THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL

[biggestred 5,015]

I find it really hard to believe that essendons legal team has been selective in what it tells the players. Not.

Its been clear from day 1 they havent had the full story.

I would be asking for my money back if my lawyer treated me like that.

[bing181 9,193]

Just to follow up earlier post, it seems that the info is from one of the two Essendon players who has their own lawyers and are not working through/with AFLPA.

IOW, the "independent" defense lawyer thinks that it's all over bar the shouting. It would appear that the "on-song" lawyers/players/club are still pushing the line that they believe they'll get off.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,801]

Players should have taken deals last year. Sure, they would have had "drug cheat" attached to their names forever, but people have short memories and most understand the difficult position they were put in. They could have missed bugger all games and entered 2015 with a clean slate.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Anyone else hear the Sports Professor interviewed on SEN this morning.

Basically said Peptides were no more than "anti aging agents" and that he despised WADA & [censored] Pound!!

Apparently there is a podcast up on the website.

I couldn't believe what i was hearing!!!

Just another ESSENDON plant. A well tried strategy - get a biddable academic, pay him a lot of attention, and then get him to say publicly what you want him to say. Same tactic as the tobacco industry uses and the fossil fuel industry in trying to discredit climate change. The Hirds probably thought their campaign had been a little too quiet over the last couple of weeks.

No one can say they aren't at least transparent, at least to those who have observed these strategies in other spheres.

[Melbman2 226]

Anyone else hear the Sports Professor interviewed on SEN this morning.

Basically said Peptides were no more than "anti aging agents" and that he despised WADA & [censored] Pound!!

Apparently there is a podcast up on the website.

I couldn't believe what i was hearing!!!

Sooo if they are only anti-aging agents and have no benefits to aid a persons recovery or improve performance then why would 18-30 yr olds in the peak of youth and physical fitness need them?

yes. I was thinking the same listening to the interview...

Even if the Prof is correct, it still happily shows intent on behalf of Ess considering they aren't in the anti aging biz as mentioned above

[binman 42,638]

Just another ESSENDON plant. A well tried strategy - get a biddable academic, pay him a lot of attention, and then get him to say publicly what you want him to say. Same tactic as the tobacco industry uses and the fossil fuel industry in trying to discredit climate change. The Hirds probably thought their campaign had been a little too quiet over the last couple of weeks.

No one can say they aren't at least transparent, at least to those who have observed these strategies in other spheres.

Dees2014, a query. You have made many comments about the EFC supplement saga and you seem to speak with a deal of authority on the matter. Also whilst the above quote is not an example, on many occasions you have said or implied that you have good mail on this and have made a number of clear predictions on what might be going on or what might happen in the future.

Can i ask what the basis is for your views and can you give a clue as to your sources.

Please note, I don't mean any disrespect nor am i questioning your veracity, just curious and would like to get a sense of how accurate your predictions/views might be.

For context with WJ's comments i know he is a lawyer and has good contacts in the legal world which helps me frame his comments. Similarly with GNF he has said he has contacts at the club which assists me to assess his comments and Webber clearly has some foot doctor mumbo jumbo thing going on which helps me frame his comments about injuries such as the one Trenners has suffered.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,687]

Players should have taken deals last year. Sure, they would have had "drug cheat" attached to their names forever, but people have short memories and most understand the difficult position they were put in. They could have missed bugger all games and entered 2015 with a clean slate.

As a matter of interest, does anyone know how the Cronulla players who were suspended have been subsequently treated? Are they considered by the community at large and NRL supporters to be "drug cheats" or, instead, victims of their employer's expectations?

I'm not so sure any Essendon player suspended (whether it had been via the "deal" offered last year or subsequently) will ever feel that others won't forever consider them to be drug cheats.

[hardtack 10,514]

As a matter of interest, does anyone know how the Cronulla players who were suspended have been subsequently treated? Are they considered by the community at large and NRL supporters to be "drug cheats" or, instead, victims of their employer's expectations?

I'm not so sure any Essendon player suspended (whether it had been via the "deal" offered last year or subsequently) will ever feel that others won't forever consider them to be drug cheats.

As someone who lives in Sydney, I couldn't even give you the name of a single Cronulla player that was suspended. I'm sure that the NRL "fanatics" will know who they are and will have opinions on what happened, but I get teh feeling that the general public here couldn't give a "fat rat's clacker" I would think - it certainly wasn't the water cooler talk in my office at the time it all went down.

