Post Match Discussion - Round 17

[Sambo06 222]

Why dont you discuss the post instead of attacking the poster. He's not far wrong, I don't see us getting much out of a Watts trade he's just far too soft, I've never seen someone on a footy field so consistently scared of copping any contact, you'd think he was a haemophiliac or something.

Just like you attack the players from behind your keyboards? No thanks mate.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,383]

Our forward line was a disgrace today.

How many intercept marks did they take? How many possession did Geelong defenders with no pressure?

[Whispering_Jack 29,240]

CATS AND DOGS by George on The Outer

Usually the phrase "cats and dogs" is reserved for heavy downpours of rain and bad weather. And with the weather at the MCG showing a temperature that barely got into double figures, it was a similar scoreboard outcome for the Demons when they turned up to play the Cats.

And Cats and Dogs it was.

The Cats rained goals and the Demons played like Dogs.

Not a solitary goal in the first quarter again, and trailing by 10 goals at half time, the supporters were hoping that the heavens truly opened to slow down the Geelong scoring.

Whether they took the foot off the accelerator or just stopped trying too hard in the second half, the final score showed a similar margin at the final bell.

Paul Roos said before the game,

"We've still got seven dress-rehearsal games for pre-season, that's the way I look at it,".and "For some of them you can shape your career in a pretty short space of time."

Well today some had their careers truly shaped and it wont be the way they would like.

Luke Tapscott marked his cards with a 4 kick and zero mark performance. Jack Watts has probably got trade at all costs on his ticket, after yet another lacklustre performance.

Yet Aidan Riley with a 17 disposal and 7 tackle game, not to mention the G & D that he shows all the time has his card marked as a keeper for 2015.

When we see Lynden Dunn playing forward, James Frawley down back again and Cam Pedersen making his mark around the ground, then we know that Roos is true to his word. He now knows a thing or two about those sorts of players and what he can do with them in the future its the fringe players who are either choosing not to or are incapable of performing at the standard required by Roos who are writing their tickets right now.

In contrast Geelong showed little which would suggest a Grand Final appearance this year. Yes they are methodical and their players are willing to run to space and provide options, but there are an awful lot of ordinary players in that side now, who are being held in good stead by the likes of Johnson, Bartel, Selwood and Kelly.

Would that the Demons had players of that quality to rely upon!

Unfortunately, we depend on second year players like Jack Viney to show how the game should be played, or Mark Jamar who showed resilience and fortitude all day long in the ruck.

We all know these couple of games are a real test for the club, as they have to play 5 of the top 6 sides in an 8 week period. We could not expect to win against such quality at this end of the season, but the team is being let down again by those who capitulate all that easily when the game gets a little tough.

Roos job is being made really, really easy. There wont be players who are marginal, there wont be an argument about whether they can or cant. The proof is being made all too obvious through actual performance.

There will be no room for Dogs in a Demons side in 2015.

Melbourne 0.2.2 2.5.17 4.6.30 5.6.36

Geelong 3.7.25 11.10.76 12.13.85 14.18.102

Goals

Melbourne Howe 2 Keny Pedersen Vince

Geelong Hawkins 3 Johnson Kersten 2 Bartel Christensen Duncan Guthrie Hartman McIntosh Motlop

Best

Melbourne Riley Viney Garland Howe N Jones Frawley

Geelong Selwood Motlop Johnson McIntosh Mackie Kelly Guthrie

Injuries

Melbourne Nil

Geelong (knee)

Changes

Melbourne Nil

Geelong Nil

Reports

Melbourne Nil

Geelong Nil

Umpires Stevic, Hay, Armstrong

Crowd 36,385 at the MCG

[Dr. Gonzo 23,723]

Just like you attack the players from behind your keyboards? No thanks mate.

How is it attacking? This is a discussion forum to discuss the MFC part of that is going to include critiquing players. If that's too much for your sensitive mind then you and Saty should start up your own glad-handing club down at training each week and leave the rest of us to discuss the diabolical state of this once great footy club.

[Sambo06 222]

How is it attacking? This is a discussion forum to discuss the MFC part of that is going to include critiquing players. If that's too much for your sensitive mind then you and Saty should start up your own glad-handing club down at training each week and leave the rest of us to discuss the diabolical state of this once great footy club.

