Dees v Toigs top draft picks since 2006

[Its Time for Another 4,088]

2006 James Frawley(12) v Jack Riewoldt(13)

2007 Cale Morton (4) v Trent Cotchin (2)

2008 Jack Watts (1) v Tyrone Vickery(8),

2009 Tom Scully (1)/Jessie Hogan(Compo pick for Scully) v Dustin Martin(3)

2010 Lucas Cook (12) v Reece Conca(6)

2011 Mitch Clark (Traded 12) v Brandon Ellis(15)

2012 Jimmy Toumpas (4) v Nick Vlastuin(9)

Since 2006 up until the past two seasons, I've always seen the Tigers as a benchmark for our progress. I kept penciling in those games as wins. It's the perfect comparison of where we should have been. This list of the top draft picks from each club since 2006 makes for a very interesting comparison. Except for 2010 we've had higher picks every year. They haven't picked a dud. We've picked two, Morton and Lucas. Frawley is really the only one of our 7 picks who has gone on to establish himself as arguably an elite player. Tigers have Riewoldt, Cotchin at that level and arguably Martin and Conca hitting that level inconsistently. We are almost certainly going to get a win out of getting Hogan with the compo pick for Scully, who has only proven to be a good player not a great player. Hopefully by the end of 2014 Watts and Clark will have had elite seasons, Hogan at the end of his first season will have shown he will be there shortly and Toumpas will be well on the way. It gives you an idea of why we are so far behind the Tigers when we should have been ahead by now. Of course this list is only first picks. There are a lot of other picks after these that haven't developed in our system yet but their Tiger equivalents are a long way ahead. Two dud picks isn't the end of the world and with a better system of development under Roos over the summer I can't help but feel that with the expected rate of improvement, 2014 should be the year that a bunch of players on our list and in this group finally start delivering on their promise.

Edited November 12, 2013 by It's Time

[Bang Bang Bang 5,779]

Frawley and Riewoldt are about on a par (Riewoldt probably slightly ahead because he's a match-winner, not a match-saver)

Cotchin was picked before Morton

Lost a lot of faith in Watts this year but would still take him ahead of Vickery

Martin is a gun player but offered himself to every other club and not one took a bite. Went crawling back to Richmond. Join the dots.

Conca was taken before Cook and to call him elite in any context is a stretch.

I do actually agree with your sentiments though - recently they've picked pure footballers over athletes - learning from the Fiora, Tambling and Oakley-Nicholls disasters from years gone by. We need to start doing the same. A Freeman, Sheed, Dunstan, Crouch type should be our first pick this year. Pure footballers. Not some skinny kid that tested well at the combine.

[Little Richard 6,216]

Jeez we did well in 2007.

The only year I think we come close to them is 2006 with Frawley and Riewoldt. The others have been rubbish, though we'll win out eventually with Toumpas vs Vlastuin.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Django

[Carlos Danger 380]

2006 James Frawley(12) v Jack Riewoldt(13)
Frawley has been a far better pick.

2007 Cale Morton (4) v Trent Cotchin (2)
Goes without saying.

2008 Jack Watts (1) v Tyrone Vickery(8),
Hard to judge, pretty much a line-ball. But considering they got Vick with pick 8 and we over-looked Naitanui with pick 1, that's a win for Richmond.

2009 Tom Scully (1)/Jessie Hogan(Compo pick for Scully) v Dustin Martin(3)
Hogan shouldn't come into this and on top of that it wasn't a straight swap for the Scully compo. Easy win to Richmond, Martin has been a whole lot more of a player than either Scully or Trengove at this stage.

2010 Lucas Cook (12) v Reece Conca(6)
Goes without saying.

2011 Mitch Clark (Traded 12) v Brandon Ellis(15)
Injury and economy wise so far it's a big no. But a fully fit Clark would make a way bigger difference to any side than Ellis ever could.

2012 Jimmy Toumpas (4) v Nick Vlastuin(9)
Too early to call. Vlastuin was always destined to hit the big-time running but the ceiling is a whole hell of a lot higher on Toumpas.

[Its Time for Another 4,088]

Jeez we did well in 2007.

The only year I think we come close to them is 2006 with Frawley and Riewoldt. The others have been rubbish, though we'll win out eventually with Toumpas vs Vlastuin.

I have confidence Watts will still end up being better than Vickery. Hogan will be a better player than Martin, although Martin looks like he will be better than Scully. A fit Clark better than Brandon Ellis. And so they should be as they are all higher picks. But shows there should be major improvement coming out of this list very shortly.

[Its Time for Another 4,088]

2006 James Frawley(12) v Jack Riewoldt(13)

Frawley has been a far better pick.

2007 Cale Morton (4) v Trent Cotchin (2)

Goes without saying.

