Our list is still 1-2drafts away from a top list. Roos main aim was percentage improvement this year with wins being a bonus. Despite the disappointment and frustration at a loss I think we are on target and those with poor work rate and skills will be moved on.

Am seriously looking forward to f'k'ng off our list cloggers for some actual decent talent.

Me too. Pedo, Jetta and Dunn (Bail too, a bit) have saved their arses.

The rest:

Byrnes - Over the hill.

Blease - Will never be what Roos wants.

Strauss - [censored].

Riley - Harsh, but we gave him the lifeline and he hasn't shown enough.

Nicholson - Merchant.

Evans - [censored].

Tapscott - Just doesn't get enough of it and doesn't have a position.

Terlich - Diabolical when his shoulders began to bear weight of expectation.

Club is still devoid of experienced leaders, so lets bring in 3 top 25 kids and one or two more older types. O'Keefe; whatever.

Watts may well have already been on his way to the bench but surely he still needed to be aware as anyone on the ground is still in play. Its this kind of game slip ups which kill us We have to be switched on for 100% of the game....every game.

What was he meant to do? There's a sub cap these days so it's not ideal to lose track.

Roos calls Watts off, he has to come off. He's just listening to what the coach wants.

Roosy's fault to call a player off near the ball, not Watts'.

Me too. Pedo, Jetta and Dunn (Bail too, a bit) have saved their arses.

The rest:

Byrnes - Over the hill.

Blease - Will never be what Roos wants.

Strauss - [censored].

Riley - Harsh, but we gave him the lifeline and he hasn't shown enough.

Nicholson - Merchant.

Evans - [censored].

Tapscott - Just doesn't get enough of it and doesn't have a position.

Terlich - Diabolical when his shoulders began to bear weight of expectation.

Club is still devoid of experienced leaders, so lets bring in 3 top 25 kids and one or two more older types. O'Keefe; whatever.

Wouldn't argue with any of those, although as you say Riley might get another year after coming off a rather serious injury. I have a soft spot for Tappy but I fear that, unless he comes into the side and really shows something, his time is up.

Regardless of if Frawley leaves I can see Roos putting our first pick up for grabs again if it means landing another quality midfielder as the last thing we need is another developing tall down in the magoos. We might also snaffle a player or two in free agency and hope to improve further.

Another competitive game. But we've been there for a while now, so its no longer good enough and the players have got to understand that next step is required from respectable losses. Its up to the coaching staff to get the message through. Players have to toughen up a lot and win at any cost. Don't care how, or how we go about it, the players just have to get it done. Losing is no longer an option and as a football team they must come to beat Freo next week.

What was he meant to do? There's a sub cap these days so it's not ideal to lose track.

Roos calls Watts off, he has to come off. He's just listening to what the coach wants.

Roosy's fault to call a player off near the ball, not Watts'.

Keep his eye on the bloody ball.

Chrissy Amphlett was right. It truly is a fine line between pleasure and pain.
Watts kicks that goal and we win, I am guessing that the 'Land would have exploded into an orgy of self congratulation of how Roos is a genius and how the boys never gave up. I would have hated to have seen what would have happened had we lost against the Dons (truth is, as PR said, we should have lost that by 80). I remember BBO having a sly chuckle at BomberBlitz and their reaction to the Dons loss to us. If you were a Dogs fan now, you might do the same thing when looking at Demonland.

I have tried to take the middle ground on where we are at. I don't believe there will be ten delistings/trades at the end of the year. However, you can bet dollars to donuts that some blokes will go.
As far as Chip goes, he did cost himself at the end. Keep in mind however that he got Jones dragged and Stringer wasn't what he was when Chip moved onto him. I personally think he will leave BUT we shouldn't be blinded by his non-committal to the club when assessing his performances.

As for the people joining in that circle jerk about being 'over Tom McDonald', who do you actually want back there? Chip? Brain is elsewhere. Garlo? Wasted year! (All the while, we are averaging 30 less points against). We could have used Tommy Mac today.

I will say however the club is at a bit of a crossroads and it will be interesting to see which direction we go. We all remember 2010. Lots of people were pumping up our tyres then. Improvement apparently meant 'mission accomplished'. A lot of the players who are at the club then are still at the club now. I hope their memories don't fail them.

