Cameron Schwab now writes for the Age.

[Machsy 2,858]

Skeletor reference?

Close thread!

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

^{Hindsight may show that perversely Schwab was the CEO we had to have. Something had to happen to drag this club kicking and screaming to play 21st Century football. Bringing the club to the brink has woken everyone up. The ingrained smugness and wallowing in past glories was never going to go away on its own accord.}

This would seem to the Mouse that Roared strategy. Duchy of Grand Fenwick decides that the only way to get out of their economic woes is to declare war on the United States, lose and accept foreign aid (we likwise with the AFL instead of the US providing funds) they send an invasion force to New York (armed with longbows / low draft pick spuds / tanking) which arrives during a nuclear drill that has cleared the streets (here the analogy is not quite so strong). Wandering about to find someone to surrender to, they discover a scientist with a special ultimate weapon that can destroy the Earth. When they capture him and his bomb they are faced with a new possibility: What do you do when you win a war? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053084/ In our case unfortunately the scientist was dealing in drugs and went to Essendon

[Sir Why You Little 36,748]

He doesn't know the game 'wyl', he talks a good game and that's all.

I believe he does know the game, thats the crux of what i am saying. What he knows and what he overssaw were diametrically opposed!! Which is probably why the outcome was so bad. There was no other outcome except utter failure.

I don't think for a minute he set out to kill the club.

No, but those on the board after 186 have a lot to answer for.

[old dee 23,558]

I believe he does know the game, thats the crux of what i am saying. What he knows and what he overssaw were diametrically opposed!! Which is probably why the outcome was so bad. There was no other outcome except utter failure.

I don't think for a minute he set out to kill the club.

No, but those on the board after 186 have a lot to answer for.

I have said this elsewhere wyl but I often wonder what would have happened if the board had held their nerve that week of 186.

I believe it was Big Jim that blinked first and the sheep followed

[Bitter but optimistic 22,136]

I have said this elsewhere wyl but I often wonder what would have happened if the board had held their nerve that week of 186.

I believe it was Big Jim that blinked first and the sheep followed

Well OD, we may not have suffered the total FU that was the Neeld era

[PJ_12345 1,098]

No, we were placed with the first rebuild to be ahead of the expansion clubs. The management of the club was so poor that it dumped us right in the middle of the problems caused by their introduction.

He doesn't know the game 'wyl', he talks a good game and that's all.

Expansion clubs are a big apart of the equation 'rjay', as well as Schwab.

Yes we started rebuilding before their introduction and had three top 5 draft picks over 2008 and 2009 including three priority picks (disregarding the fact that ultimately one gets taken by an expansion club).

But its also important to remember that GCS and GWS had a serious amount of draft concessions which didn't help in that in 2010 and 2011 we did not have any top 10 draft picks (compared to GCS who had 6 and CWS who had 8 top 10 picks). Hell even Brisbane had 2 top 10 draft picks during that period!

For what its worth and a bit of a tangent, this is my equation:

Tades/Delisting/Retirement of experienced players from 2008 to 2010 (total of 1,507 games experience)

+ Extremely poor draft choices (Gysberts @ #11, Blease & PP @ #16, Cook @ #12, Tapscott @ #18, Watts @ #1)

+ Lack of top 20 draft picks in 2010 and 2011 & GWS and GCS concessions taking alot of draft talent & $cully

+ Poor administration (appointing Schwab, coaches, Board's extension of Schwab's contract)

+ Bad coaches (Bailey and Neeld)

+ Bad player attitude, effort and performance

+ Bad list management (Jamar, Pedersen contracts)

+ Bad luck (Wonna/Jurrah, EnergyWatch, and Jim)

= why the MFC is so bad

However, you could also expand this and include:

- Good recruiting (Dawes, Clark)

- Good list management (Gysberts, Bennell, Morton, Cook gone)

- Good new CEO

- Good player development (Clisby, Terlich, Magner, Fitzy/Spencer)

And hopefully:

- Good recruiting (Toupmas, Hogan, and whoever we get his year)

- Good player development (better fitness through Misson's 3 year plan)

- Good coaching (Paul Roos)

- Better player attitude, effort and performance

Edited October 9, 2013 by PJ_12345

[rjay 24,687]

Expansion clubs are a big apart of the equation 'rjay', as well as Schwab.