2008 Jack Watts (1) v Tyrone Vickery(8),

Hard to judge, pretty much a line-ball. But considering they got Vick with pick 8 and we over-looked Naitanui with pick 1, that's a win for Richmond.

2009 Tom Scully (1)/Jessie Hogan(Compo pick for Scully) v Dustin Martin(3)

Hogan shouldn't come into this and on top of that it wasn't a straight swap for the Scully compo. Easy win to Richmond, Martin has been a whole lot more of a player than either Scully or Trengove at this stage.

2010 Lucas Cook (12) v Reece Conca(6)

Goes without saying.

2011 Mitch Clark (Traded 12) v Brandon Ellis(15)

Injury and economy wise so far it's a big no. But a fully fit Clark would make a way bigger difference to any side than Ellis ever could.

2012 Jimmy Toumpas (4) v Nick Vlastuin(9)

Too early to call. Vlastuin was always destined to hit the big-time running but the ceiling is a whole hell of a lot higher on Toumpas.

I would agree at this stage Vickery is a win over Watts because he has done what they drafted him to do which is to be a key forward target and second ruckman whereas Watts hasn't been a key forward. However, Watts has done much more in of his outstanding games including the one against the Swans last year. He is way more versatile and you can't compare their skills. Hopefully he will find his role next year and prove me right long term, if he doesn't by the end of next season I will officially mark him as a fail for a pick 1.

[Dr. Mubutu 784]

2009 Tom Scully (1)/Jessie Hogan(Compo pick for Scully) v Dustin Martin(3)

Hogan shouldn't come into this and on top of that it wasn't a straight swap for the Scully compo. Easy win to Richmond, Martin has been a whole lot more of a player than either Scully or Trengove at this stage.

You're right, it also got us Chris Dawes and Dom Barry.

[rpfc 28,075]

You don't have to compare us to the Tigers to know we have not picked well in the draft (with exceptions) from 2001. I am going back further than 2006 because players taken in the previous 5 years to that would be 25 - 30 years old right now and players in that age group would be important to any team to say the least...

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

You're right, it also got us Chris Dawes and Dom Barry.

no Dawes cost us pick 20

but yeah its Hogan+Barry for Scully vs Martin

i'll take ours

[Machsy 2,858]

Yep, waste of time doing another past draft analysis of MFC's choices.

Every supporter knows we have serially underperformed in the draft for a long time.

[rpfc 28,075]

no Dawes cost us pick 20

but yeah its Hogan+Barry for Scully vs Martin

i'll take ours

Pick 4 and 14 for Scully.

Pick 3 and 14 to GWS for Hogan, Barry and 20.

Pick 20 and 47 for Dawes and 61.

Pick 61 and Gysberts for Pedersen and Pick 72.

What a weird mess this is...

Scully and 47 brought us Hogan, Barry, Dawes, Pedersen and an unused Pick 72.

It's a big win even with the 'Pedersen as Albatross' dross that posters love to regurgitate.

[old dee 23,528]

Pick 4 and 14 for Scully.

Pick 3 and 14 to GWS for Hogan, Barry and 20.

Pick 20 and 47 for Dawes and 61.

Pick 61 and Gysberts for Pedersen and Pick 72.

What a weird mess this is...

Scully and 47 brought us Hogan, Barry, Dawes, Pedersen and an unused Pick 72.

It's a big win even with the 'Pedersen as Albatross' dross that posters love to regurgitate.

I have rationalised that Pedersen was a swap for Gysberts who was next to useless so we have a draw there.

Pedersen will be helpful in our relationship with Casey over the next two years so we are marginally in front.

[beelzebub 23,242]

I have rationalised that Pedersen was a swap for Gysberts who was next to useless so we have a draw there.

Pedersen will be helpful in our relationship with Casey over the next two years so we are marginally in front.

we're working to fine margins though here Old....mighty fine !!

[old dee 23,528]

we're working to fine margins though here Old....mighty fine !!

bb I am trying hard to convince myself we did not lose on that deal.

Please don't make me reconsider !

[Its Time for Another 4,088]

You don't have to compare us to the Tigers to know we have not picked well in the draft (with exceptions) from 2001. I am going back further than 2006 because players taken in the previous 5 years to that would be 25 - 30 years old right now and players in that age group would be important to any team to say the least...

You're right. For what it's worth.

2001 Luke Molan (9)

2002 Daniel Bell (14)

2003 Colin Sylvia (3)

2004 Matthew Bate (13)

2005 Nathan Jones (12)

2006 James Frawley (12)

[TGR 1,367]

You're right, it also got us Chris Dawes and Dom Barry.

Didn't Collingwood pick Brodie Grundy with the Dawes pick?

