55 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Excuses?

Mate, everyone has a little more penetration on the run. But a set shot is not an on the run kick and Hogan has always lacked penetration.

He can kick 50 if he runs around on a slight arc but you minimise your chances of making sweet contact if you do that which is why sometimes he doesn't get the distance.

But in general, he is not a booming kick.

How can you say he doesn't feel comfortable with that routine if it's the one he's had since coming to the club? Do you mean to say that you don't feel comfortable with it? 

That would make more sense.

where did i say anything about the distance of his kicks

just quit apologising for his kicking action and accept it's flawed and needs changing. it's not that hard to understand

we are talking about a professional sportsman who will probably demand a $1m+ a year fcs

As strange as the run-up is to watch for us, it was clearly working last year.

I reckon this year it might be above the shoulders.

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

where did i say anything about the distance of his kicks

just quit apologising for his kicking action and accept it's flawed and needs changing. it's not that hard to understand

we are talking about a professional sportsman who will probably demand a $1m+ a year fcs

Well wtf are you arguing/whinging about ?

The only thing it's potentially inhibiting is his distance.

Have you checked the bloke's accuracy?

What is it about his 'flawed' action do you see that needs changing? Do you understand that the last few steps he takes before hitting the ball are fine and his ball-drop is generally fine? And that that's the most important part of his 'technique' and kicking a football in general.

What you're basically saying is that the before bits like his stutter steps etc are contributing to his inaccuracy? Is that right? 

How can you argue such a thing when to date, he has been pretty damn accurate with the exception of a few 'off' days. 

What are you arguing mate?

Edited May 16, 20169 yr by stevethemanjordan

26 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Well wtf are you arguing/whinging about ?

The only thing it's potentially inhibiting is his distance.

Have you checked the bloke's accuracy?

What is it about his 'flawed' action do you see that needs changing? Do you understand that the last few steps he takes before hitting the ball are fine and his ball-drop is generally fine? And that that's the most important part of his 'technique' and kicking a football in general.

What you're basically saying is that the before bits like his stutter steps etc are contributing to his inaccuracy? Is that right? 

How can you argue such a thing when to date, he has been pretty damn accurate with the exception of a few 'off' days. 

What are you arguing mate?

he was great last year but this year he is at 52%.  even Gawny is higher than that!  Dead-eye Wattsy is at 73% which is remarkable

When's blokes half his size like Ben Kennedy can kick goals from further out more consistently... You got a problem. 

The coaches need to address it. His set [censored] accuracy this year is less than 50% when you take into account the shots that didn't even score. That's not good enough and well below average.

34 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Well wtf are you arguing/whinging about ?

The only thing it's potentially inhibiting is his distance.

Have you checked the bloke's accuracy?

What is it about his 'flawed' action do you see that needs changing? Do you understand that the last few steps he takes before hitting the ball are fine and his ball-drop is generally fine? And that that's the most important part of his 'technique' and kicking a football in general.

What you're basically saying is that the before bits like his stutter steps etc are contributing to his inaccuracy? Is that right? 

How can you argue such a thing when to date, he has been pretty damn accurate with the exception of a few 'off' days. 

What are you arguing mate?

waste of time with you mate. you just keep on dreaming then

9 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

waste of time with you mate. you just keep on dreaming then

I'm yet to hear what it is about his technique that contributes to his inaccuracy from you. Solid. 

You've made absolutely no point.

It looks to me that:

• He doesnt have great balance by the time he kicks.
• He is reasonably accurate anyway which is not a great defense.
• He is giving the impression he doesnt want to be coached.

23 minutes ago, DubDee said:

he was great last year but this year he is at 52%.  even Gawny is higher than that!  Dead-eye Wattsy is at 73% which is remarkable

Yeh but his 'technique' hasn't changed from last year to this.

So where's the argument going?

I didn't hear anything when he kicked 7.1 against St Kilda.

Daisy refuses to detail what part of his technique it is that is 'flawed'. And everyone else just seems to say that it looks awkward. Which it does. But again, of what significance is that if last year he had exactly the same technique but was kicking more accurately?

