The gallop on our young backmen

[Tangled up in Red and Blue 31]

Hey guys,

Long time reader, first time poster here. Love all your work. I think the brilliant result in last night's draft has finally kicked me into gear to contribute.

One guy I'm particularly happy we managed to nab for a bargain is Oscar McDonald, and not just for the heartwarming brothers in arms story (I'm a sucker for that too).

He looks an athletic type like Tom, but more natural as a footballer. He seems to kick well, and he can mark. Maybe he can play forward, possibly even pinch hit, but most have him pegged as a defender.

Now, is it just me, or do we now have three young key defenders in Tom, Oscar and Frost with something in common: toe.

Frost is an athlete, with his big strides and smooth movement. I'm not exactly sure how he's performed in the sprints and time trials but pretty well I think, and from what I've seen in his GWS games, he is a great runner.

Oscar is reportedly quick too. He may not reach the elite speed and endurance of Tom, but then a rare few in the league could.

I reckon the three together is interesting.

We have also added Lumumba as a running back, so even with Oscar developing for another couple of years, we should see a significant step up in pace and athleticism in defence. McDonald, Frost and Lumumba all have that burst through half back as a feature of their game.

Considering this, a couple of things to ponder:

- How might this athleticism play out on game day? How will they shape up against key forwards?

(I think it certainly won't hurt, and it could be fun to watch - I love watching Tommy Mac run. But they still need to be disciplined, make good decisions and have the strength not just speed required to beat the big guys - which I think they do).

- Do you think this key back speed intake is a bit of a fluke, or a recruiting strategy?

(Obviously Lumumba was a need for half-back run but with Frost and McDonald, who were picked up as key position players, the athleticism almost seems like a bonus).

Anyway, bit long winded there but the thought of this Usain Bolt-like key defence system for years to come came to me today. It's interesting. Discuss, if you like.

[old dee 22,930]

Welcome aboard TRB

Interesting thoughts

[Tangled up in Red and Blue 31]

Welcome aboard TRB

Interesting thoughts

Thanks OD. I think I may have overdone it in my first post, haha. Just love watching T-Mac run and excited to have a couple more like him. I reckon Stretch and Petracca will add that speed and athleticism we need too.

[jnrmac 19,087]

Welcome. Good first post

We will have good flexibility and speed. I think the hallmarks of a good backline are the ability to read the flight/play, manage your opponent in a one on one sense, be able to break away to give yourself time and space s o that you can make good decisions and deliver the ball effectively to a team mate up the field.

The recruits we have tick all of this boxes and should allow players like Howe to play fwd. The backline is shaping up really well and I ask if anyone here now thinks that Frawley leaving wasn't a great result for the Dees as it forced us to look around and shore up the backline (let alone deliver us Brayshaw)

[Tangled up in Red and Blue 31]

Welcome. Good first post

We will have good flexibility and speed. I think the hallmarks of a good backline are the ability to read the flight/play, manage your opponent in a one on one sense, be able to break away to give yourself time and space s o that you can make good decisions and deliver the ball effectively to a team mate up the field.

The recruits we have tick all of this boxes and should allow players like Howe to play fwd. The backline is shaping up really well and I ask if anyone here now thinks that Frawley leaving wasn't a great result for the Dees as it forced us to look around and shore up the backline (let alone deliver us Brayshaw)

Cheers jnrmac.

I think the new defenders should free up Howe to return forward. Will be interesting to see how the coaches see it and where he plays next year.

Frawley's pace and strength were assets but I reckon Frost has those same attributes and will be a fine replacement.

And yes, Brayshaw, what a win, looks like a future champ with a personality to match.

Looking forward to seeing how the new recruits fit into the team.

[DeeSpencer 23,205]

Speed is vital for key defenders. Has been for years.

Tommy McDonald isn't actually that fast. He has really good endurance though and will be working on his speed this preseason. He has the endurance to go with CHF types like Nick Riewoldt, but will be even better if he can match guys like Franklin or Cameron or even bigger guys like Hawkins and Roughead who push off and then need to be caught on the lead.

