Coburg Lions v Casey Scorpions

[jnrmac 20,061]

Correct or incorrect, Welsh showed a distinct lack of both tact and control with his response.

If the last 7 years have shown us anything, it is that Welsh's choice of approach is ineffective and shouldn't be tolerated.

WTF? Just like grand sweeping statements. Shouldn't be tolerated.

[Ted Lasso 19,516]

I completely understand we are probably not in a financial position to do this, but I really feel a stand alone VFL side is a huge developmental asset that we are missing out on for both young players and coaches,

A system where the young players play the exact same role in the exact same game plan regardless of where it's seniors or reserves is huge, makes the transition a lot easier, when a bloke comes up he should slot in seamlessly.

[CHAMP 347]

I agree, but The Age have done their best to make Welsh sound like a DH in this article:

http://m.watoday.com.au/afl/afl-news/demons-improvement-lifts-spirits-says-forward-jack-fitzpatrick-20140518-zrgia.html

Wasn't aware that Welsh is also the Demons development coach, implying that he is employed by MFC.

I'm not exactly sure of that arrangement, but I thought Welsh was Casey's appointee and theirs alone.

I thought Brad Miller was our Development Coach.

Welsh played 42 games for Carlton and kicked 59 goals.

His coaching experience before joining Casey was 8 years as a TAC Coach and 4 heading Vic Metro.

Perhaps he has struggled to adapt his coaching style to senior footy.

[Ted Lasso 19,516]

I thought Brad Miller was our Development Coach.

Welsh played 42 games for Carlton and kicked 59 goals.

His coaching experience before joining Casey was 8 years as a TAC Coach and 4 heading Vic Metro.

Perhaps he has struggled to adapt his coaching style to senior footy.

Brad Miller is our development coach, as far as I am aware Welsh is not a direct employee of the MFC

[Satyriconhome 10,877]

Brad Miller is our development coach, as far as I am aware Welsh is not a direct employee of the MFC

Brett Allison is the Head of Development along with Brad Miller who is a Development Coach, please get the facts straight, if you don't think MFC had input into who is Casey coach you are mistaken, Welsh appears at quite a few training sessions in an MFC polo and goes out onto the ground.

Just to put a few more facts on the table, Allison was at Coburg speaking to players in the breaks, so was Jade Rawlings (I saw him have a word to Alex Georgiou), Miller of course was talking to the forwards, Col Garland went into the rooms at half time, so assume as being part of the Leadership group he was there to put in his bit, so MFC is all over the Casey side

[P-man 13,366]

Why?, we have posters on here constantly bemoaning the 'spin' they hear from the Club and coaches, (that has changed with Roos), but when a coach comes out and launches a broadside at the players, no spin, he is then criticised...or personally attacked by some of the more less constructive in this topic......I don't have a problem with it, assume if Roos does Welsh will be told.

The fact you can't draw a distinction between honesty from the club and an affiliate coach blasting the players in this manner says a lot about your thought process.

Anyone without some weird messiah complex can see that Welsh's comments were out of line.

[Satyriconhome 10,877]

The fact you can't draw a distinction between honesty from the club and an affiliate coach blasting the players in this manner says a lot about your thought process.

Anyone without some weird messiah complex can see that Welsh's comments were out of line.

You always want to make it about me don't you, methinks it is you with the issue, anything to actually add on the topic?

[Slartibartfast 17,273]

...another example, Blease was excellent in the first half and helped establish the 30 point lead as well as other MFC players, but he went missing in the second half...also take my word for it, Brad Miller was not exactly overjoyed with the 3rd quarter either

I was there Saty and my take was completely different. I reckon Blease has perfected the "Adem Yze" run round the back and call for the easy ball and in the first half did this repeatedly to receive "unearned" possessions. He then tried to dazzle with every disposal rather than taking the first and simple option. FWIW I can't see him playing senior footy whilst he does that unless he's under specific instructions from the coaches to play like that. The Roos game plan is built around winning contested possessions. I thought he was a lot better in the second half where he did compete more and won more of his own ball. Allisons report will be interesting.

I thought Jordie was clearly one of the best on the ground and I think of his 35 possessions most were in contested situations and most would have been handballs. Again the stats will verify this. His disposal was generally good but he still doesn't seem to find easy ball. That he wasn't named in the best was strange, he was clearly better than others who were.