You have to understand that Sydneysider's aren't as fanatical about their NRL as their southern and western state counterparts are about their AFL - you just have to look at game attendances to see that. Additionally, I get the feeling that NRL has had a much more controversy associated with it over the years, possibly to the point where your average punter (pun not intended) doesn't really care to much.

So essentially, I think that the Essendon players, if found guilty and suspended, will have a far tougher time of it.

[daisycutter 29,604]

probably right hardtack

after all isn't league supposed be a gentleman's game played by thugs

so if the expectation is that they are thugs then who is going to be surprised when they act like thugs

n'est-ce pas?

[old dee 23,778]

Funny that you should comment in that way hardtack as I think the view in Vic re the NRL guys is the same.

Interesting I was at a get together yesterday afternoon and the subject of sports people in general came up.

It was raised by a comment about Warner's antics yesterday.

The general comment by most was that the degree of admiration that most people had for the majority of sports people was poor.

Most said there admiration had fallen over the last ten years.

Almost to a person they thought that professional sports people were over rated and over paid.

They ( sports people ) had inflated opinions about there own importance in the scheme of things.

There was a general feeling that the only thing stopping most sports people using enhancing drugs was the fear of getting caught.

I was surprised at the level of ill feeling.

There was one Essendon supporter at the gathering who was coping a bit and his attitude was yes we cheated just a shame we got caught.

I am not pretending this is some of indication of the general feeling in the community but it made for an interesting afternoon.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

As someone who lives in Sydney, I couldn't even give you the name of a single Cronulla player that was suspended. I'm sure that the NRL "fanatics" will know who they are and will have opinions on what happened, but I get teh feeling that the general public here couldn't give a "fat rat's clacker" I would think - it certainly wasn't the water cooler talk in my office at the time it all went down.

You have to understand that Sydneysider's aren't as fanatical about their NRL as their southern and western state counterparts are about their AFL - you just have to look at game attendances to see that. Additionally, I get the feeling that NRL has had a much more controversy associated with it over the years, possibly to the point where your average punter (pun not intended) doesn't really care to much.

So essentially, I think that the Essendon players, if found guilty and suspended, will have a far tougher time of it.

I'd pretty much agree, Hardtack. I can recall Paul Gallen's name, mainly because he was (is?) the captain and made a lot of noise about being innocent. He also manages to get himself into hot water over other things quite regularly.

But the cracks have been plastered over fairly quickly, I suspect because of the fact that ASADA negotiated an outcome with the players. As a result the players only looked (and from my reading of the local press, were generally treated as being) 'a little bit guilty'.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,687]

probably right hardtack

after all isn't league supposed be a gentleman's game played by thugs

so if the expectation is that they are thugs then who is going to be surprised when they act like thugs

n'est-ce pas?

My recollection is that back in the days when rugby union was played by amateurs and league by professionals, Union was described as a thugs game played by gentlemen whereas League was a thugs game played by thugs.

[John Crow Batty 8,861]

My recollection is that back in the days when rugby union was played by amateurs and league by professionals, Union was described as a thugs game played by gentlemen whereas League was a thugs game played by thugs.

The story I heard was;

Union. A thugs game played by gentlemen.

League. A thugs game played by thugs.

Soccer. A gentleman's game played by thugs.

[old dee 23,778]

The story I heard was;

Union. A thugs game played by gentlemen.

League. A thugs game played by thugs.

Soccer. A gentleman's game played by thugs.

You have my vote adc

[rjay 24,866]

Funny that you should comment in that way hardtack as I think the view in Vic re the NRL guys is the same.

Interesting I was at a get together yesterday afternoon and the subject of sports people in general came up.

It was raised by a comment about Warner's antics yesterday.

The general comment by most was that the degree of admiration that most people had for the majority of sports people was poor.

Most said there admiration had fallen over the last ten years.

Almost to a person they thought that professional sports people were over rated and over paid.

They ( sports people ) had inflated opinions about there own importance in the scheme of things.

There was a general feeling that the only thing stopping most sports people using enhancing drugs was the fear of getting caught.

I was surprised at the level of ill feeling.

There was one Essendon supporter at the gathering who was coping a bit and his attitude was yes we cheated just a shame we got caught.

I am not pretending this is some of indication of the general feeling in the community but it made for an interesting afternoon.

That could depend a bit on the age of those talking. I know as I've got older the less I feel that sport people need to be admired, in fact with any of the olympic track athletic stars my automatic reaction is they are on the juice. That reaction holds to my opinion then holds through to my opinion.

[old dee 23,778]

That could depend a bit on the age of those talking. I know as I've got older the less I feel that sport people need to be admired, in fact with any of the olympic track athletic stars my automatic reaction is they are on the juice. That reaction holds to my opinion then holds through to my opinion.