1 minute ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Yeh but his 'technique' hasn't changed from last year to this.

So where's the argument going?

I didn't hear anything when he kicked 7.1 against St Kilda.

Daisy refuses to detail what part of his technique it is that is 'flawed'. And everyone else just seems to say that it looks awkward. Which it does. But again, of what significance is that if last year he had exactly the same technique but was kicking more accurately?

Kicking from 40+ was an issue last year as well. He has no fluency to generate any sort of power and runs out on an unnatural arc to try and generate power. A guy his size should be kicking 50m with ease.

But as for inside that distance, I get what you are saying. Nothing much seems to have changed. I am by no means an expert, but you would think with such an awkward and complicated run up, it might only take one little thing to go wrong for the whole thing to fall apart, whereas a simple and fluent approach is more likely to produce consistent results. Perhaps there is something minor different about his approach this year, but what that is, I wouldn't know.

Jess Hogan 2016

8 games 18 goals 14 points - 56%

7 games 11 goals 13 points - 46%  (i.e. omitting the St.Kilda game)

This excludes the out of bounds and those that didn't make the distance from within 50m

But nothing to worry about..............

1 minute ago, Forest Demon said:

Kicking from 40+ was an issue last year as well. He has no fluency to generate any sort of power and runs out on an unnatural arc to try and generate power. A guy his size should be kicking 50m with ease.

But as for inside that distance, I get what you are saying. Nothing much seems to have changed. I am by no means an expert, but you would think with such an awkward and complicated run up, it might only take one little thing to go wrong for the whole thing to fall apart, whereas a simple and fluent approach is more likely to produce consistent results. Perhaps there is something minor different about his approach this year, but what that is, I wouldn't know.

His only goal yesterday was in junk time. His four gettable misses earlier were all when we needed a goal to keep us in the game. His last miss ended up as a coast to coast turnaround that sealed our fate. He has to kick the pressure goals and that requires a reliable kicking action for long term sustainability as a key forward.

20 hours ago, bluey said:

Ah, no clown,  an illusion is an idea or belief that is not true. 

I enjoyed this little exchange. I know "delusions of grandeur" is the usual expression, but technically, is there anything wrong with "illusions"?  Maybe it's a new expression just waiting to enter the language? English is a river, not a puddle or a pond. 

If it is true as someone posted that he can kick more than 40m if on the run, seem to me there is a simple solution to that particular problem.  But I find it odd that so many players who have no trouble slotting long range goals on the run feel obliged to take an entirely different 'formal' approach when they have taken a mark or free even if the man on the mark is not an issue.

Why doesnt he take his full 30 seconds to go waayyyyyy back and get a full tilt running start?

Imagine the comments on THAT run up!

 

22 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

People continuously overlook the fact that he is left-hand dominant, (Tasks/activities with his left hand. Eg; Playing tennis, writing, drinking tea, shaking hands etc).

However, weirdly enough he is right-foot dominant. 

That is a [censored] up of hemispheres and I'm sure this makes it extremely difficult for the brain to make his set-shot routine look 'smooth'.

If people knew that, they wouldn't bang on about it. And I wish commentators would get the mail on this too because it's becoming infuriating. 

His run up is what it is and if he feels most comfortable kicking this way, then he should be left to it. Especially given the uniqueness of having two opposing limbs that are dominant.

We all know he lacks penetration. But that's always been the case and I don't think he'll ever change that significantly. 

 

 

I don't buy that bit so much Steve I am right hand dominated but always been left footed and know plenty of others who are similar

17 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I don't buy that bit so much Steve I am right hand dominated but always been left footed and know plenty of others who are similar

Arent we all just a happy mixed up lot. I am predominantly right side dominant. However I do eat left handed ( because its the RIGHT way logically !! lol )   I write right handed . I can use most tools either hand. I started my Bball life as a right handed shooter and would do layups still mainly as a right hander but distant shots left handed, foul shooting right handed unless I had the yips , then Id change ...just to change..lol.  I kick righ footed but gradually learnt to kick ( the shorter game ) left foot also.