There has been lots of talk about how 'We fear no other team' and that is great. However, that doesn't mean that you get ahead of where you are. We played like we thought we were better than we are in that second quarter.

Such a shame that there's nobody really pressing from below. At least 3 from today should be automatic outs. I think Roos is trying to make the guys in the twos earn it and would have dropped Salem, for example, weeks ago if there was anyone to promote.

Also, FFS.

When Toumpas is barely racking up double touches in the VFL and the two players taken immediately after him are starring - one is allowed to be frustrated.

It's no longer HERHERHER Wines > Toumpas.

It may not be Jimmy's fault, but we have overlooked half a dozen very good kids after him to draft one who isn't showing a whole lot.

Ask yourself this question, why is he stagnating and all the others progressing when he was a clear top 4 pick all draft year? The poor kid was so excited on draft night to be picked up, he didn't stop to think which career killing Club picked him. Had he gone at pick 5,6 or 7 the poor kid would have been developed properly and not cast aside after a supposedly poor 18 touch game against the Eagles Round 2. Whereas others are consistently racking up anywhere from 2 to 8 touches and keep getting selected. Who wouldn't drop their bundle out at Casey (2 average games out of 11 by the way) playing in front of two cats and a dog with a soul destroying outfit that can't even work out when their players are supposed to come onto the ground as an interchange. The picture of Toump screaming at the dud with folded arms watching the game will stick in my mind for a long time. I'm sure this is what he pictured that night in November 2012.

Also, FFS.

When Toumpas is barely racking up double touches in the VFL and the two players taken immediately after him are starring - one is allowed to be frustrated.

It's no longer HERHERHER Wines > Toumpas.

It may not be Jimmy's fault, but we have overlooked half a dozen very good kids after him to draft one who isn't showing a whole lot.

No ffs you and your mates Os and the great bullstish artist HH need to get off that high horse. He is in yr 2, again the supposed senior and middle tier players are the ones who are the leaders.

Look at the top clubs, hawks, cats, swans, pies etc very few 1st and 2nd year players come through and dominate from year 1. They give the young ones time. Give the likes of Toumpas, Salem and Barry time to grow. It is our need for the middle aged and older players who can kick and handball to a teammate that kills us, we will be trading for older players again this off season.

Watts may well have already been on his way to the bench but surely he still needed to be aware as anyone on the ground is still in play. Its this kind of game slip ups which kill us We have to be switched on for 100% of the game....every game.

Thats why we employed a top notch coach.

He will get these bad habits out of the list .

Our 2 laziest players unfortunately are the 2 most popular with the fans.

This will change as he stamps the no nonsense refuse to give up style,he did it at swans and will do it here.

The bullies mids are a season in front of us on the learning scale.

Just for some perspective, this is Roosy from the Presser tonight....

"I'm paid to teach these guys what AFL footy is. They had no idea. So that's my challenge, to be able to do that and teach them as quickly as we possibly can."

How many other coaches are spending the year teaching the entire list what AFL standard is? It's probably us and GWS.

Just for some perspective, this is Roosy from the Presser tonight....

"I'm paid to teach these guys what AFL footy is. They had no idea. So that's my challenge, to be able to do that and teach them as quickly as we possibly can."

How many other coaches are spending the year teaching the entire list what AFL standard is? It's probably us and GWS.

That phrase right there sticks out the most to me. A stark reminder of how bad we were 12 months ago and that patience, ever the virtue, is still required in spades.

Dropping the ball seems to be now a thing of the past...there were plenty today, especially in the second half that were overlooked.

If Barry's tackle on Murphy (happy to be corrected) on our half forward line in the last was paid...we may have a different result.

For the last time there is no such rule as dropping the ball. Got it?

It is incorrect disposal.

Things you'll find on Demonland after a loss:

• No matter how he plays Watts is potted. One possession out of his 15-20 will be a turnover or he doesn't win a one on one contest and we spend pages dumping on the bloke and focusing on that.
• Toumpas will be blamed, directly or indirectly, for the loss and for our horrid drafting, even when he isn't even in the side.
• Everyone will ask for 'Player A' to replace 'Player B', even though 'Player A' has been not been doing much in the reserves side and offers little in the seniors. But they will be 'the answer' to our pace or disposal problems.
• Our horrible drafting
• Still horrible drafting
• We could have had Wines etc etc
• If Frawley has even an average game everyone will tear him down, claim he is gone and that we can't wait to get MORE top end picks, even though 90% of the posters have whinged about how bad our drafting has been.

