I don't have to twist, of course if twisting is disagreeing with you, strange on a public discussion forum, I am not allowed to disagree

You twist it by completely disregarding it as an important aspect of the game. For a tall player it is important to be strong in the contest and have the ability to not only mark on the lead but to also do it in a contested situation. His contested marking is poor. There is no denying that.

Over his career he has only averaged 3.5 marks a game. Cam Pedersen, as an example, has averaged a tick under 5. Jack Watts has averaged over 5. His marking ability, both in finding space on the lead and in a contested situation, is not up to scratch.

You twist it by completely disregarding it as an important aspect of the game. For a tall player it is important to be strong in the contest and have the ability to not only mark on the lead but to also do it in a contested situation. His contested marking is poor. There is no denying that.

Over his career he has only averaged 3.5 marks a game. Cam Pedersen, as an example, has averaged a tick under 5. Jack Watts has averaged over 5. His marking ability, both in finding space on the lead and in a contested situation, is not up to scratch.

Thought stats were worthless on this forum?

Over his career of 19 games at AFL level without a consistent run, 3 games here, a couple of games there, so what do you expect

This is Jack's final year of his contract, personally I think he has the attributes to be a good AFL player, they are trying to do something different, will he make it, I hope so, but it is not my decision

We all know what will happen if his season is not up to standard

Thought stats were worthless on this forum?

Over his career of 19 games at AFL level without a consistent run, 3 games here, a couple of games there, so what do you expect

This is Jack's final year of his contract, personally I think he has the attributes to be a good AFL player, they are trying to do something different, will he make it, I hope so, but it is not my decision

We all know what will happen if his season is not up to standard

More excuses. You are the king of them.

And I'm happy for you to believe he can make it. Nothing wrong with that. I just believe he won't. We will certainly see come the end of the year.

Guys, can you stop derailing the thread...

I think the first line of that post tells readers of this forum more about you than me, congratulations you have now joined the every increasing list of posters I don't read

Coaches don't speak the truth about players?.....McCartney told me Friday was ordinary and players need to learn to play as a team, Roos in his presser although not naming them inferred either Lumumba or Dunn should have taken control of the Viney mark and kick as leaders

McKenzie's skills at training have improved, does it translate to games, don't know yet, although he has been ok in the NAB Challenge when he was on the field, and I chatted to him last year about where he had to improve and he told me exactly what Roos had told him.

Other players have done the same, but hey you can't possibly give me or the players any credit can you, again says more about you than me

Wrong again chap. I give the players who deserve it plenty of credit. I'll give you credit now if it you are upset with not getting enough: you have a well manicured beard.

As for the rest of your post, well, you are merely confirming that negative individual player feedback is not going to be told to fans at training. There is no point in doing so that leads to a positive outcome.

More excuses. You are the king of them.

And I'm happy for you to believe he can make it. Nothing wrong with that. I just believe he won't. We will certainly see come the end of the year.

They are not excuses, they are facts, strange phenomenon on Demonland I know

Guys, can you stop derailing the thread...

Why are we derailing the thread, this has been a discussion between myself and Wiseblood, that's covered AFL skill sets, other players, coaches opinions all based on the fact that Fitzy trained with the defence on Monday, if he does it again on Friday, I will report it again, I have actually enjoyed the debate because Wiseblood has actually made the effort to justity his opinion, a lesson some could learn on here

I find it more interesting how some players get a lot better after poor starts and others make a career out of being very ordinary forever

OD, I mis-read this and thought you were writing about Demonland posters. Not that I'm going to accuse any poster of "being very ordinary forever"...although this would be as good as thread as any to do so.

So just over one contested mark a game, wow flying into packs and tussling one on one every 30 seconds in a game then

Anyway we are now talking about a non MFC player, breaking my rule

Most players rarely take more than 60 contested marks per year (just below 3 per game). In fact, since 2011, Travis Cloke is the only player to have taken more than 60 (2011-95 and 2012-73).

I think you'll find that Franklin (at around 2 a game or just below) would be in the upper percentile of contested marking over the past 4-5 years.

And people can come up with statistics to prove anything Saty, forfty percent of all people know that!

Edited March 25, 201510 yr by The Stigga

OD, I mis-read this and thought you were writing about Demonland posters. Not that I'm going to accuse any poster of "being very ordinary forever"...although this would be as good as thread as any to do so.

I guess you could apply it to a number of areas LDC

Prime Ministers comes immediately to mind.

Most players rarely take more than 60 contested marks per year (just below 3 per game). In fact, Travis Cloke is the only player to have taken more than 60 (2011-95 and 2012-73).

I think you'll find that Franklin (at around 2 or game or just below) would be in the upper percentile of contested marking over the past 4-5 years.

And people can come up with statistics to prove anything Saty, forfty percent of all people know that!

And the other 75% don't.