By all means, you, Picket, WYL, jackaub and anyone else can discuss/debate as much as you like. But when you call players all sorts of disparaging names and question their integrity, what do you expect? Our list may be poor and lacking in skill and talent, but they don't go out there to not try. I don't mind critiquing, but outright abuse is disgusting and shows the lack of class you and your mates have. I cannot, and will not, listen to you all abusing someone else's husband/son/brother just because they are AFL footballers. That does not give you the right to verbally attack them as "spuds", "duds" or whatever else your small minds can come up with. They too are human beings. I'm just as pizzed off as anyone with our performances over the years, but I will never resort to this sort of childish behaviour. How you can all justify it beggars belief. Grow up. It's a game of Footy, not life itself.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

By all means, you, Picket, WYL, jackaub and anyone else can discuss/debate as much as you like. But when you call players all sorts of disparaging names and question their integrity, what do you expect? Our list may be poor and lacking in skill and talent, but they don't go out there to not try. I don't mind critiquing, but outright abuse is disgusting and shows the lack of class you and your mates have. I cannot, and will not, listen to you all abusing someone else's husband/son/brother just because they are AFL footballers. That does not give you the right to verbally attack them as "spuds", "duds" or whatever else your small minds can come up with. They too are human beings. I'm just as pizzed off as anyone with our performances over the years, but I will never resort to this sort of childish behaviour. How you can all justify it beggars belief. Grow up. It's a game of Footy, not life itself.

Sorry. Is this any better?

"I tell you what guys that Jack Watts, he is a lovely fellow and every time he doesn't go hard enough at the ball I just want to shake my fist at him. I pay hundreds of dollars each year and that... man.... just makes my blood boil. Next time he does that I can't wait to come on Demonland and tell everyone how disappointing he is and that, while he is a human being, his efforts today was well below par.:

Fair suck of the old sav Sambo. You can play the Dad role all you like, but if you don't like people calling players "spuds" then don't read it. When a player puts in week after week of rubbish performances that's what they get. And rightfully so, as long as it doesn't get personal, which calling a player a 'spud' isn't.

[Sambo06 222]

Sorry. Is this any better?

"I tell you what guys that Jack Watts, he is a lovely fellow and every time he doesn't go hard enough at the ball I just want to shake my fist at him. I pay hundreds of dollars each year and that... man.... just makes my blood boil. Next time he does that I can't wait to come on Demonland and tell everyone how disappointing he is and that, while he is a human being, his efforts today was well below par.:

Fair suck of the old sav Sambo. You can play the Dad role all you like, but if you don't like people calling players "spuds" then don't read it. When a player puts in week after week of rubbish performances that's what they get. And rightfully so, as long as it doesn't get personal, which calling a player a 'spud' isn't.

Do you even read anyone else's posts? I quoted spud etc only because I couldn't bring myself to repeat some of the other crap these dudes spew. Like I said, grow up.

[Damo 3,254]

I'm still here jack. Unfortunately, so are you. Watts is a very good player playing in an ordinary side. Supply has been awesome into our forward line hasn't it. By playing Watts, Salem, Kent etc up there, we risk crucifying potentially good careers.

My Godfather!

Standing in the rain on the steps watching Jack Watts I wondered if he just thought that the conditions dont suit him?

To read some (if you cant say anything etc...) think that his team mates are hindering JW's career, is deeply disappointing.

One level because it is possible thats what he might think.

Another level it makes me wonder if many MFC fans are inclined to think that.

But mostly because of Jack Viney's brave efforts today.

[Sambo06 222]

My Godfather!

Standing in the rain on the steps watching Jack Watts I wondered if he just thought that the conditions dont suit him?

To read some (if you cant say anything etc...) think that his team mates are hindering JW's career, is deeply disappointing.

One level because it is possible thats what he might think.

Another level it makes me wonder if many MFC fans are inclined to think that.

But mostly because of Jack Viney's brave efforts today.

Listen to Roosy's presser and then get back to me mate.

[bing181 8,999]

Riley was terrible.

Football, like life, is never that black-and-white.

I was there, spent very little time in the bar, and Riley had a solid, gutsy game where he put in and (at least) tried. He also had some glaring clangers - to be expected given his inexperience and the team/players he was up against.

[Adam The God 29,417]

Our forward line was a disgrace today.

How many intercept marks did they take? How many possession did Geelong defenders with no pressure?

It's not the forwardline, it's the delivery. We need to move the ball quicker and gut run to make an option inside fifty, if there isn't already one.

By all means, you, Picket, WYL, jackaub and anyone else can discuss/debate as much as you like. But when you call players all sorts of disparaging names and question their integrity, what do you expect? Our list may be poor and lacking in skill and talent, but they don't go out there to not try. I don't mind critiquing, but outright abuse is disgusting and shows the lack of class you and your mates have. I cannot, and will not, listen to you all abusing someone else's husband/son/brother just because they are AFL footballers. That does not give you the right to verbally attack them as "spuds", "duds" or whatever else your small minds can come up with. They too are human beings. I'm just as pizzed off as anyone with our performances over the years, but I will never resort to this sort of childish behaviour. How you can all justify it beggars belief. Grow up. It's a game of Footy, not life itself.