You may be on the money rjay the group was 50+ and I have little interest in the Olympics for the same reason.

However people mentioned the likes of Armstrong, numerous 100 m sprinters, AFL teams tanking etc.

I think the cumulative effect is also in action here just not the age of people.

PS Mr Hird got plenty of comment, not even the Essendon supporter thought he should still be at the Bombers.

Edited January 19, 2015 by old dee

[hardtack 10,514]

My recollection is that back in the days when rugby union was played by amateurs and league by professionals, Union was described as a thugs game played by gentlemen whereas League was a thugs game played by thugs.

Indeed. Another great phrase (in response to their description of AFL as aerial ping pong) is Cross Country Wrestling.

[Red and Bluebeard 2,083]

Indeed. Another great phrase (in response to their description of AFL as aerial ping pong) is Cross Country Wrestling.

That is the polite version. The one I heard was cross-country bum sniffing ...

[daisycutter 29,604]

That is the polite version. The one I heard was cross-country bum sniffing ...

catch me fugme

[hardtack 10,514]

That is the polite version. The one I heard was cross-country bum sniffing ...

There was some nasty stuff that would (and probably still does) go on in those NRL scrums. Ex Souths Rabbitohs player and TV celebrity Mario Fenech lost his brother who died in an electrical accident. The low-life that is know as Benny Elias who played for Balmain Tigers used to wind Mario up in the scrums by saying "Hey Mario... zzzzztt, zzzzztt!!". Mario would bite every time and get penalised (the ref not being privee to the exchange)... just a shame he didn't do the [censored] some permanent damage.

Edited January 19, 2015 by hardtack

[deanox 9,897]

There was some nasty stuff that would (and probably still does) go on in those NRL scrums. Ex Souths Rabbitohs player and TV celebrity Mario Fenech lost his brother who died in an electrical accident. The low-life that is know as Benny Elias who played for Balmain Tigers used to wind Mario up in the scrums by saying "Hey Mario... zzzzztt, zzzzztt!!". Mario would bite every time and get penalised (the ref not being privee to the exchange)... just a shame he didn't do the [censored] some permanent damage.

As an ex-union front rower, I can confirm that a fair bit goes on in those scrums that makes no sense to anyone but the front rowers. Even the pushing and holding and wheeling etc. is a side game to the real contest. Scrums aren't always about out pushing the opposition pack. A lot of the time it is about trying to win the penalty.

I have heard that story above, but not in relation to scrums. That is horrible regardless of when it is said.

My experience suggests it is more about on field pscolohical and physical combat. Boring on angles, taking side steps, steps back. hitting hard/soft, wheeling sideways. Anticipating oposition moves and countering in a way to draw the penalty. Scrums are a lot of effort, I'm not sure if many players would have the breath or energy to sledge like that during them.

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

That could depend a bit on the age of those talking. I know as I've got older the less I feel that sport people need to be admired, in fact with any of the olympic track athletic stars my automatic reaction is they are on the juice. That reaction holds to my opinion then holds through to my opinion.

It is sad isn't it that the actions of a few can taint a whole sport. I greatly admire swimmers and understand some of the efforts they go to to succeed - 5.30am starts, 7-10 sessions per week plus weight sessions for the older groups and only a few weeks off a year. Kids need incredible dedication from an early age. There is pretty much no money in it unless you are a once in a generation swimmer (Thorpe, Hackett, Rice etc)

But then the entire sport suffers when someone does this

[old dee 23,778]

It is sad isn't it that the actions of a few can taint a whole sport. I greatly admire swimmers and understand some of the efforts they go to to succeed - 5.30am starts, 7-10 sessions per week plus weight sessions for the older groups and only a few weeks off a year. Kids need incredible dedication from an early age. There is pretty much no money in it unless you are a once in a generation swimmer (Thorpe, Hackett, Rice etc)

But then the entire sport suffers when someone does this

image.jpg

Unfortunately there has been an increasing incidence of these things across most sports in the last decade.

Now whenever I see or hear of a great personal performance my first reaction is I wonder what sauce he / she is on.

In my case the horse has bolted and I doubt it can ever be put back in stable.

No pun intended but now we know horses have been on the receiving end.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,687]

That is the polite version. The one I heard was cross-country bum sniffing ...

I was once advised that rugby should be described as three men pushing two men up another man's bum (ie, backside, in case the auto-censor deletes the three letter alternative)

[Whispering_Jack 29,770]

Two former Essendon players are reportedly considering deal with ASADA.

Take it with a grain of salt if the penalty is two games.