Jack Watts vs Jimmy Toumpas

[Demon4Life 603]

From year one I've watched Watts get into perfect positions to hurt the opposition, slipping out back and into space, only to be ignored as though he was as invisible to our ball carriers as he was to their defenders. He has a great awareness of space and how to use it to his advantage to avoid contact.

He needs to work harder when the opposition has the ball (the same skill can be used to close down dangerous space and slow other team's transition).

He needs to learn how to grab someone around their hips and NOT LET GO.

I have not given up on him yet.

[Sir Why You Little 37,312]

From year one I've watched Watts get into perfect positions to hurt the opposition, slipping out back and into space, only to be ignored as though he was as invisible to our ball carriers as he was to their defenders. He has a great awareness of space and how to use it to his advantage to avoid contact.

He needs to work harder when the opposition has the ball (the same skill can be used to close down dangerous space and slow other team's transition).

He needs to learn how to grab someone around their hips and NOT LET GO.

I have not given up on him yet.

Fair comments...He does have to learn fast now though....Been in this system long enough.

[Biffen 12,949]

You have never had a passive aggressive dessert-based conversation?

you have to get up pretty early to pavlova the wool on my eyes.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Toumpas is slow, an ordinary disposed of the ball and frightened n to hit a pack

Cale Morton Mark 2

Watts is quick when he's not running at a pack or a disputed balla beautiful disposer of the ball and also frightened to hit a pack

The only reason both have a chance to rise above their current state is Paul Roos.

Harsh, but if he doesn't improve in the next year or so it has the potential to be true.

[Rob Mac...... 640]

From year one I've watched Watts get into perfect positions to hurt the opposition, slipping out back and into space, only to be ignored as though he was as invisible to our ball carriers as he was to their defenders. He has a great awareness of space and how to use it to his advantage to avoid contact.

He needs to work harder when the opposition has the ball (the same skill can be used to close down dangerous space and slow other team's transition).

He needs to learn how to grab someone around their hips and NOT LET GO.

I have not given up on him yet.

100% agree with all of this D4L.

The part in bold of course is anyones fault except Watts. It's great he can find space like that. Ball carriers ignoring, therefor missing these opportunities he presents, should be roundly criticized. Watts is easily our most dangerous player when he has undisputed possession. Often he makes it easy to pass to him, players ignore the opportunity, yet I can't think of a single example of a player being criticized for that.?

[Henrietta Lumbago 331]

100% agree with all of this D4L.

The part in bold of course is anyones fault except Watts. It's great he can find space like that. Ball carriers ignoring, therefor missing these opportunities he presents, should be roundly criticized. Watts is easily our most dangerous player when he has undisputed possession. Often he makes it easy to pass to him, players ignore the opportunity, yet I can't think of a single example of a player being criticized for that.?

Its well and good to get into the right positions, but the ball carrier has seconds to sum up his options often at full tilt or with the opposition hot on their heels. Watts needs to demand the ball If he's not being noticed then he needs to change something. Edited February 19, 2015 by Henrietta Lumbago

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

Its well and good to get into the right positions, but the ball carrier has seconds to sum up his options often at full tilt or with the opposition hot on their heels. Watts needs to demand the ball If he's not being noticed then he needs to change something.

Or the ball carriers decision making needs to improve/skill level to be able to find Watts. I know full well he demands it as I noticed the same thing, he gets to the good spot screams snd waves his arms, when he is found we score.

His tackling is sometimes poor, but his use of the corralling is often a preferred method as he has the skill level to intercept the handpass. That said I would like to see him choose the tackle option more frequently and attempt the intercept when having opposition penned into the boundary

[jnrmac 20,276]

Demonlands old wipping boy Vs Demonlands new wipping boy.

I want to see how they go when our team actually starts winning games.

Chicken / Egg

[Henrietta Lumbago 331]

Demonlands old wipping boy Vs Demonlands new wipping boy.

I want to see how they go when our team actually starts winning games.

If these two highly skilled players start to play to their potential we might start winning a game or two.

[Breggsy 123]

I think these two will play better once we move the ball quicker

[ignition. 1,478]

Watts anyday of the week.

When I look at these "young talents" I look for glimpses of what they can bring. It might be over one whole game, a quarter, or the dying seconds in a nail biter.

Watts is no midfielder, but he has shown what he can do up forward. He can get himself into good positions and kick multiple goals. I hope he gets more time in the forward line as I think he'll thrive around the likes of Hogan, Dawes, and Garlett.

Toumpas on the other hand for me hasn't showed a thing. He once had a good quarter racking up 9 or 10 possessions but they weren't damaging. I like his character but it won't stop the hoards in years to come and if things continue unfortunately he will become the whipping boy (I hate seeing this happen). Then there's the continuous Wines rubbish, it certainly wouldn't help him, but he really needs to show some improvement or glimpses this year. If not the best option may be to build him a little and package him in a trade (e.g. First ND pick & Toumpas to Adelaide for Sloane at seasons end, that's if it's enough) as we already have a large abundance of "young talent" with "potential" where there is two who can play the same role; Salem & Stretch.

Edited February 21, 2015 by ignition.