When did Gonzo verbally attack the players? What a load of rubbish. That's completely untrue.

I'm sick of this high and mighty twaddle that is often only substantiated by plainly fabricated remarks, such as saying certain posters refer to our players as 'spuds', 'duds' etc. Give it a rest. Demonland is a discussion forum, where posters have a right to express their opinions on an ability of a player. It mightn't be an accurate assessment or you might disagree, but it is their opinion nonetheless. I don't agree with calling players 'spuds' or 'duds' etc, but they're terms that are rarely used on Demonland. I see those phrases typed more by Saty more than I see it proffered as abuse.

[Sambo06 222]

It's not the forwardline, it's the delivery. We need to move the ball quicker and gut run to make an option inside fifty, if there isn't already one.

When did Gonzo verbally attack the players? What a load of rubbish. That's completely untrue.

I'm sick of this high and mighty twaddle that is often only substantiated by plainly fabricated remarks, such as saying certain posters refer to our players as 'spuds', 'duds' etc. Give it a rest. Demonland is a discussion forum, where posters have a right to express their opinions on an ability of a player. It mightn't be an accurate assessment or you might disagree, but it is their opinion nonetheless. I don't agree with calling players 'spuds' or 'duds' etc, but they're terms that are rarely used on Demonland. I see those phrases typed more by Saty more than I see it proffered as abuse.

Typical, sticking up for your keyboard warrior mate. Like I keep saying dude, grow up. Read back over some of these threads and give an honest appraisal of discussing ability (which, by the way, I have no problem with) or character assassination. Get back to me.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Didn't realize players went out for drinks at 2am after a catastrophic loss! Probably says a lot about our culture and "leadership". Sigh.

[robbiefrom13 877]

ok, but in the last quarter Nathan Jones with plenty of time assessed his options and chose to kick across the ground to a Jack Watts one-on-one, which Watts is not likely to win, and the ball duly went out-of-bounds; it highlighted Watts' inability to do what his captain was in that instance asking of him; later Jones again had a kick and time to choose what to do, and while Jack Watts charged into space at centre-half-forward, Jones stood thinking about things and the lead died. By the time Jones kicked, we lost the ball. I know these are just two incidents, but to me they are consistent with the pattern of a lot of what the team keeps on doing. And they illustrate a lot about Watts, too.

Melbourne do not act quickly enough to seize opportunities, do not encourage spreading by honouring leads, are far, far, far too slow to move the ball. The quick kick forward has to be the option; it may cause a score; what they do now doesn't and won't. All very frustrating (and dreadful to watch) - but here's the thing about Jack Watts as I see it:

Jack Watts would look an entirely different proposition in a team that moved the ball quickly. He is a great ball user, he is quick - but he's not Neeld's man, at his natural best in body-on-body work. How come we can't use him? The worst player-use thing I've seen at Melbourne since they thought Flower might make a half back instead of a wingman was the idea that Jurrah needed to become a defender; today, our failure to use Watts at what he's capable of, and persistence in rubbing his nose in what he's not naturally good at, is - for me - as frustrating as it is seeing him not throwing himself at it more. If we trade Watts, to a team who put his abilities to use and does not go on trying to turn him into a one-size-fits-all what-he's-not, it will hurt seeing him become what we know he could be. But, if we did trade him, and he did become what we know he could be, that will be why.

Dumb, Melbourne. Dumb. Poke back through the annals and look again at how we used Jakovitch. He was a match-winner, at times criticised for looking uninterested. But surely he knew what he could do. We used him on his terms, and it worked. Unimaginative is dumb.

Loved Viney yesterday.

(I don't know why I post - bound to be ignored or dumped on. But nobody else is saying it, and I think it's there in front of you.)

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Funny thing with Watts is I keep hearing from the 'experts' that he is having a good year and is thriving under Roos. If this is his best then god help us. He had 1 excellent game in round 1, maybe 2 or 3 acceptable games, and the rest have been rubbish.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

It's typical there are too many posters who don't know much about football, the same people with no idea blame watts, if the inside mids dont get their hands on the footy then how the heck can the outside player get the ball, there is two parts of a clearance, first the insider wins the ball then he feed it to the outsider, the second player can't happen when the insider can't get his hands on the footy

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,217]

Yep....the three Cs....contest, competitive and combative.

Our list has 4 who fit this bill.....the real skipper, Tyson, Viney and Dawes. That means we gotta find 18 more....

Dunn didn't have his best game yesterday but fits that criteria. I would also add Tmac and Jetta to that list.