I listened to Walsh's three quarter time address and shook my head. I've been going to VFL matches for some time and listed to a number of addresses and haven't heard one like it. I don't profess to be an expert by any means but it didn't inspire me.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Baghdad Bob

[rjay 24,924]

I was there Saty and my take was completely different. I reckon Blease has perfected the "Adem Yze" run round the back and call for the easy ball and in the first half did this repeatedly to receive "unearned" possessions. He then tried to dazzle with every disposal rather than taking the first and simple option. FWIW I can't see him playing senior footy whilst he does that unless he's under specific instructions from the coaches to play like that. The Roos game plan is built around winning contested possessions. I thought he was a lot better in the second half where he did compete more and won more of his own ball. Allisons report will be interesting.

I thought Jordie was clearly one of the best on the ground and I think of his 35 possessions most were in contested situations and most would have been handballs. Again the stats will verify this. His disposal was generally good but he still doesn't seem to find easy ball. That he wasn't named in the best was strange, he was clearly better than others who were.

I listened to Walsh's three quarter time address and shook my head. I've been going to VFL matches for some time and listed to a number of addresses and haven't heard one like it. I don't profess to be an expert by any means but it didn't inspire me.

Thanks 'Bob', it's good to get a few views on the game. I think one of Sam's biggest faults is he tries to do the impossible rather than do normal. He gets a lot of knocks on his kicking when he is in fact a very good kick of the ball, if he could just do normal he would be a good player.

[Machsy 2,858]

I find it interesting those that harshly criticise the quality of McKenzie's possessions.

That he is accumulating these numbers is remarkable in itself.

Remember that until recently he had been used almost solely as a tagger at AFL level in the past 2-3 years, and his possession tallies were usually in the low teens.

Finding the footy is step 1.

Step 2 is tidying up the use of the footy when you have it.

I'm pleased with his progress so far.

If he plateaus or stagnates, then we deal with it.

[Satyriconhome 10,877]

I was there Saty and my take was completely different. I reckon Blease has perfected the "Adem Yze" run round the back and call for the easy ball and in the first half did this repeatedly to receive "unearned" possessions. He then tried to dazzle with every disposal rather than taking the first and simple option. FWIW I can't see him playing senior footy whilst he does that unless he's under specific instructions from the coaches to play like that. The Roos game plan is built around winning contested possessions. I thought he was a lot better in the second half where he did compete more and won more of his own ball. Allisons report will be interesting.

I thought Jordie was clearly one of the best on the ground and I think of his 35 possessions most were in contested situations and most would have been handballs. Again the stats will verify this. His disposal was generally good but he still doesn't seem to find easy ball. That he wasn't named in the best was strange, he was clearly better than others who were.

I listened to Walsh's three quarter time address and shook my head. I've been going to VFL matches for some time and listed to a number of addresses and haven't heard one like it. I don't profess to be an expert by any means but it didn't inspire me.

Thought I saw you chap, yes I agree re Blease but I thought at least he was getting involved, he still picks the wrong option sometimes, just didn't see him trying to create in the 2nd half, thought that is what was asked of him

Glad we agree on Jordie, agreed also he does tend to revert to type now and again

I have heard that sort of speech from Welsh quite a few times, you would have thought with the strong MFC presence if there was a problem he would be told to desist

Thought Fitzy was the other one who was good for the 4 quarters, with a bit of mention of Michie

As you said after Welsh's spray, what Allison writes will be even more interesting this week

Edited May 20, 2014 by Satyriconhome

[dazzledavey36 54,922]

You always want to make it about me don't you, methinks it is you with the issue, anything to actually add on the topic?

You bring it upon yourself Saty. Anyone on here who might have a slight critic on player or staff you are quick to jump down their throat and rubbish them.

I am not surprised you are a big fan of Welsh public roast. If I remember you were a big fan of Neeld and even right up to when he got sacked you were telling us he was the right man for the job. All us supporters know that a public spray isn't healthy for our list after what it went through with Neeld. Only you your delusional self think this is still appropriate. Get with the times.

[P-man 13,366]

You always want to make it about me don't you, methinks it is you with the issue, anything to actually add on the topic?

I was responding to you, once again, making this about the supporters being unreasonable, whilst the club and anyone associated with it is infallible.

I think I made my position on the matter pretty clear.

[Satyriconhome 10,877]

You bring it upon yourself Saty. Anyone on here who might have a slight critic on player or staff you are quick to jump down their throat and rubbish them.

I am not surprised you are a big fan of Welsh public roast. If I remember you were a big fan of Neeld and even right up to when he got sacked you were telling us he was the right man for the job. All us supporters know that a public spray isn't healthy for our list after what it went through with Neeld. Only you your delusional self think this is still appropriate. Get with the times.