They are not excuses, they are facts, strange phenomenon on Demonland I know

Why are we derailing the thread, this has been a discussion between myself and Wiseblood, that's covered AFL skill sets, other players, coaches opinions all based on the fact that Fitzy trained with the defence on Monday, if he does it again on Friday, I will report it again, I have actually enjoyed the debate because Wiseblood has actually made the effort to justity his opinion, a lesson some could learn on here

The thread was derailed after I shared my thoughts on an MFC player and a fellow poster pointed out that training threads should only be about players training, and they should stick on topic, and not be derailed, and then there were a few follow up posts pondering what actually constitutes a derailment, when a thread is "dead"- what that actually means, who has the power to kill a thread (Nasher apparently) and then you interpreted rpfc derailment quip as a dig at you and of course returned fire, and now we are here.

I'm looking for a new car, can anyone sell me a good one cheap? Thanks people.

The thread was derailed after I shared my thoughts on an MFC player and a fellow poster pointed out that training threads should only be about players training, and they should stick on topic, and not be derailed, and then there were a few follow up posts pondering what actually constitutes a derailment, when a thread is "dead"- what that actually means, who has the power to kill a thread (Nasher apparently) and then you interpreted rpfc derailment quip as a dig at you and of course returned fire, and now we are here.

I'm looking for a new car, can anyone sell me a good one cheap? Thanks people.

This is a training thread!

I have 3 cars for sale, an old Falcon ute, a 2013 Corolla and an old Pajero sorry 4 cars also a 1976 Chrysler by Chrysler convertible. (seriously)

I hear my train a comin

Is anyone listening to Roos with the Ox on The Run Home on SEN at the moment?

Many, including me, will naturally gravitate to a training thread, but in reality, other than who's training, who's not and who's in rehab there's absolutely nothing to be gleaned.

So how's Scully tracking this pre-season? Ready to dominate?

So how's Scully tracking this pre-season? Ready to dominate?

Poorly I hear, plus I believe he is not happy about Leicester City and their fight against relegation from the EPL.

Poorly I hear, plus I believe he is not happy about Leicester City and their fight against relegation from the EPL.

Haha, gold.

Was there any training today(Wednesday 25)?

Don't put Kent in the same boat as Viney in terms of kicking. Viney is much worse.

Is it true that he can't kick more than, max, 40 meters? I just want to know what to expect when he's having set shots; cause all the ones I have seen have been putrid.

Do you need to kick more than 40 metres as long as you know that and can kick to a target within a 40 meter radius accurately. I reckon if you can do that you will be in good AFL company. Not everyone can put in a 50 meter precise spearing kick to a running outsiderwhile in a contest. Yes the best players can do that but we are not competing with best for some time yet.

FFS talk about a derailed thread, skill set and talk of an entire other load of tripe.

Skill Set is that what we are basing AFL players on now is it, so just draft somebody with all the skills in the world and they will be a gun. Lets get one thing straight skill set is one thing and nothing if you are not prepared to put the hard yards in. For christ sake the last 8 years should tell you all that.

Fitzy is tall and has good pace for someone of that size

I would say his field kicking is good when given time and space, unfortunately that doesn't happen a lot in the AFL and he hardly has the god given ability and poise of a Pendlebury to find space naturally.

200cm, with pace, nice kick and can take a grab - He was always going to be drafted

He has had some issues and probably on occasion shown a bit of potential for him to get contract extensions, but it's a ruthless business and it's now or never for Fitzy he is certainly on his last chance.

Talent and potential will only get you so far

I am with TDI and others.

Fitzy has something and I bet the coaches know it. 200 centimeter athletic players that run like a gazelle dont grow on trees. Hes already shown a great goal sense and blistering pace.

Hes showed flashes, and I bet he will put it all together within 12 months,

I am with TDI and others.

Fitzy has something and I bet the coaches know it. 200 centimeter athletic players that run like a gazelle dont grow on trees. Hes already shown a great goal sense and blistering pace.

Hes showed flashes, and I bet he will put it all together within 12 months,

With the coaches sending him to the backline tells me he is nowhere near defensive enough. Why would they do it otherwise? Our backline is a lot stronger than our forward line when it comes to depth.

His defensive game won't change over night it's going to take a lot of time, time that he doesn't really have. They should have tried this last year to give him every chance of succeeding.

I cannot believe that we still have no reliable replacement Ruck for Jamar who gives us some advantage at clearances but continues to do stuff all around the ground. If Jamar goes down or retires next year we are in trouble as we havent properly developed anyone of Fitz ,Spencer or Gawn. I dont know anything about King.

I have to say that I was very surprised to see us go with White instead of a ruckman for our last pick. Surely there must be a ruckman out there that can compete better than Spencer and Gawn. Gawn is a very sloppy ruckman an does very little up forward. I think Spencer is a better ruckman but a lost cause up forward and it looks like Fitzy is a lost cause as a ruckman, while King looks very raw.