Apparently Oscar is a bit quicker but I'm sure they will be trying to build his speed as well as size and strength as he develops.

Frost is very quick that's for sure. He's very prototypical of a young key defender. Disciplined and quick.

Remember these guys are trying to replace Frawley who was as fast as anyone on our list and at his best used his pace to shut down forwards and rebound the ball.

Key defender is definitely a developmental position. Sometimes you will draft a polished defender (see Jake Lever or Michael Hurley) but most of the time you take athletic kids and build them up from there.

[Red and Bluebeard 2,043]

Welcome TRB. No idea how he will turn out, but the main task for the MFC is to develop him into whatever he can be ...

[Tangled up in Red and Blue 31]

Speed is vital for key defenders. Has been for years.

Tommy McDonald isn't actually that fast. He has really good endurance though and will be working on his speed this preseason. He has the endurance to go with CHF types like Nick Riewoldt, but will be even better if he can match guys like Franklin or Cameron or even bigger guys like Hawkins and Roughead who push off and then need to be caught on the lead.

Apparently Oscar is a bit quicker but I'm sure they will be trying to build his speed as well as size and strength as he develops.

Frost is very quick that's for sure. He's very prototypical of a young key defender. Disciplined and quick.

Remember these guys are trying to replace Frawley who was as fast as anyone on our list and at his best used his pace to shut down forwards and rebound the ball.

Key defender is definitely a developmental position. Sometimes you will draft a polished defender (see Jake Lever or Michael Hurley) but most of the time you take athletic kids and build them up from there.

Yeah true. Key defenders have a difficult job.

I guess I wasn't really thinking of the loss of Frawley in my elated post-draft post - we did need to recruit speed back there just to replace him.

But Frost, Oscar and Lumumba is a good result. TMac and Frost as young key backs will need to use their run and work on strength and smarts to control the monsters like Franklin, Roughead and Hawkins next year.

[DeeSpencer 23,205]

Yeah true. Key defenders have a difficult job.

I guess I wasn't really thinking of the loss of Frawley in my elated post-draft post - we did need to recruit speed back there just to replace him.

But Frost, Oscar and Lumumba is a good result. TMac and Frost as young key backs will need to use their run and work on strength and smarts to control the monsters like Franklin, Roughead and Hawkins next year.

We didn't have the real James Frawley this year anyway, and really not much last couple. So I can understand overlooking him. But Frost and young Oscar does give us depth to work with and Dunn and Garland hopefully can either complement them or play so well playing above their size that it wont matter as Dunn did at times this year.

Lumumba provides speed and run from a smaller half back and wing role which is probably still one of our bigger weaknesses

[Akum 2,660]

I think in the games we played well last season, our transition from defence to attack was pretty good.

But in the games we played badly, it was appalling.

The same applies to getting a clean breakaway clearance from stoppages, which is also a type of transition play.

To me, this is where we have so much catching up to do. But our trading & drafting has gone a long way towards getting the capability to do this, both out of defence and around the stoppages.

[Moonshadow 16,274]

Good first post Tangled. I also like the mix of very young (OMac), youngish with some experience(TMac, Frost) and experienced (Dunn, Garland and Lumumba). Throw Jetta and maybe Grimes into the mix and there is some kind of future happening there.

[old dee 22,930]

Good first post Tangled. I also like the mix of very young (OMac), youngish with some experience(TMac, Frost) and experienced (Dunn, Garland and Lumumba). Throw Jetta and maybe Grimes into the mix and there is some kind of future happening there.

Grimes might struggle to get a spot IMO

If he cannot get a half back spot he will have even more trouble in the middle which I don't think is his go anyway.

A captain without a position

Well he can captain Casey I guess.

[mdemon 266]

Notwithstanding his less than glorious last couple of seasons, Chip did have the two indispensable qualities of a good defender, strength & positioning for the one-on-ones plus excellent closing speed for the KPF on a lead.