That looks like being a bloody good get for them. Having said that, this club probably needed the Dawes leadership/mindset; but Buckley is already convinced with Grundy.

[Machsy 2,858]

Pretty sure It was Broomhead with 20, and pies had picks 18, 19 & 20, so would've had Grundy either way.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Machsy

[Little Richard 6,216]

I have confidence Watts will still end up being better than Vickery. Hogan will be a better player than Martin, although Martin looks like he will be better than Scully. A fit Clark better than Brandon Ellis. And so they should be as they are all higher picks. But shows there should be major improvement coming out of this list very shortly.

As we of all supporters know, there is a big difference between what a player 'might be' and what a player is actually producing now.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

A comparison with North over that same period, I expect, would be just as unflattering.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You're right. For what it's worth.

2001 Luke Molan (9)

2002 Daniel Bell (14)

2003 Colin Sylvia (3)

2004 Matthew Bate (13)

2005 Nathan Jones (12)

2006 James Frawley (12)

You should add Nick Smith and Lynden Dunn taken at pick 15 in 2002 and 2004.

Our drafting has been part of the problem.

The other issues has been our failure until recently to rookie and develop an effective ruckman.

And our trading........

Paul Johnson, Byron Pickett, John Meesen and Ben Holland hardly set the world on fire and were poor choices for what we needed.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

A comparison with North over that same period, I expect, would be just as unflattering.

A comparison with any other club would elicit the same outcome.

[Guest]

Depressing reading this...
However, while not wanting a whitewash of the past, things hopefully are different now and we should look forward to a brighter future and not dwell on a horrible, horrible past. I personally believe when we do this, we set ourselves up for a(nother) fall. What will happen is that if the current regime begins to struggle, we will not see things as they are. We will look back at Neeld's era and say how far they had to start behind the eight ball rather than assessing the Roos regime on what they are actually doing. You might say poppycock but I have seen this happen twice before (Bailey: ND left a disaster behind Neeld: DB left a mess behind).

I look forward to what we snag in the next draft under our new leadership and I will be judging them (for better or worse) on what they produce, not what was left for them to work with.

[rpfc 28,075]

Demons lose Picks 5, 32, and 47 spread over the 1999 and 2000 drafts for Salary Cap breaches.

Demons select Luke Molan, Steven Armstrong and Aaron Rodgers with Picks 9, 25 and 26 in 2001.

Demons select Daniel Bell and Nick Smith with Picks 14 and15 in 2002.

Demons trade Pick 21 for Ben Holland in 2003.

Demons turn Darren Jolly, Scott Thompson, Picks 13 and 29 into Matthew Bate, Lynden Dunn, Brent Moloney, and Paul Johnson in 2004.

Demons trade Picks 28 and 44 for Byron Pickett in 2005.

Demons select Cale Morton and Addam Maric with Picks 4 and 21 and trade Pick 38 for John Meesen in 2007.

Demons select Sam Blease, James Strauss, and Jamie Bennell with Picks 17, 19, and 35 in 2008.

Demons trade Brock McLean for Pick 11 and select Jordan Gysberts and select Luke Tapscott with Pick 18 in 2009.

Demons lose Cameron Bruce and James McDonald prematurely and select Lucas Cook with Pick 12 in 2010.

These are the bylines to our mysery.

And it spans Boards and Coaches, almost generations...

And it still hurts. Geelong is still fuelled by the drafts of 1999 and 2000. Scott Thompson would be capain of the club should fate have been different.

You can keep looking for blame and assigning it to whomever but there is so much to go around that it becomes irrelevant.

This club is not big enough to get out the torches again. There is no satisfaction in shooting yourself deliberately in the foot.

You want this club to be great again?

Forgive some Demons and get over it.

I wrote this in another thread.

Our drafting is why we are here but acknowledging failure and moving on is the healthiest thing to do.

[Its Time for Another 4,088]

Depressing reading this...

However, while not wanting a whitewash of the past, things hopefully are different now and we should look forward to a brighter future and not dwell on a horrible, horrible past. I personally believe when we do this, we set ourselves up for a(nother) fall. What will happen is that if the current regime begins to struggle, we will not see things as they are. We will look back at Neeld's era and say how far they had to start behind the eight ball rather than assessing the Roos regime on what they are actually doing. You might say poppycock but I have seen this happen twice before (Bailey: ND left a disaster behind Neeld: DB left a mess behind).

I look forward to what we snag in the next draft under our new leadership and I will be judging them (for better or worse) on what they produce, not what was left for them to work with.

It's ended up being another massive clean out. 14 last year and I think 13 this year. Surely most of the cleaning out has been done and the rump that is left over from the old list has some real quality in it. Roosy certainly thinks so. So the proof will be in the pudding, so to speak. There is also an element of risk in every traded player this year as well.