All about me again, post on topic, what? we have players who are not men enough to take a bit of criticism, like some on here methinks, some need to grow a pair, I didn't rubbish, I happened to be at the game, so I saw it all live and not out of context, were you?

If you weren't then you don't know what happened, which bit don't you get.

I will accept criticism of anybody as long as it has some fact behind it, I wasn't a "big fan" of Neeld, he was the coach and some of us on here could see what he was trying to achieve, but it was undermined, there were injuries etc and he went about it the wrong way (hindsight) on occasions and he was found wanting.....won't be the first coach and certainly won't be the last...I have moved on

Is Hardwick doing the right thing at the moment, have a look at the Tigers boards today, yet last season he was the Messiah who had got them back in the finals, supporters you gotta lov'em

[Satyriconhome 10,877]

I was responding to you, once again, making this about the supporters being unreasonable, whilst the club and anyone associated with it is infallible.

I think I made my position on the matter pretty clear.

Yes you have you have nothing valid to add to a topic, you spend most of it taking potshots at other posters, clear as a bell really

[rpfc 28,417]

All about me again, post on topic, what? we have players who are not men enough to take a bit of criticism, like some on here methinks, some need to grow a pair, I didn't rubbish, I happened to be at the game, so I saw it all live and not out of context, were you?

If you weren't then you don't know what happened, which bit don't you get.

I will accept criticism of anybody as long as it has some fact behind it, I wasn't a "big fan" of Neeld, he was the coach and some of us on here could see what he was trying to achieve, but it was undermined, there were injuries etc and he went about it the wrong way (hindsight) on occasions and he was found wanting.....won't be the first coach and certainly won't be the last...I have moved on

Is Hardwick doing the right thing at the moment, have a look at the Tigers boards today, yet last season he was the Messiah who had got them back in the finals, supporters you gotta lov'em

Maybe you should google 'hindsight.'

[Satyriconhome 10,877]

Maybe you should google 'hindsight.'

I don't need to google, it is a skill that a lot of the posters on here have, enables them to sit back and say "well deep down I always knew Cam Pedersen was a good player"

[P-man 13,366]

Yes you have you have nothing valid to add to a topic, you spend most of it taking potshots at other posters, clear as a bell really

It is patently obvious why his comments were out of line. It went beyond a "spray". He publicly ridiculed them for sooking it up over not getting picked.

What the conduct of tigers supporters has to do with anything, I don't know. They are infamous for their extremes in behaviour. If you're suggesting from your high chair that demon supporters are as volatile as tiger supporters, I would disagree.

Your comments on Neeld are a laugh. You vehemently defended him to the hilt, right up until him being sacked, and gave everyone who questioned his methods your usual fanboy routine.

Re Pedersen, who has claimed they "always knew he was a good player"? I've seen comments admitting they underestimated his value. Praising Roos for getting the best out of him. Etc etc. I haven't seen any claiming they always knew he was good.

You live in this delusional world where everyone here is irrational and you're the only one with your head screwed on. When will you get it into your head that this is a forum for people capable of critical thought. Not a 24/7 cheer squad.

[Whispering_Jack 30,102]

Statistics

Casey had substantially more possessions, more inside 50s and more of everything except free kicks and scores on the board. The free kick situation seems to be a recurring problem. Is that due to a lack of discipline?

* D. Barry 1 goal 1 behind 16 disposals 10 kicks 6 handballs 6 marks 2 tackles 75 Dream Team Points

* S. Blease 23 disposals 18 kicks 5 handballs 5 marks 1 tackle 83 Dream Team Points

* M. Evans 2 goals 26 disposals 11 kicks 15 handballs 4 marks 4 tackles 103 Dream Team Points

* J. Fitzpatrick 1 goal disposals 11 kicks 7 handballs 7 marks 23 hit outs 98 Dream Team Points

* A. Georgiou 15 disposals 7 kicks 8 handballs 2 marks 4 tackles 51 Dream Team Points

* J. Harmes 16 disposals 6 kicks 10 handballs 4 marks 1 tackles 45 Dream Team Points

* J. Hunt 2 behinds 12 disposals 6 kicks 6 handballs 2 marks 1 tackle 39 Dream Team Points

* D. Kent 1 goal 1 behind 28 disposals 18 kicks 10 handballs 6 marks 1 tackle 1 hit out 101 Dream Team Points

* J. McKenzie 30 disposals 12 kicks 18 handballs 5 marks 6 tackles 108 Dream Team Points

* V. Michie 2 behinds 31 disposals 18 kicks 13 handballs 7 marks 1 tackle 108 Dream Team Points

* D. Nicholson 1 goal 26 disposals 9 kicks 17 handballs 6 marks 4 tackles 102 Dream Team Points

* J. Strauss 20 disposals 13 kicks 7 handballs 6 marks 2 tackles 79 Dream Team Points

* L. Tapscott 1 behind 23 disposals 16 kicks 7 handballs 7 marks 84 Dream Team Points

[Satyriconhome 10,877]

It is patently obvious why his comments were out of line. It went beyond a "spray". He publicly ridiculed them for sooking it up over not getting picked.