They are now because of Schwab and co. I reckon they will effect Richmonds chances at winning a flag with their current group. We along with North were seen as being a year ahead of the Tiges. Well we didn't fire a shot and have been really screwed by the expansion clubs, North are a much better chance than the Tiges, they might just get there.

I believe he does know the game, thats the crux of what i am saying. What he knows and what he overssaw were diametrically opposed!!

Won't ever agree with you on this 'wyl', I think he thinks he knows the game but his meddling has shown me he way over rates his ability in this area. What he oversaw is what he delivered on what he knew, sweet.... He's conned you mate.

[Sir Why You Little 36,748]

Won't ever agree with you on this 'wyl', I think he thinks he knows the game but his meddling has shown me he way over rates his ability in this area. What he oversaw is what he delivered on what he knew, sweet.... He's conned you mate.

i know what you are saying rjay, we are on the same page.

Let me rephrase...Schwab knows the theories. His actions were the opposite!

I am just going on what i heard from the SEN Podcast. He was was not talking rubbish.

What he DELIVERED as our CEO was.

He had me conned until the week before 186...remember when Brad Green got interviewed?

That's when i knew the sh!t was going to hit the fan.

It was worse.

[deanox 9,791]

CBF Thanks for taking the time to write a so well measured and thought out response. It was a good read and offers some great insights. I imagine a lot of it is true to the mark, and I don't know enough to deny any of it nor do I think it is unreasonable. The only thing I would change is perhaps slant the view more towards "he was doing what he thought was right and was sanctioned by others" rather than "maniacal dictator trying to be the premiership coach". That being said I also think that his control freak kind of nature was probably the biggest problem, although this was exacerbated by us being a poor club with cheap and inexperienced football department resources who maybe did need some supervision (just not from the CEO). Again, I have no problem with criticism, I just don't see the need to treat him like the proverbial leper or tax collector.

A couple of particular thoughts on your post:

...

he was more interested in trying to find some way around the established system in order to succeed.

...

I don't think this is actually a bad thing, most clubs do. And I don't believe he was the sole evil genius pushing for is to lose games, I'm pretty sure that would have been a groupthink. Remember, other clubs did it, and until it went to shizen a few years later most observers thought we were on a good thing with a great list. Not many considered the effects of the lack of leadership at the time.

...

I generally view that stuff, whether it was conscious or subconscious, as a smoke screen to make the supporter group feel better and to decrease scrutiny on admin.

...

Again, I think a lot of what footy departments put out is a smoke screen at the best of times. Think Craig's play of the week, think he ever spoke real tactics?

...

Look, Cameron may have meant well but George W. Bush probably did as well. It doesn't lessen his culpability in the disasters that followed nor did it excuse him from the mistakes caused by his terrible judgement.

...

This is a perfect statement for me. He is responsible. But just as Bush could never be accused of being a great lover of his country, I don't think Schwab ever did anything that he didn't think was 100% right for the dees.

I don't think Schwab got any benefits out of his time or actions at Melbourne* (ie start a war, make money for your company).

I think he just wasnt successful.

*Without knowing the specifics I don't understand the issue people have with the loan - happens in private business all the time, and it may have been lower rates for him but it still would have been higher rates than we would have got in a bank. Happy to understand it better though, if anyone knows the true details.

Edited October 9, 2013 by deanox

[dees189227 12,299]

Schwab was a little to obsessed with our history and thought he could always fall back on us being the oldest club as something to show everyone what we stand for.

Lets face it he made 3 of the worst embarrassing decisions at the club. he had the players raising of our flag when we won games, had a bugular and made the players look like schoolboys with the blazers.

He had 2 cracks at being ceo of our club. I just really appreciate peter jackson

[Pirlo 813]

He was a [censored] CEO, but a good footy person.

