Training - Wednesday 27th November, 2013

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Who are Hawthorn's outside mids?

Hill and Smith. Their two outside runners who get a game every week because of this very reason. They break the lines.

Edited November 27, 2013 by stevethemanjordan

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

Can you please take a set of scales and a tape measure with you to training, thanks.

...I know I can get 'close' to the players but that might be a bit too much haha.......I am still always surprised when I do get next to them to actually see the build on some.......Michie and Tyson' s photos do not lie, they are solid, Vince is 'smaller' than I thought, reminded me of Aaron Davey's build, Evans, Kent, Clisby and Barry are obviously starting to build the AFL body, whatever that is, of the newbies JKH has a really nice compact buid

[hardtack 10,127]

Understandable, but the old coaching and board are still nothing to do with the set up we have at the moment.

but i also think it is clear through the draft this year that no other club was willing to take him highlights why he wasnt playing afl games. if we dropped a player like toumpas or matt jones or jordie mckenzie they would most definitely be sought out by other clubs and that is why he didnt get a game.

i still dont agree that a player should feel aggrieved due to the coaching staff not thinking he was ticking all the right boxes to get a game at a club?

But by all reports, he did seem to be doing just that and the fact that he was 4th in the Casey best and fairest would tend to support that. Anyway, mine is just one man's opinion and the world won't end because of it :-)

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

But by all reports, he did seem to be doing just that and the fact that he was 4th in the Casey best and fairest would tend to support that. Anyway, mine is just one man's opinion and the world won't end because of it :-)

That is Magner's 'problem', his phone is probably already ringing, he is a very good VFL player, he just couldn't quite bridge the gap....have watched him at both levels quite a lot

[nutbean 8,837]

Whilst the lack of communication may be true, i also feel that magner was exaggerating a situation in order to poorly represent the MFC coaching panel and provide himself with his best oppourtunity to play at another club.

Just because he was praised by a line coach for providing defensive pressure in a game, does not mean that it was not still the issue with what he needed to improve and why he stayed at casey for so long.

i disagree, there needs to be a mix of both, obviously skill on the outside is vital, but the days were players are able to roam outside packs and wait for the handball recieve are over. Gut running in order to re recieve after clearing is a vital skill midfielders need and is highlighted through players like Trent Cotchin, Patrick Dangerfield and even Marc Murphy

Magner is not the only one to question the dysfunction of the coaching structure - I think our results are testament to the competency and the stalled development of so many also highlights the issue that messages were not being translated.

As to inside/outside - these days there are no pure inside or outside footballers but certainly the productivity of a Toumpas will lift when we have some harder in and under types getting the ball out from the clearances. Toumpas was not recruited as a clearance specialist.

[Demon3 2,541]

I went and watched training yesterday, have not done that for a long time, really enjoyed it. couple of things for what its worth.

I really thought jack Trengove moved well, really well, looked like he was running ontop of the ground.

Hogan moves well, and looks like he has been at the club for ages, comfortable, good signs.

and Roosy just looks at home out there, vocal, encouraging.. commanding.

[Swooper 251]

All the talk about Toumpas' inside vs outside ability, it was interesting to see probably his best game against Geelong in the wet - a real in close affair. In close in nature but not close in any other way!

[Hannibal 5,814]

EVERYBODY had Toumpas in the top 5, that's how he was 'hyped' into there

I'm well aware he was pegged top 5 by all and sundry, but unless you're privy to all of the AFL clubs ratings you wouldn't know where others had him.

He has aspects of his game that clearly need improving if he's ever to become an A grade mid. I'm sure he and the club will do all that needs to be done for him to realise his potential.

[Biffen 12,372]

Looks like there are a few happy faces which is nice to see.

Neeld was such a grouch all the time and had zero personality which must have made for a terrible workplace.

[Young Dee 1,303]

Thanks 666!

- Wow is Evans a good size now (could be a big improver in 2014 if he stays on the track)

- Garland has also put on some size and is no longer that skinny lanky shape

- Watts still needs to put on a bit more muscle.... just take your time.........oh wait you already are!

I think we can genuinely say that apart from the new draftees we look like a real football team.

The players that I will be watching closely over this preseason are:

Tyson: expect big things from this kid and quickly too.

Trengove: almost gave up on this kid (if he can find his speed/strength this preseason then he will be a totally different player)

Evans: love his new body - has never really had an injury free run (not sure where he would fit in though - might need to improve his kicking but could be an inside/outside mid)

Watts: If midfield doesn't work out for him then he is in a bit of trouble - needs to dig deep and grow some balls over the preseason if he is any chance but if he does he could be great.

Strauss: always had a soft spot for him - think we need a classy rebounding backman and he is the most obvious prospect (think he was a very unlucky last year - finally got a game then got injured)

Toumpas: similar to Trengove (could be a totally different player with a full preseason and a new midfield so he can play his outside role)

Barry/Kennedy-Harris: interesting to see how these guys develop

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I'm well aware he was pegged top 5 by all and sundry, but unless you're privy to all of the AFL clubs ratings you wouldn't know where others had him.

He has aspects of his game that clearly need improving if he's ever to become an A grade mid. I'm sure he and the club will do all that needs to be done for him to realise his potential.

Evans seems to be a lot bigger this year, judging by the photos have you noticed how he's been training?

[Fat Tony 4,465]

I don’t see Toumpas ever developing into a big contested ball winner, so he needs to be quick and skillful. It is the pace element that worries me, so it is good to hear he is moving well.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Hill and Smith. Their two outside runners who get a game every week because of this very reason. They break the lines.

Breaking the lines might be their primary role or strength but they both get just under 30% contested possession.