Some of these aren't necessarily wrong, just terribly predictable. We lost because we still aren't that good of a side. Yes, the Roos factor has allowed us to double our win tally and be WAY more competitive than we would have hoped for this year. But games like today still highlight how far we have to go and that we still need to be awfully patient, even when we have a right to demanding some success from our team.

Our time will come, even if it's still a few years from now.

I don't think you mentioned Toumpas vs Wines quite enough times :-(

Watts may well have already been on his way to the bench but surely he still needed to be aware as anyone on the ground is still in play. Its this kind of game slip ups which kill us We have to be switched on for 100% of the game....every game.

It ain't that hard is it but F*&^*%&^$% we make it hard.

No ffs you and your mates Os and the great bullstish artist HH need to get off that high horse. He is in yr 2, again the supposed senior and middle tier players are the ones who are the leaders.

Look at the top clubs, hawks, cats, swans, pies etc very few 1st and 2nd year players come through and dominate from year 1. They give the young ones time. Give the likes of Toumpas, Salem and Barry time to grow. It is our need for the middle aged and older players who can kick and handball to a teammate that kills us, we will be trading for older players again this off season.

That may be so but one of the best players for the winners today was Bontempelli, pick 4 this year.

Then you have several players picked after Toumpass playing regular one's and playing well.

I understand we picked Toumpass and he's a Melbourne player now so I hope he starts to play some good football. Thing is it's just as bad to try to justify the choice as it is to denigrate it; there's no way you can argue we made the right choice.

We are in an awkward position, Roos has to try to win games to keep the supporters happy; Casey doesn't allow him to develop those new to the club; we have to balance out picking youth over experience at draft time.

It's not a great position to be in, the Dogs and Brisbane have gone for youth but if it fails they are in the shyte,; should we do the same or try to rebuild using trades and later draft picks.

Any chance Dawes can bring his hands together and grab the ball when going for a mark? Best he can do is wave his mitts in the general vicinity of the ball.

Our list is still 1-2drafts away from a top list. Roos main aim was percentage improvement this year with wins being a bonus. Despite the disappointment and frustration at a loss I think we are on target and those with poor work rate and skills will be moved on.

You are making assumptions here. We have been one or two drafts from redemption for the last 8 years?

Any chance Dawes can bring his hands together and grab the ball when going for a mark? Best he can do is wave his mitts in the general vicinity of the ball.

Dawes seems to get put off rather easily if he is under pressure from the defender, he's a much better mark on a strong lead. Trouble is most of our inside 50 kicks to him are on his head making it easy for the defender, he probably should have his hands further out in front of him.

That phrase right there sticks out the most to me. A stark reminder of how bad we were 12 months ago and that patience, ever the virtue, is still required in spades.

Definately gives perspective, it's slightly saddening also

You are making assumptions here. We have been one or two drafts from redemption for the last 8 years?

Guess I have more faith in our decision makers than in the past. This years group of players recruited would support that.

For the last time there is no such rule as dropping the ball. Got it?

It is incorrect disposal.

Did I make any reference to it being a specific rule?

I was referring to the act itself...and it appeared to be overlooked a number of times for both teams..especially in the second half.

Definately gives perspective, it's slightly saddening also

No doubt about that.

On one hand the positivity surrounding Roos has been dampened as the season has progressed as the realisation of how much further we have to go dawns on us. However, on the flip side of that we have genuinely been in every game we've played this year (bar West Coast) and that's something that can't be overlooked. Roos and the FD need another pre-season to once again cut some fat, hopefully add more class, and have yet another summer of training done with a young group. It's the best we can hope for at the minute.

I think I counted five Melbourne players around Bontempelli that were closer to him than any other Bulldog player when he kicked that final goal. Surrounded by 5 Melbourne players! The guy didn't even want it, he tried to dish it off but no one else was there to help him. And we couldn't even get off our flat feet to attack the ball or the man with the ball. Only at Melbourne...