Two that didn't play yesterday - Salem is skilful and has footy smarts, from what I've seen(most but not all of his games) puts himself in the right places and can hold his ground/out smart his player. JKH.......we know he needs to work on some areas of his game but I think we have the makings of a player there. But yes we have many that don't fit that criteria.

[CityDee 738]

It's typical there are too many posters who don't know much about football, the same people with no idea blame watts, if the inside mids dont get their hands on the footy then how the heck can the outside player get the ball, there is two parts of a clearance, first the insider wins the ball then he feed it to the outsider, the second player can't happen when the insider can't get his hands on the footy

True words and very clear as explained by Roosy in the press conference for those doubters.

[frankie_d 1,467]

True words and very clear as explained by Roosy in the press conference for those doubters.

Ross knows more about footy than all of us put together... Agreed. But he's also a good operator with the press, and won't bag his players in public.

But does anyone seriously believe that the outside player doesn't have to sometimes win his own ball? I can't remember Watts winning too often in a one on one contest..Takes the odd mark...

No comparison with, say, Goddard

[chook fowler 19,264]

Overall I have been a Watts supporter but yesterday he took lack of effort, disengagement and poor attitude to a new level. That doesn't mean I think he should be traded but it wasn't good enough and for that there are no excuses.

[Lucifers Hero 38,985]

Jack Watts would look an entirely different proposition in a team that moved the ball quickly. He is a great ball user, he is quick - but he's not Neeld's man, at his natural best in body-on-body work. How come we can't use him? The worst player-use thing I've seen at Melbourne since they thought Flower might make a half back instead of a wingman was the idea that Jurrah needed to become a defender; today, our failure to use Watts at what he's capable of, and persistence in rubbing his nose in what he's not naturally good at, is - for me - as frustrating as it is seeing him not throwing himself at it more. If we trade Watts, to a team who put his abilities to use and does not go on trying to turn him into a one-size-fits-all what-he's-not, it will hurt seeing him become what we know he could be. But, if we did trade him, and he did become what we know he could be, that will be why.

.

That is the $64 question? As a Watts fan I just hope someone finds the answer real soon.

The back line in the Neeld days didn't seem to suit him. But even Roos is finding it difficult. I remember that Roos started with the idea of playing Jack as an elite midfielder ala Pendlebury and that is where his preseason work was. Unfortunately that role lasted about 5-6 weeks. Roos comment on lack of performace was about they were 'confusing' Jack asking him to play various roles and he wasn't get enough bench time which is why he looked lethargic. So he went to play as a high half-forward where he has put in some good cameo performances.

Hard to know what is Jack's position to make the most of his exceptional talents. It must be driving the coaches crazy behind the scenes.

That Jack as an elite midfielder didn't work out means that Roos now has to go out and find one using a very valuable draft pick. So Jack not performing on the field is hurting us in a number of ways.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Lucifer's Hero

[Deecisive 1,709]

Lets not forget that we played a very SUCCESSFUL, well drilled and settled team who have adopted a game plan and play to it. We are still very much work in progress. Tyson, Riley and Vince are all new to the club and are really in the first year of learning and understanding the strengths and weaknesses of each other. We will be a much better side when we can have a midfield that works on equal terms with our opponents so that we do not have to be a man down in attack. The Cats and most other teams have made us pay big time by using the spare man in defense to launch their attacks off the half back line, which results in our players running around trying to cover.

I am amazed considering how well the cats played that we did not loose by more, this was looking like a 100+ point drubbing and last year it would have been, this year Roos plan has made us more competitive. We still dont have the players with the fitness and skill necessary to play the level of attacking football that the swans do, but with Hogan and hopefully Trengrove coming back to some of his early form (with perhaps a bit better disposal efficiency) will be big pluses for next year. The rest of our list improvement is going to be trade and swap to get the players we need, you can bet Roos and Co will be very focused on the type of player they want. The deals and trading done last year was pretty damn good, if we can do the same or better again then we will be far more competitive next year and we will win a lot more games. There has only been a couple of games that we have been smashed in and that is a real positive if we can get that incremental improvement next year to win most of those.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

I don't think the list can be improved by trading, with 18 teams are all doing the same thing, we can only hope the young players can take the next step, tyson has been very good for the first 12 weeks, but in the last few weeks has burned out, if he stays fit for the rest of the season than it will be his first full season, and with players like threngrove, and.cross out there is little help for him with seasoned harden players around him!!!

[jumbo returns 6,703]

Dawes is on AFL Gameday now for those who are interested....

Fairly uninspiring.....seems really flat.

[jumbo returns 6,703]

PS - they showed footage of Jesse Hogan jogging and he looked very proppy.

Hope is that he'll play one AFL game this year.