As others have said you need to have a strong game in and out in the modern game.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Evans seems to be a lot bigger this year, judging by the photos have you noticed how he's been training?

It's all an optical illusion because of his tremendously masculine moustache. He's actually much skinnier than last year.

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

I'm well aware he was pegged top 5 by all and sundry, but unless you're privy to all of the AFL clubs ratings you wouldn't know where others had him.

He has aspects of his game that clearly need improving if he's ever to become an A grade mid. I'm sure he and the club will do all that needs to be done for him to realise his potential.

How do you think that happens, journalists, AFL media etc all talk to the recruiters, that's how we knew we were either going with Salem or Freeman at 9 this year, same as last year if Toumpas was there we had to take him at 4, that's were everybody rated him

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Thanks 666!

- Wow is Evans a good size now (could be a big improver in 2014 if he stays on the track)

- Garland has also put on some size and is no longer that skinny lanky shape

- Watts still needs to put on a bit more muscle.... just take your time.........oh wait you already are!

I think we can genuinely say that apart from the new draftees we look like a real football team.

The players that I will be watching closely over this preseason are:

Tyson: expect big things from this kid and quickly too.

Trengove: almost gave up on this kid (if he can find his speed/strength this preseason then he will be a totally different player)

Evans: love his new body - has never really had an injury free run (not sure where he would fit in though - might need to improve his kicking but could be an inside/outside mid)

Watts: If midfield doesn't work out for him then he is in a bit of trouble - needs to dig deep and grow some balls over the preseason if he is any chance but if he does he could be great.

Strauss: always had a soft spot for him - think we need a classy rebounding backman and he is the most obvious prospect (think he was a very unlucky last year - finally got a game then got injured)

Toumpas: similar to Trengove (could be a totally different player with a full preseason and a new midfield so he can play his outside role)

Barry/Kennedy-Harris: interesting to see how these guys develop

I just asked the question of Evans on the training thread, I couldn't believe how big his body is compared to when he first came across.

If he hasn't lost his pace and can kick a bit better he could be anything. The other side of the coin is, how much of our players bad disposal was caused by the lack of options to kick to?

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

It's all an optical illusion because of his tremendously masculine moustache. He's actually much skinnier than last year.

Hey lay off the moustache!, I told him it was Ron Jeremyesque, now there's a name to Google if you don't already know

He has bulked up considerably, think the realisation has hit them all that Roos likes BIG

[old dee 22,945]

I just asked the question of Evans on the training thread, I couldn't believe how big his body is compared to when he first came across.

If he hasn't lost his pace and can kick a bit better he could be anything. The other side of the coin is, how much of our players bad disposal was caused by the lack of options to kick to?

IMO Robbie not a lot the majority of the poor kicks are just that poor kicks

[Dee Fan 3,247]

It's all an optical illusion because of his tremendously masculine moustache. He's actually much skinnier than last year.

That's what it is, I wondered what the difference was.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

IMO Robbie not a lot the majority of the poor kicks are just that poor kicks

Come on OD, always look on the bright side of life.

Bet you broke in to song in your mind then.

[Hannibal 5,814]

When you've got a team with the worst midfield in the comp, (us last year) a player like Toumpas in his first year will clearly standout for his lack of contested ball winning ability. Especially when you're drafted at the same time as Jack Viney.

You're missing the point. Toumpas contested ball winning percentages were too low at junior level. Recruiters like 30% to be a minimum benchmark and Toumpas was the lowest of all highly ranked mids at 22. Cale Morton was another from his year that was very low in contested ball winning ability. This year it was Aish and interestingly he slipped out of the top 3 where he'd comfortably sat all year. And I'd say he fell due to his poor contested ball winning percentage.

We need Toumpas to hurt on the outside with his beautifully weighted passes and to also win contested footy. It's an area he needs to improve. He knows it and the coaches know it.

[Hannibal 5,814]

How do you think that happens, journalists, AFL media etc all talk to the recruiters, that's how we knew we were either going with Salem or Freeman at 9 this year, same as last year if Toumpas was there we had to take him at 4, that's were everybody rated him

Like Aish was pegged top 3 all year, but went at 7 ?

Despite your assertions we don't know where everyone rated Toumpas.

[Young Dee 1,303]

I just asked the question of Evans on the training thread, I couldn't believe how big his body is compared to when he first came across.

If he hasn't lost his pace and can kick a bit better he could be anything. The other side of the coin is, how much of our players bad disposal was caused by the lack of options to kick to?

Yes good point - the lack of spread has been appalling.

However I think spread and defensive running come back to gut running and that's where the problem lies.

When you are 30-50 points down and you know your going to lose there is no such thing as gut running.

Once the team gets hope back and we think we can win a game: gut running - defensive running and spread will come and that will make kicking 10 times easier.

When we have gone forward in the past there has never been a clear option and there is a whole lot of second guessing, kicking long and hand balling backward, panicking etc.

Having said that I still think our kicking as a team is poor.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Young Dee

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I just asked the question of Evans on the training thread, I couldn't believe how big his body is compared to when he first came across.

If he hasn't lost his pace and can kick a bit better he could be anything. The other side of the coin is, how much of our players bad disposal was caused by the lack of options to kick to?

Nail - head.

Those who bemoan our disposal out of the backline need to consider this also. Our ability to provide decent options for the man with the ball has been deplorable for years.

Edited November 28, 2013 by jabberwocky

[H_T 2,941]

Enjoy:-

Training Pics: 27/11/2013 = = > http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/34372514_SC45NH

Training pics: 06/11/2013 = = > http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/Training-20131106/33265265_VPpv7Q#!i=2887448292&k=VHKJM7r&lb=1&s=A

Thanks for the pics, great work 666.