If our current crop can emulate those traits, then the key issue is whether we have the personnel to 'mop up' and then run or pass the ball out of the back half with minimal risk (of turnover).

Grimes and 'The Prince' don't inspire confidence - Salem/Toumpas?

[brey9186 102]

Im actually excited to see Grimes as part of the midfield rotation, while he isnt the best at anything, he is hard at it, and his skills wont as much an issue forward of centre, especially if we have taller FWDs to bomb too

[ThreeOneSix 953]

It will depend what direction the game of AFL shifts to.

If the game shifts towards rolling mauls then we'll see the ball bombed in more - which could spell trouble for our backman.

But if the game shifts away from rolling mauls and more towards spread and rebound - then we'll be laughing.

Most likely we'll see shifts between both styles of play, as the game evolves so quickly.

Frost appears as though he'd be suited to either a lock down roll - or rebound.

The McDonald boys might need to put on some size, and I'm not completely sold on Tom at present.

Garland can play either tall or rebound, and Lumumba is a proven commodity.

Grimes will need a good year in 2015 to keep out the likes of Toumpas, Salem and possibly even ANB in 2016.

I cannot see Jack Grimes either holding a spot down back - or in the midfield - come 2016.

[leucopogon 1,468]

Oscar's disposal coming out of defence (if that's where he plays) could be a weapon. I noticed this season, that opposing teams would give TMac space when we brought the ball out of defence, and quite often it would end up in his hands and half the time his questionable disposal would lead to either a) a direct turnover or b) the loss of any rebounding momentum. We need as many elite disposers by foot coming out of the back half as possible. Really stoked we got Oscar.

[mdemonski2 403]

I get the feeling Oscar may also be looked at as a forward. He seems a better kick than Tom and slightly taller so maybe even a forward/chop out ruck. We may be light on for that type of player so Oscar may be a good match.

[Bossdog 2,002]

A lot on here berate our kicking out of the backline......If you look at what they had to kick to when breaking away you would understand that they had no one and therefore had to break momentum which causes indecision and turnovers, sideways kicking, handball backwards until someone was free.

I think with a stronger forward line these deficenties will improve and our speed out of the back line will be more polished than it has been......

[dee-luded 2,958]

Grimes might struggle to get a spot IMO

If he cannot get a half back spot he will have even more trouble in the middle which I don't think is his go anyway.

A captain without a position

Well he can captain Casey I guess.

competing with McKenzie?

[Pates 9,537]

Good first post and welcome aboard. I think speed out of the backline is something that Roos has identified we lack in, and he has addressed that by getting in HL. I don't know much about Frost or Oscar McDonald, but I do know that Tom has good speed for his size and great endurance so all things going well we'll be looking much better in that department.

My other concern though with our backline is a lack of good ball users. HL I don't rate as a great kick, he's got dash and likes to deliver it long but doesn't hit up targets very well. Tom I have my heart in my mouth every time he goes short, so inevitably I like him to go long to a contest and play the percentages. Grimes WAS good, now he really struggles. Garland is the same as Grimes.

Again I don't know much about Frost and Oscar, but I don't think I've heard much about their delivery.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

A lot on here berate our kicking out of the backline......If you look at what they had to kick to when breaking away you would understand that they had no one and therefore had to break momentum which causes indecision and turnovers, sideways kicking, handball backwards until someone was free.

I think with a stronger forward line these deficenties will improve and our speed out of the back line will be more polished than it has been......

Steady, you will get yourself disliked for actually understanding some of the issues we have had, two 18 yr olds is the answer to everything according to some on here

[demoniac 1,243]

It has been hard to judge our defenders in recent seasons because of the high number of Inside Defensive 50s that we have been conceding.

Hopefully as we improve our midfield depth that number should trend down to league averages.

With Tommy Mac, Frost and Oscar Mac we do have key defensive depth which is critical (except of you are Freo of course).

All are young and need to develop their games ie Tommy Mac needs to work on his decision making/kicking. He does tend to get into lots of good positions with his run and carry, just needs to execute better.