What the conduct of tigers supporters has to do with anything, I don't know. They are infamous for their extremes in behaviour. If you're suggesting from your high chair that demon supporters are as volatile as tiger supporters, I would disagree.

Your comments on Neeld are a laugh. You vehemently defended him to the hilt, right up until him being sacked, and gave everyone who questioned his methods your usual fanboy routine.

Re Pedersen, who has claimed they "always knew he was a good player"? I've seen comments admitting they underestimated his value. Praising Roos for getting the best out of him. Etc etc. I haven't seen any claiming they always knew he was good.

You live in this delusional world where everyone here is irrational and you're the only one with your head screwed on. When will you get it into your head that this is a forum for people capable of critical thought. Not a 24/7 cheer squad.

Then you can disagree, I have sat with MFC supporters and been utterly disgusted with the behaviour towards their own players, you get it in print on here, so please don't lecture me.

As you have so sanctimoniously reiterated this is a public forum, so therefore I am entitled to my opinion as well, if you don't like it, you just have to wear it, like I have to wear everybody else's opinion, if I don't agree I speak up, again I have a right to, who made you sheriff?

As for the Pedersen claims, "comments admitting they undestimated his value", you mean he is not a list clogging spud anymore, right?

[P-man 13,366]

Believe it or not, I also attend games so am not restricted to what I read on here. Amazing, I know.

I've never called him a "list clogging spud", but there was a lot of evidence to point towards him being a list clogger. He was useless under Neeld.

Would a lesser coach have been able to extract it out of Pedo? Doubtful. But he's clearly worked hard and is following instruction to the letter, so good on him. Seems a nice guy too.

You are incapable of criticising players.

You are incapable of being able to distinguish between critique and abuse.

Others are not.

[rpfc 28,417]

I don't need to google, it is a skill that a lot of the posters on here have, enables them to sit back and say "well deep down I always knew Cam Pedersen was a good player"

Well, that's nonsense.

Foresight was on here from people like Grand New Flag who were telling you all was not right last year - and not only did you spurn him and others - you attacked them in the very way you see yourself being 'attacked' right now.

This was about the time you were talking about 'training form' and all that and trying to convince Land that all was right when it plainly wasn't.

Then you shift gears like The Stig when Neeld was given the boot. Have some self-reflection.

[Satyriconhome 10,877]

Believe it or not, I also attend games so am not restricted to what I read on here. Amazing, I know.

I've never called him a "list clogging spud", but there was a lot of evidence to point towards him being a list clogger. He was useless under Neeld.

Would a lesser coach have been able to extract it out of Pedo? Doubtful. But he's clearly worked hard and is following instruction to the letter, so good on him. Seems a nice guy too.

You are incapable of criticising players.

You are incapable of being able to distinguish between critique and abuse.

Others are not.

Obviously and as per the norm, you wilfully misinterpreted what I post, I have criticised the MFC players who didn't perform in the second half of the game that is supposedly the subject of this post, couldn't quite grasp that then, out of character for me, ruin your whole tirade.

I posted that I agreed with what Welsh said, these are players that are supposed to be interested in playing for the AFL side so therefore in the second half you would expect them to lift and dominate a team that they had dominated for a half, they didn't, the lack of grunt in the last quarter really disappointed me,

I even told Jordie McKenzie to his face last night on how disappointed I was with the 'team' effort in the last quarter, but i am actually looking forward to seeing Brett Allison's take on the game, perhaps I got it wrong

Let me think "list clogging spud' oh that's right it is a constructive criticism

[Roger Mellie 4,023]

As you have so sanctimoniously reiterated

lol

Dude, you have the sanctimony market all wrapped up

[Satyriconhome 10,877]

lol

Dude, you have the sanctimony market all wrapped up

Oh look another poster, hiding behind a keyboard taking a potshot, how very very brave of you, anything constructive towards the topic, on past history probably not