Im not sure what any  of this means other than Im completely screwed up...hehehe .   What I have found is you can learn things , you can adapt, but there also may be inbuilt limitations per person.

Jesse's run in is as cack handed as any Ive seen and it CANT help him. It reintroduces everytime too many variable before the dropping of the ball and the strike. When he cant think about it it all just flows.  He need REAL mental coaching here.

He was  hired to kick goals. Good goal kickers have a constant rhythmic action. He needs to learn one

On 15/05/2016 at 6:43 PM, Clint Bizkit said:

He kicked seven goals under the roof of Etihad.

His kicking lacks penetration and is therefore far more likely to be impacted by even the slightest breeze.

Most of his misses came from around the 50 too. If he marks it ~45 out I assume he'll miss as the effort to get the ball the extra 5 metres means it swings offline.

22 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

I know he's only a young kid, but if he kicks those goals early yesterday, who knows. I feel he would have last year. 

Given the limited opportunities we had, we simply needed to dob the easy ones and he had a couple of them yesterday and missed. It's such a psychological blow. You feel like you're working so hard to create scoring chances and when you finally do, your gun CHF misses very gettable shots multiple times

You could tell pretty early on yesterday that we weren't on

He missed every shot I saw him take in the warmup too on Sunday. 

22 hours ago, Lord John said:

Curiously he was slotting goals with ease off a few steps during the pre game warm up.

Really? Maybe I only saw the last few shots he took but I saw him miss at least 3 relatively easy shots (within 40) during the warm up.

I think it's all between the ears for Jesse, but i would like to see a shorter run up and [censored] that skip off so he has less margin for error, like a fast bowlers run up, if it needs to be repeated over and over you want it as simple as possible with all momentum heading towards the target.

its a very odd, and counterproductive action. Just as he gets some semblance or rhythm and balance he does his little river-dance thing..  Why bother

His miss from straight in front in the 3rd, which then was rebounded for a Dogs goal, cost us any momentum we had and signaled we were cooked. 

Hogan is still so young and raw, mentally more than physically.

He will mature, but he has a way to go before he actually has what all champions have - the ability to single-handedly impose themselves on and win games of footy for their team.

Edited May 17, 20169 yr by PaulRB

On 16/05/2016 at 3:10 PM, america de cali said:

His only goal yesterday was in junk time. His four gettable misses earlier were all when we needed a goal to keep us in the game. His last miss ended up as a coast to coast turnaround that sealed our fate. He has to kick the pressure goals and that requires a reliable kicking action for long term sustainability as a key forward.

I agree. A good analogy is pro golfers. The best players hit pressure shots under the gun because of swings that are metronomic.

Same goes for nba basketballers. The best shot i have ever seen is curry. His shooting action is pure and the same from wherever he shoots from on the court.

The main problem  with hogan is that his run up and action is a little different  every time

6 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Arent we all just a happy mixed up lot. I am predominantly right side dominant. However I do eat left handed ( because its the RIGHT way logically !! lol )   I write right handed . I can use most tools either hand. I started my Bball life as a right handed shooter and would do layups still mainly as a right hander but distant shots left handed, foul shooting right handed unless I had the yips , then Id change ...just to change..lol.  I kick righ footed but gradually learnt to kick ( the shorter game ) left foot also.

Im not sure what any  of this means other than Im completely screwed up...hehehe .   What I have found is you can learn things , you can adapt, but there also may be inbuilt limitations per person.

Jesse's run in is as cack handed as any Ive seen and it CANT help him. It reintroduces everytime too many variable before the dropping of the ball and the strike. When he cant think about it it all just flows.  He need REAL mental coaching here.

He was  hired to kick goals. Good goal kickers have a constant rhythmic action. He needs to learn one

Kick Left Footed

Handball - both hands neither is more dominant

Tennis/Golf - right handed because I was given a set of right handed clubs

Cricket/Baseball - left handed

Eat - left handed & mouth of course

Handwriting - right handed but my mother tells me she changed me when I was a child because it was the done thing, both my siblings are left handed and are very creative with art and using tools where as I am shocking