybody else of Yze. Very similar types and seem to be developing in the same way. Yze went to half back early on in his career and then went midfield. He is going to be a really good player.

He's harder at it than Yze.

He's harder at it than Yze.

and a team player as opposed..........

This is the problem with starting the season of relatively well, it just gets our hopes up.

i recon it's time for you to choose another team SWYL, nothin positive has come from you for a while.

I think it's time you looked at reality Song

This club is still playing timid football 10 years down the track...

I think it's time you looked at reality Song

This club is still playing timid football 10 years down the track...

I'm very much in touch with it, i know we are shite still, but we are getting better.

I'm very much in touch with it, i know we are shite still, but we are getting better.

yeah we just get better much slower than every other club....

We kicked 1 goal in the first half by our first gamer.

That says it all. Putrid performance.

What occured in the 2nd half was junk time

The jumper they wear carries no pride to them.

And one goal in the second half against Fremantle. We carried over the form from the second half of last week. Lets hope we carry over our last quarter form next week for the whole game. Sounds like a big ask at the moment.

The Hawks will need to watch out as we'll be on a double rebound and Dawes/Spence will be better for the run!

Give a go Rusty, we have been on double rebounds for 5 years.

It never bothered anyone before.

We played as we train.

No pressure on the ball carrier, whether that be defence or attack.

Sydney rag dolled us all night.

They train to do that, we don't.

JKH...back to the magoos...bring in Matt Jones.

Yep that'll fix things......