[whatwhat say what 23,466]

Based on what he's shown so far Toumpas wouldn't be worth much more than a mid-range second round pick on the open market unfortunately.

He really needs to impress in 2015.

[Henrietta Lumbago 331]

Watts anyday of the week.

When I look at these "young talents" I look for glimpses of what they can bring. It might be over one whole game, a quarter, or the dying seconds in a nail biter.

Watts is no midfielder, but he has shown what he can do up forward. He can get himself into good positions and kick multiple goals. I hope he gets more time in the forward line as I think he'll thrive around the likes of Hogan, Dawes, and Garlett.

Toumpas on the other hand for me hasn't showed a thing. He once had a good quarter racking up 9 or 10 possessions but they weren't damaging. I like his character but it won't stop the hoards in years to come and if things continue unfortunately he will become the whipping boy (I hate seeing this happen). Then there's the continuous Wines rubbish, it certainly wouldn't help him, but he really needs to show some improvement or glimpses this year. If not the best option may be to build him a little and package him in a trade (e.g. First ND pick & Toumpas to Adelaide for Sloane at seasons end, that's if it's enough) as we already have a large abundance of "young talent" with "potential" where there is two who can play the same role; Salem & Stretch.

You really summed it up there, I much prefer Watts as a forward and I don't think he will ever be a midfielder, purely because he doesn't attack the ball. The best I have seen from Toumpas was also up forward, where he looked clean and used the ball well, but I can't see him playing in the midfield because of the same reason as Watts. For me at the moment, which I hope will change in 2015 because Toumpas has had a solid pre season , we shouldn't play both of them round 1.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Both are players that have not yet displayed that they can play at the required intensity level consistently yet.

On has been in the system five years, the other two. Not really a fair (or even necessary) comparison.

Edited February 21, 2015 by jabberwocky

[Henrietta Lumbago 331]

Both are players that have not yet displayed that they can play at the required intensity level consistently yet.

On has been in the system five years, the other two. Not really a fair (or even necessary) comparison.

It is a fair comparison because come game day they are forwards/outside midfielders playing very similar roles. I'm basing my comments on what we have seen so far, not what could happen in the future.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

It is a fair comparison because come game day they are forwards/outside midfielders playing very similar roles. I'm basing my comments on what we have seen so far, not what could happen in the future.

On what we have seen so far most of our list can't perform at the required standard consistently and most get beaten in their position more often that not.

Now what?

Edited February 22, 2015 by jabberwocky

[Henrietta Lumbago 331]

On what we have seen so far most of our list can't perform at the required standard consistently and most get beaten in their position more often that not.

Now what?

Thats a bit extreme.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Thats a bit extreme.

It's a fact though. Fortunately we have enough developing talent on our list to keep most of us interested.

Two years versus five.

Toumpas is only just reaching Afl puberty.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Based on what he's shown so far Toumpas wouldn't be worth much more than a mid-range second round pick on the open market unfortunately.

I think that's overly generous.

[Deez 298]

I think you just need to go down to training to get somewhat of an idea as to where they are at. Watts is still running laps and no contact stuff mfrom what I last heard. Toump is a running machine, he's smooth, I'd suggest he is one of our best kicks but the season will tell. And sure some of us will be right and some of us will be wrong. And of course people will refer to old posts. Not sure why such a big deal was made of that humble pie rubbish. My prediction is that toumpas will fly this year, literally, and if he does I'll tell you about it.

[pitmaster 3,589]

What unites these two is that they are top four draft picks of ours that are actually on their feet right now!

OK and Brayshaw, but no-one's managed to bag him yet.

Toumpas is going to surprise a lot of people this year. He is a beautiful user of the ball and will become a devastating weapon for delivery to the forwards.

Watts has always had a bad rap.

The point, already endorsed by a few contributors, is that he reads the game and finds space like very few can do, and our vision or decision making or skills have not been up to locating him.

Consider too, that sometimes by finding that space he is creating options for his team mates.

Like Toumpas, his skills are outstanding, and like Trapper who was also silky skilled, he is prone to occasional brain fades.

There is sometimes a laziness about Watts, in his physical attack on the ball, but sometimes I think this is down to him anticipating faster than others what is about to unfold.

I rate him highly because when he is firing he is incredibly effective. Toump will soon be a trump too.

[jackaub 1,402]

I think you just need to go down to training to get somewhat of an idea as to where they are at. Watts is still running laps and no contact stuff mfrom what I last heard. Toump is a running machine, he's smooth, I'd suggest he is one of our best kicks but the season will tell. And sure some of us will be right and some of us will be wrong. And of course people will refer to old posts. Not sure why such a big deal was made of that humble pie rubbish. My prediction is that toumpas will fly this year, literally, and if he does I'll tell you about it.

And if he doesnt? What then?

[P-man 13,366]

My prediction is that toumpas will fly this year, literally

Jet pack or superman style?

[whatwhat say what 23,466]

I'm presuming Watts has op and his 2015 will be severely hampered as a result.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

I'm presuming Watts has op and his 2015 will be severely hampered as a result.

Would they have him tracking the massive amount of ks he is doing a week if there is an overuse/degenerative injury?

Edited February 22, 2015 by Mad_Melbourne