His job was CEO, so therefore his time at the club was a failure.

Did you see him staring daggers at Neeld after round two?

[Hannibal 5,814]

Funny reading that thread. Curry was a fawning fanboy to old Schwabby.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

Funny reading that thread. Curry was a fawning fanboy to old Schwabby.

Under the alias of Hannabal, you made it your life's mission to personally attack anyone who dared criticise Cameron.

Your posting history is a litany of embarrassing positions.

You have some nerve making fun of Curry.

[Machsy 2,858]

Under the alias of Hazyshadeofgrinter, you made it your life's mission to personally attack anyone who dared praise Cameron.

Your posting history is a litany of embarrassing positions.

You have some nerve making fun of Hannabal.

See what I did there?

Good to see again, Hazy! x

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

See what I did there?

Good to see again, Hazy! x

Would you care to explain exactly what I am supposed to be embarrassed about?

I seem to recall being one of the very few voices of reason amongst the Schwab cheer squad on demonland. A cheer squad that was always far more willing to attack me personally than it was to address any of the points I raised.

I think history has proven me right but perhaps your skin is thick enough to persist with the Schwab apologia even now.

[Machsy 2,858]

To the best of my recollection Hazy, you always were 100% anti-Schwab... But you were never able to present a sound reasoning or evidence for why you took that stance.

After the event, everyone knew with hindsight that in some cases you were correct.

But at the time, either you struggled to articulate yourself or you were throwing darts in the dark.

The fact you were correct about the end result, but knew very little of the detail, tells me you chose a stance and held onto like a dog with a bone, but you had very little knowledge to justify it.

[Machsy 2,858]

But in any case: WGAF?

It's over.

We look to be in a better place now.

Can't we all just get along..?

CWAJGA??

[Sir Why You Little 36,748]

But in any case: WGAF?

It's over.

We look to be in a better place now.

Can't we all just get along..?

CWAJGA??

Eck Eck

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

you were correct

It clearly hurt you to say it but you got there in the end.

I have been accused of a lot of things on this site but struggling to articulate myself is a new one.

You don't get to make a painfully qualified concession accusing me of being inarticulate and throwing darts in the dark and then go on to ask why we can't all just get along.

Again, you can't back up your claims and still, you haven't explained what I am supposed to be embarrassed about.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Hazyshadeofgrinter

[Hannibal 5,814]

Under the alias of Hannabal, you made it your life's mission to personally attack anyone who dared criticise Cameron.

Your posting history is a litany of embarrassing positions.

You have some nerve making fun of Curry.

"Life's mission". You're funny. The only poster on here that has ever had a "mission" is you.

I just like people to back up statements. If they can't they get called out. Most get called out.

Why don't you ever talk about footy ? No doubt you're one of those interested political types who's clueless about the actual game. No wonder you've been quiet lately. No upheavals on the horizon.

If I've ever backed the wrong horse from a political sense then so be it. I usually give incumbents the benefit of the doubt until things are plainly arse about. No biggy. There are always flogs like yourself tap tap tapping away from their dark corners to keep everyone on their toes. It must be fun.

[Yossarian 1,820]

The best part of this thread was in the pudding.

[Guest]

The best part of this thread was in the pudding.

The only thing that could make the thread better is for Cameron to reappear and for all those who have bad mouthed him to grovel like fanboys again.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Funny reading that thread. Curry was a fawning fanboy to old Schwabby.

why is that funny

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 771]

i hope the Logo stays. I like it.

Glad the rest has happened.

Glad the rest has happened too and although I don't mind the emblem, I am missing the Demon logo.

[Biffen 12,937]

Schwab meant well,actually did a pretty good job, and ultimately failed due to a two year vendetta ran against him by a COAT from the Age.

The main thing is he got us that desk, Jordy Gysberts and Scully.

I dont like everything he did , but he managed to balance the books in a pretty dire time.

I wish him well in is new vocation and hope he can become chief football writer for the Age very shortly.